Scottybuzz,

Would you be so kind as to reply to this post please?

Just in case you missed it. It has parts of the school massacre you quoted earlier, and the subsequent blanket ban.

Cheers Mate!

Oh dur, you owned me. Give me a break dude. If you want to be difficult and "protect your rights" thats fine. No matter which way you want to spin it america has a culture of violence for whatever reason and per capita, has more gun deaths than any other civilized nation in the world.

Something like that could work, as long as it's not a slap on the wrist.

I know. I should have put a wink in there. I was pretending to believe that criminals care what the law is anyway.

Btw, the report was the guy had a vest full of clips (For his firearm), not necesssarily a Bullet proof vest.

I was only joking bushwacker. If a guy is gonna drive drunk, brandish a firearm, use drugs, in the heat of passion, he isn't going to care what the law is.

I'm from VA so I know this school very well, my band played there alot. very shocking news being such a safe area..Blacksburg

i should have added a wink myself.:) :)

This is just a bash America opportunity for some. We will take our gun deaths in order to live like men. Not wait for the nanny state to come protect you when you get assaulted. Remember, the cops will be bringing chalk and police tape when you call them.

I love america and americans. So fuck you if you think i am trying to bash them. So called "tough guys" like yourself are a part of the problem. Live like men, die like dogs. Have fun with it. You rather make stupid comments that make yourself look big than look for the root of the problem.

Confirmed 31 dead now. :Oh crap

No, it is people like you that are crying about our gun crime that is the problem. This is what people do that want to take our right to carry away. Die like dogs? Isn't that what unarmed people do? Stupid comments? I guess that is your opinion, but you crying about how much gun crime America has is irrelavant, if you live in Canada. You don't live here. Maybe if you did, you would believe like I do. If somebody is breaking down your door, what will you do? If you have a gun, you will protect yourself. Does that make you a tough guy? My wife will do the same thing. Is she a tough guy?

we don't need 20 stations runnin the same thing.

its just retarded some people go off without a warning affecting innocent lives...i you want to end your misery just cap yourself off....why include others???

Go out in style I guess.

Maybe he got picked on, I heard it was a asain student. Then again, sounds kind of childish to be picked on in college.

Living in Florida, I get to meet alot of Canadians.

Guess what each of them do once they become Residents?

Get their concealed permits and buy a gun. :)

You aren't alone scardog. Some people just have no concept. They don't see the big picture they just see a quick fix. :thumbsup :thumbsup

Guess they wanna be tough guys? I really shouldn't argue with Canadians and people that live in England about conceal and carry, and the right to protect yourself. They always think I am trying to be a cowboy. I have the feeling if they lived here we would get along just fine. Thanks for confirming that for me. :thumbsup

Yeah, those fucking gooks need to get a backbone, instead of getting a gun and shooting up a school.

First reason you think he went nuts and shot a school up was he's asian and got picked on?

I would have thought he had a small dick, and that drove him to do it. :mad:

Great thought process.

You assume too much. Where was i talking about taking away gun rights? All i said was that if you think students are mature and stable enough to carry guns with them to class, you either must be one yourself or you highly overestimate them.

Of course if someone wants a gun, they are going to get it one way or another but why are there so many gun deaths in the first place? Lets assume its not because of gun laws, what is the problem?

Go ahead and tell the families of those killed by guns that they died in order so people like you can "live like men" and see how they react. Its my opinion that you have some growing up to do and need to let go of the machismo attitude.

Oh and if someone breaks into my home, i have a baseball bat. People don't break into homes with guns tpyically here. And even if they did, unless you have the gun a) by your side B) loaded c) you are awake enough to even realize someone is in your home then your gun won't serve much purpose besides to maybe be used against yourself if more than one person has broken into your home and over powers you while you attempt to shoot at one of them. Guns can help in some situation, there is no doubt but they aren't the answer to everything and the solution to every crime problem, nor is taking them away.

I asked someone to explain to me how more guns make a society safer.

Those people have guns because they thought that they would be safer with them, just like some of you do.

I'll bet that the guy who went on a rampage today was a law adiding citizen who fit your description right up until the moment he woke up this morning.

Besides, who is going to decide who can carry a gun and who can't?

There is no way to guarantee that someone is not going to abuse the power of having a gun. I am open minded, but I highly doubt that anyone here can forumlate an argument that changes my opinion; at least not without redefining freedom or taking it out of the equation all together.

No one is winning any argument here with a two line answer.

CNN now reporting death toll over 31.

No, they are probably living in fear due to the culture of violence that may or may not be a result of the number of people walking around with guns.

Who are you talking about? What people?

How much do you want to bet?

Right now, to be allowed to carry a firearm in the State of Florida, a backround check is made, as well as attending firearm safety course.

So your answer is the State.

I agree with you. That's why a criminal backround check is made. The chances someone abusing the ownership of a gun rises significantly with a criminal backround. In fact, the illegal use of a firearm in florida by a Concealed Permit Holder is almost negliable.

But the argument is being made by those who don't live in this country, and think that their enviroment is the same. Which I find amusing.

no weapons = no death. need of weapons = affraid of death ... of course ... and 2+2=4 ... go usa go!

Scottybuzz,

Just reminding you to give me your explanation why your solution has failed in the UK.

Thanks!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm

Yup, because you wouldn't take a knife to a gunfight. If you and the rest of the citizens weren't also packing, they wouldn't consider it. The current situation exists only because every feels the need to be armed.

Question: How many handguns are stolen or lost each year? Do you think those weapons are melted down for their scrap metal weight, or do you think it more likely they are kept by or sold to people who wouldn't legally qualify to have a gun?

Your justifcations are "chicken and the egg" type debates that are meaningless. The key questions have to do with how criminals get their guns.

On the other hand, crime has dropped significantly in Florida when Concealed permits were issued. You say everyone feels the need to be armed.

Population of Flordia: 15,980,000
Current Florida Residents with Concealed Permits: 289,644

Sixf Percent of Florida's Population can carry a firearm, that isn't everyone.

Six percent, and it lowered crime rates in florida. "Even though the state's population is growing, total homicides fell by 6.9%, and firearm homicides by 6.1%. Given the population increase, the decrease in rates would have been greater."

I'd say it's working very well.

And your point is what? This has already been addressed as a problem. Any type of law banning the legal right to own and carry a firearm HURTS the law abiding citizen, and only gives more power to the criminal.

I'ts meaningless to you, because you don't live here, and even more important, ignorant of the facts.

Anthony, I think you need to read the quote that I was responding to to understand the context of what I was saying.

Obviously most people who intend on using a gun for the puropses of crime is not going to use a registered gun. The fact that hand guns are legal and therefore manufacturered means that they will exist on the blackmarket. If handguns were illegal, there would be no more made, and therefore less available on the blackmarket (in theory).

However, this is not my argument. I was responding to the people who think that more guns equals a safer society.

I don't think that I need to live in the US to have an opinion about guns, we have gun violence here (not as much obviously) and I don't think the answer here is to increase the number of guns. Making it harder to get a gun on the blackmarket is what will slow down deaths by guns.

There are many 18 - 21 year olds that are mature enough to carry weapons. Isn't that what our military infantry is filled with?

Call it machismo if you want. What I mean by "live like men" is that in America, we like to have as much control over our destiny as possible. If the government takes our guns away, but criminals will of course still have theirs, then we must rely on the government to protect our lives and families lives. There is really no way for them to do that without 24 hour protection of every individual in the country. I am angry that these kids got shot. I want them to have the right if they so choose to have a firearm, even in school. Hell, there are police officers on campus 24/7, yet 32 people died.

You have the proper tool "baseball bat" to protect against someone that breaks in with a baseball bat, or other blunt object, as long as they are alone. You don't live here, so what sound like being macho, is really just trying to make sure we have the right tool for the job of protection. Who is more macho, the guy that can protect his house with a baseball bat, and his fighting skills, or the guy that needs a gun? Your points are valid, but if someone breaks into my house I will know it before they are standing over me. If you are going to have a gun, then I suggest courses in safety, and a plan of deployment. They are very dangerous, and should be treated with the utmost respect.

Thank god that loser killed himself.

RIP to the others who lost their lives.

Sorry, I hit the numbers wrong on percentages...

One percent of Florida's Residents carry firearms.

That's even more impressive.

When conceal carry laws are put into effect in an area, crime goes down. This is due to the fact that the criminals never know who has a gun and who doesn't. Criminals don't want to get shot. That is how more guns, reduces crime. Nobody is going to win an argument here. Some people hate guns, and will not accept any argument for having one.

I find it even more disheartening, that the students depended on the on-campus security to protect them, yet the guy has to take himself out to end the massacre, over 2 hours after he kills the first person.

pretty cold and chillin that the guy was calculated to the point where he chained the exit doors so that no one could get out. i'm glad i'm not in school anymore...it's a different world today

Canada is still a part of the commonwealth. The United States fought and claimed it's independece from the UK. We have different histories, and yes, they make up our country's identities.

No one has said increase the number of guns, rather, let law abiding citizens carry them. Which, you may not know, is fast becoming the standard across the USA. "Stand Your Ground Laws" are becoming mandate when it comes to self protection, which was started in Florida, and is a success.

It is easier to say "Make it harder to get a gun on the black market", another to make it happen.

The "Make It Harder" defense has been used for quite a few things. How easy is it to get drugs in Toronto?

You really missed my point here. I am saying they died because they weren't allowed to defend themselves "live like men". They were not allowed to have guns, so they were perfect victims for a crazy man. The school to me is just a microcosm of our society if guns are banned. The law abiding people were slaughtered by the criminal.

in fact, it defeats your whole logic and argument :2 cents:

It defeats?

One percent of Floridians have the right to carry a concealed firearm, yet, Crime across florida has dropped over 6 percent.

Explain to me how that defeated my logic and argument please.

Do you have evidence to back this up? From a credible source?

Once again, I direct your attention to 90's Compton. Most of those kids had guns and they all either ended up in jail, or were killed.

People hate guns because it gives the people who own them too much power. We can not be judge and jury and continue to think that we live in a just and democratic society.

That's quite horrible.. I feel sorry for the families waiting for each of them:(

oopss double post.. quite nervous:helpme

No time to quote you from here, but your premise is that more guns make it safer.
Then you went on to backup that argument by giving Florida as example, because you can have concealed weapons. You claimed that 6% had permits, resulting in a lower crime rate.
I could have bough that.
But when you come down to one percent, that is negligeable, so not a factor for the " general " population.

Now, who have these permits in Florida...

I would speculate that small shop owners, 7-11 type of late hour stores, gas stations, etc....
So yes, a thief will now think twice to hit such a convenience store, afraid that he could get shot... explaining the reduction of gun crimes.

But more guns in the population will not stop randam unjustified shooting as this one; it will only increase the possibilities of happening.

Just an opinion.

When confronted with such a situation rather than just talking about it, i bet the majority scamble to save their own lives rather than attempt to do anything if they had a gun or not.

I'm not sure how else i could of taken this "We will take our gun deaths in order to live like men". To me and I'm sure many others, you seemed to say that gun deaths are are an acceptable part of keeping your right to bear arms. I'll reply to your other post later.

Ahh, no mate, my argument is that concealed permist issued had decreased crime rates.

Your thoughts on how a thief would think twice abot hitting a 7-11, etc. is the same mindset with concealed weapon permits.

This model has worked so well in Florida, that now over 30 states have adpoted it, and the "Stand your ground" law is making it's rounds with those states.

Fark users are now posting this is the *purported* shooter's myspace page:

profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=103 371055

Check out the photo comments of the profile pic.

I agree with your post that I bolded.

I would scramble like crazy, those kids that barricaded a door with a heavy table, that the guy still shot through the door, that was brave and smart.

I'm sure if one of them was armed, they would have still done the same thing, as well as fired right back at him through the door.

It's all conjecture at this point what would have happened, but the chances of this NOT HAPPENING AT ALL would be exponentially higher if people in school were armed.

My condolences to the families of the students that were killed today:(

I though you said you weren't talking about taking away the right to bear arms? Gun deaths are a part of our society. I believe if the students had the right to bear arms, some may have stopped this guy. Read this sentence twice. The students did not have the right to have a gun (bear arms) on campus, so they were victims with no chance of defending themselves. You think I am defending the criminals rights to have one, when I am wishing the victims had the rights to have one.

Gun deaths are not a reason to take away our 2nd amendment right to bear arms.

Scrambling to save your own life may include shooting the shooter if you have a gun. Nobody is saying anyone would go hunting for the shooter.

Our Histories are irrelevant to this debate. By getting more "law abiding" citizens to carry guns you are increasing the demand for guns and therefore the manufacturers are going to need to produce more guns. As the desire for legal guns increases, so will the amout of guns that make their way to the blackmarket, therefore increasing the need for guns. This is a relationship that will only result in more deaths.

I think that it is quite easy to make it harder to get a hand gun on the black market. If they stop making them all together, no new hand guns will be available on the blackmarket ones. Obviously stolen guns will always be there, but the available number of hand guns will decrease over time if they simply are not available for purchase any more.

I'm sure it easy to get drugs in Toronto as it is any city. Hell, once I was in London at King's Cross and a guy casually walked up to me and said, "hey man, do you know where I can get two hits of LSD for 20 pounds"? Drugs will always be around so long as there is a market for them and people want them enough to ask total strangers if they have them. But drugs are different than guns because drugs are illegal to manufacture, so you are missing the point here. Besides, Canada does not have a "war on drugs"

Guns are legally manufactured and taxed, etc. I think you will find that if hand guns were illegal (and the legal manufacturers no longer produced them) there will be much less gun violence over the period of 10-20 years. Obviously this is a hypothesis and open to debate.
However, more hand guns is always going to equal more deaths and gun violence.