I called CCBILL and they said if the system is slow it should only take 30 minutes at the MOST.. Maybe a New Tech???

Bullshit nothings been touched...

Yes, it is.

anyone think it may be accidental? it just may be
nats is affiliate tracking not members as someone said earlier, and not always the most user friendly setup...

the way it works for anyone who has never done an install is that nats assigns a nats ID to affiliates that sign up through system... that ID gets passed to CCbill, ccbill, after the sale, will do a post back to the nats database to credit said affiliate with the nats code... NOT the ccbill code, the ccbill code normally is not used so affiliates do not get paid twice... yes, ccbill will set cookies, but the ref code passed is what gets sale. ref code of "0" as the company itself.

however... I have seen many people do stuff like this accidentally and most people will use seperate tours for both affiliate management systems or map ccbill codes to nats ID's.

if they are mapping nats ID to old ccbill code, it then may be fine

not takin sides here... just sayin maybe an accident if they just changed over and need to fix it... thats all... hate gettin involved in stuff like this... but just had to :)

So you're saying that a post to the ccbill join page can override the refid cookie set by refer.ccbill.com? The site owner can pass their own refid?

I don't really know about the passing of codes or any of this stuff. I just know that the test sale we ran didn't go through.

Maybe one of us missed something!
First of all, all that is offered on ashcash is CCBILL Signup and codes.
And here is where I get lost, if you go from ccbill to NATS, you dont have to signup on NATS? Some how the program owner can get ccbill to give all my info to them to import to NATS, so this program owner can send me a check, that I have no access to login, since I nver signed up to NATS?

Yes, programs do run Different TOURS for the different programs, but NOT switch it at the pre join page.

Maybe that is Something new that is being offered, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it...

which drama?

what I know... from quite a few setups is that they prevent double billing... if a ref code is passed by way of nats to ccbill, ccbill takes that code as the ref. and will post that info back to the systems nats database to credit the affiliate... if the code passed is "0"... that means... No affiliate..

If both held true...CCbill cookies and seperate ref code... then affiliate will be paid 2 times... 1 time by the nats system and once by ccbill. you can not have both... and from my experience the last code got it... which if "0" was passed would be the last code.

a nats install... assumes you will be paying affiliates yourself... you make checks. not biller. can not get paid from both

all I was saying is that I have seen it happen many times by mistake because someone missed a small thing in the install or just plain f'd it up

thats what I am sayin... you would need a nats code by signing up to nats, or it gets messed up because the wrong info gets posted back and no affiliates get paid... or that is how I know it to work... maybe they found some other way

As I already stated....

The NATS system is not in use for affiliates yet.... its doing some tracking and member managment only.

Here is a traffic flow layout....

Webmaster Site -> refer.ccbill.com
refer.ccbill.com sets Webmasters ID in an encrypted Cookie
refer.ccbill.com -> selected tour
tour pages -> join form on adultdimensions.com (NATS)
adultdimensions.com (NATS) sets some tracking Cookies
adultdimensions.com (NATS) -> CCBill Signup Form

The CCBill system can pickup the cookie data at any point during the process, it does not have to go into a form.

The tour pages can not modify the CCBill cookie.
The adultdimensions.com NATS system can not modify the CCBill cookie.

There is nothing "sneaky" going on, like Mutt would like you to believe, other then it was decided to implement some of the Nats stats and the Membership control system before openeing the full system.

Im a fair programmer, but I can't mess with other domains cookies unless they are using a browser I wrote... and last I looked Microsoft does not sign my checks.

And other then messing with the CCBill cookie, there is no way to hide from CCBill who the webmaster was....

This is the last I will post on this..

Ok, it's been 2 hours since mike69 was on the phone. Has there been any revelation?

On another note, why weren't affiliates informed that NATS had been installed and thus the tour and signup process had changed? We're probably the best people to find any problems and report them quickly. Keep your affiliates out of the loop and they're more likely to accuse you of wrongdoing.

I'm still on the fence myself, but it will only take about 30 seconds to remove all galleries. I very nearly did the last round of drama we had.

Mike69: you do need to post again, to explain why our refid's are being changed to "0"

Even if it's not your fault there needs to be a reason, and it needs to be fixed.

so what happens if cookies are not allowed by browser, deleted, etc... affiliate tracking, ccbill and nats use many ways to track... biggest is passing aff. code through the forms... all the way.. the ref. code should be in the source or it was never passed

Its because the ref ID is not being passed via a form from our servers...

Its being picked up by the CCBill system from the cookie...

Wouldn't it be nice. if CCBill used only a ref code passed from a signup page to track signups...

a script that changed the ref ID say every second hour (or any period you want) would be very simple to write... all program owner could just send a bunch of signups to non existant accounts when ever they felt like it....

And there you have it.

cookies are set for returning sales... not on the spot ones... thats why ref code is passed

Mike69, stop explaining how you think it works, and why what is happening is "impossible"... you have a problem, just get it fixed! 2 out of 3 times that I clicked from a freehosted gal to the join page my referer was changed. Those are not good odds, and I'm sure there are people reading this thread who are not quite as patient and tolerant as I am.

ccbill does pass the ref code... huh?

Please send the signup information by ICQ (695150).. I will look it up....

sorry forgot the quote... go read how tracking in ccbill works. cookies is about 1/4 of what is used.. they use ref codes passing, ref. urls, ip's etc.

many people do not allow cookies.

Ashley Brookes is with yet another program?????? Wow, that girl gets around.

fuck me! i'm seeing the join page refresh, Mike what is the deal man? i didnt get that email explaining anything to me! or did you not even send an email to affiliates?

Even if what Mike69 is saying in that thread is true, a ton of people block cookies

That's why they use the form-based method too, which they cleared out and set to their own ID basically

Even with his explanation, you're still loosing all signups for people who have cookies turned off

well I have them turned on, and the Test didnt work....

A lot of tech nerds don't allow them, you'd be surprised

well even windows security suggests to turn them off...

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh nice....

I don't promote that site and know nothing about the program, but it seems like a pretty convenient "glitch"...

I don't know if this happens EVERY time or not, someone from CCBill would have to chime in on that, but from a few quick tests *IF* a ccbill affiliate cookie has in fact been set, and said affiliate ID is a valid webmaster who has signed up to promote the paysite, then the affiliate ID# will usually show up on the join page. In other words, the join page will check to see IF an affiliate cookie has been set, and if so, it shows it like so:

<input type=hidden name=ccbill_referer value='XXXXXX'>

What usually happens when a valid affiliate ID is *not* set though, is that the ccbill_referer field just won't show up at all. So it won't show up as 0, it will be completely missing from the form.

What I don't know is, does it show the affiliate ID all the time? If the affiliate ID doesn't show on the join page, does that mean there is no way the affiliate will get credit? Does CCBill do a final check after the sale is complete? Again, these are questions someone at CCBill would have to answer.

After that little fiasco she pulled you are nuts to promote that flake.

<input type=hidden name=ccbill_referer value='*0'>

Still not fixed. I am suspending my links as of now.

why would they fix it? they're getting 100&#37; of the sales

I used to be her biggest afillate and she made me ok money
But it's one thing I have learnt is you cant deal with a flake I have better things to do with my traffic.

Ah yes, Nikki Nevada...

i swear that girl is poison - worst thing you could have done Mike is get involved with her. You know I am not that tech savvy and when I saw this setup a few days ago I did wonder since the initial click was getting registered with CCBILL why the affiliate ID wasn't being passed to CCBILL's signup page. If it doesn't get onto that page there simply is no way for the affiliate to get the credit.

BUT.......... you and her check stats, though knowing her laziness she probably doesn't, whether it's every day or every other day, you would have to notice in your stats that suddenly there was a significant drop in affiliate signups/payouts. I checked with Ryan at AmateurIndex when I was passed this information, he went and looked at his stats and he hadn't recorded a signup with AshCash since Jan 9th - this is an affiliate who i bet over the 2 years of her site is her #1 affiliate or close to it and they have always converted at 1:500 or better. And suddenly they are not getting anything - same with Phil Flash who I know would still be sending regular signups since he still has her banner up on his popular solo girl forum and probably in other spots in his network. You can't blame technical glitches at CCBILL or NATS for that - there was something very obvious going on with how this switch to NATS was going for her loyal CCBILL affiliates.

The best solution is to go through the stats for the past year and average out what affiliates were making and pay them for the lost revenue over the time this problem has existed.

I am not done with that girl - not by a long shot. I'm waiting until that ridiculous lawsuit filled with lies is over and done with.

i am forced to pull links right now, cant be having this shady-ness


speaking of shady sponsors, i advise to pull all bucks18 link aswell, they arent paying affiliates either

Bump! Bump! Bump!

So what happened with your CCBill phone call?
Why aren't affiliates being credited with sales?
How are all the affiliates lost / non credited sales going to be handled?

A bump for some answers!

ok, so, here is what I see from someone checking this who has nothin invested in this whatsoever, I don't promote her, but I am signed up from a long while ago through ccbill

I tried my link code, I see a click in the ccbill area....when I click on the join link I see the ccbill form for 1 second before it switches to the NATS form....how is a ccbill affiliate going to get credit for signing up through a nats form? ccbill has VERY specific join forms that you MUST use to get credit

here is some code from http://tour1.ashleybrookes.com/join.html which is the page you see briefly before being redirected to http://ab.adultdimensions.com/signup...MDowOjE&step=2

<META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh" content="0;URL=http://ab.adultdimensions.com/signup/signup.php?nats=MDowOjE&step=2">

something is fishy there, not right one bit, there is no reason to redirect a ccbill affiliate to a nats page, period...add on top of that it is an "adultdimensions" signup form even though the adultdimensions owners says she is still using ccbill for affiliates, then, well, that is a huge issue

Congratulations to Mutt! In my 3.5 years at this forum I've never seen someone own another person so badly.

http://www.pwnd.it/img/pwn/pwn34.jpg

They switched their join codes to their new nats system. They didn't plan on telling or fixing it for affiliates. It's a 100% instant shave and Mike knows it, so does everyone involved.

LOL, what a flake

I was thinking the same thing. Seems as though Mike can spin it all different ways, but the bottom line is none of her affiliates that promote her that I talked to have had a sale in a while and no test signups are getting credited. Looks like adultdimensions shot itself in the foot before its ever launched.

bump for a scammer

So Mike69 you care to share your REAL stats on Affiliate sales for the last few Months?

Bad move, to give this authorization! Do you really want people to find out what your affiliate sales have dropped to, and the Month they did???

Pulling all links and they won't be going back up when this "mess" is resolved either.

wheres that pic of the Iraqi Defense minister when you need it....

don't you guys use zango ?

Mike69,

You call yourself a "fair programmer", so the install of NATS, should be a cake walk for you!

CCBILL ---- I am sure you have been dealing with programming sites that use or deal with ccbill for years.

I am sure you understand the workings of cookies, browsers, codes, scripts, and so on.

Heck you wrote some well know software, that cleans peoples computers. (internet eraser) Now I just heard this, not sure, but I did find some good reads on GFY.

gfy.com/showthread.php?t=37099&highlight=internet+eraser (Michael Burns -- Head Programmer for Amateur Pages / Adult.com)

I would believe you know your way around ccbill stats very well. Sponsor and Affiliate Sides!

I would also think you would notice that your affiliate payouts dropped off, and would want to find out why!

Wait, if no one notices, why fix it?
Wait, If I refresh the browser, it makes the cookie almost impossible to get picked up, while running it through third party software.
Geez, if affiliates are not getting paid out with ccbill, and your or someone with ashcash is not writing checks, where is the money going?

That also brings up, ashcash.net ONLY has ccbill codes to signup on and promote, how convenient, since MOST of the cookies will not be picked up.

I know this only shows there is a Problem with running NATS and CCBILL on the same tours, But you would think a Smart guy like yourself might know these things...
Or maybe, just maybe see that affiliates are not getting paid like they were use to.....

To Properly run NATS and CCBILL together you have to offer 2 separate complete tours for each. ccbill codes should never see NATS, and vise versa.

If this was only a week or 2 issue I could understand, but it has been a lot longer than that.....

Just how I see things....

I contacted CCBILL and some programmers and found out these things.......listed above, and what will be in

MY NEXT POST

I might be wrong on this, but I believe Amateur Pages, Internet Eraser is Lensmans (GFY) and wasn't any part of CCbill but i really didn't pay attention to others at all back then.

but anyway, this seems very shaddy. Regardless of intential vs unintential how do you not notice a drop to zero in your affiliate sales the same exact time you start tinkering with signups pages.... You make a change, you check stats to double check your work to make sure you didn't screw something up.

A bump for some answers!

Where did Mike69 go?
What happened with that CCBill phone call?

Bueller.... Bueller.... Bueller....