this is an absolute tragedy, alot of people around here go to virginia tech

While people 18-25 are technically adults, most are very immature. If guns were allowed to be carried by students there would be daily incidents of these "adults" pulling them out on someone, using them for intimdation, ect for one reason or another.

You probably would of been shaking like a leaf and hit a couple other people in the process. Anyways, the guy was wearing a vest, good luck. You only have his head to hit.

After reading four depressing pages of propaganda here, it occurs to me that life is worth less than I thought. Or at least people seem to value it less now than in the past.

I'd like to see someone intelligently explain how more guns equals a safer society.

If you give more people the power to kill then chance are more people are going to abuse that power. Take a look at gang violence in Compton in the 80's and 90's for an example of this. Or you could watch the movie "City of God" for another example. Both these stories end in violence and death because guns end up in the hands of disenfranchised youth who don?t have enough years under their belt to understand the value of life or comprehend the weight of their decisions.

double post

Let's get back to your solution. A blanket gun ban.

How much gun crime did the gun ban decrease?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm

I have an idea. We would make it against the law to brandish your weapon for intimidation. Since laws are the way to approach the problem, we would just make tougher laws for pulling your gun on someone. That would of course stop the behavior.

The guns you are speaking of are in the hands of homicidal drug criminals. We are suggesting getting more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens.

Scardog,

It is already against the law to brandish your firearm as a means of intimidation.

Get shot in the hand and see if you still feel like killing people. There is a lot more to a guy than a vest can cover. Get shot in the chest while wearing a vest and see if you still feel like killing people.

Scottybuzz,

Would you be so kind as to reply to this post please?

Just in case you missed it. It has parts of the school massacre you quoted earlier, and the subsequent blanket ban.

Cheers Mate!

Oh dur, you owned me. Give me a break dude. If you want to be difficult and "protect your rights" thats fine. No matter which way you want to spin it america has a culture of violence for whatever reason and per capita, has more gun deaths than any other civilized nation in the world.

Something like that could work, as long as it's not a slap on the wrist.

I know. I should have put a wink in there. I was pretending to believe that criminals care what the law is anyway.

Btw, the report was the guy had a vest full of clips (For his firearm), not necesssarily a Bullet proof vest.

I was only joking bushwacker. If a guy is gonna drive drunk, brandish a firearm, use drugs, in the heat of passion, he isn't going to care what the law is.

I'm from VA so I know this school very well, my band played there alot. very shocking news being such a safe area..Blacksburg

i should have added a wink myself.:) :)

This is just a bash America opportunity for some. We will take our gun deaths in order to live like men. Not wait for the nanny state to come protect you when you get assaulted. Remember, the cops will be bringing chalk and police tape when you call them.

I love america and americans. So fuck you if you think i am trying to bash them. So called "tough guys" like yourself are a part of the problem. Live like men, die like dogs. Have fun with it. You rather make stupid comments that make yourself look big than look for the root of the problem.

Confirmed 31 dead now. :Oh crap

No, it is people like you that are crying about our gun crime that is the problem. This is what people do that want to take our right to carry away. Die like dogs? Isn't that what unarmed people do? Stupid comments? I guess that is your opinion, but you crying about how much gun crime America has is irrelavant, if you live in Canada. You don't live here. Maybe if you did, you would believe like I do. If somebody is breaking down your door, what will you do? If you have a gun, you will protect yourself. Does that make you a tough guy? My wife will do the same thing. Is she a tough guy?

we don't need 20 stations runnin the same thing.

its just retarded some people go off without a warning affecting innocent lives...i you want to end your misery just cap yourself off....why include others???

Go out in style I guess.

Maybe he got picked on, I heard it was a asain student. Then again, sounds kind of childish to be picked on in college.

Living in Florida, I get to meet alot of Canadians.

Guess what each of them do once they become Residents?

Get their concealed permits and buy a gun. :)

You aren't alone scardog. Some people just have no concept. They don't see the big picture they just see a quick fix. :thumbsup :thumbsup

Guess they wanna be tough guys? I really shouldn't argue with Canadians and people that live in England about conceal and carry, and the right to protect yourself. They always think I am trying to be a cowboy. I have the feeling if they lived here we would get along just fine. Thanks for confirming that for me. :thumbsup

Yeah, those fucking gooks need to get a backbone, instead of getting a gun and shooting up a school.

First reason you think he went nuts and shot a school up was he's asian and got picked on?

I would have thought he had a small dick, and that drove him to do it. :mad:

Great thought process.

You assume too much. Where was i talking about taking away gun rights? All i said was that if you think students are mature and stable enough to carry guns with them to class, you either must be one yourself or you highly overestimate them.

Of course if someone wants a gun, they are going to get it one way or another but why are there so many gun deaths in the first place? Lets assume its not because of gun laws, what is the problem?

Go ahead and tell the families of those killed by guns that they died in order so people like you can "live like men" and see how they react. Its my opinion that you have some growing up to do and need to let go of the machismo attitude.

Oh and if someone breaks into my home, i have a baseball bat. People don't break into homes with guns tpyically here. And even if they did, unless you have the gun a) by your side B) loaded c) you are awake enough to even realize someone is in your home then your gun won't serve much purpose besides to maybe be used against yourself if more than one person has broken into your home and over powers you while you attempt to shoot at one of them. Guns can help in some situation, there is no doubt but they aren't the answer to everything and the solution to every crime problem, nor is taking them away.

I asked someone to explain to me how more guns make a society safer.

Those people have guns because they thought that they would be safer with them, just like some of you do.

I'll bet that the guy who went on a rampage today was a law adiding citizen who fit your description right up until the moment he woke up this morning.

Besides, who is going to decide who can carry a gun and who can't?

There is no way to guarantee that someone is not going to abuse the power of having a gun. I am open minded, but I highly doubt that anyone here can forumlate an argument that changes my opinion; at least not without redefining freedom or taking it out of the equation all together.

No one is winning any argument here with a two line answer.

CNN now reporting death toll over 31.

No, they are probably living in fear due to the culture of violence that may or may not be a result of the number of people walking around with guns.

Who are you talking about? What people?

How much do you want to bet?

Right now, to be allowed to carry a firearm in the State of Florida, a backround check is made, as well as attending firearm safety course.

So your answer is the State.

I agree with you. That's why a criminal backround check is made. The chances someone abusing the ownership of a gun rises significantly with a criminal backround. In fact, the illegal use of a firearm in florida by a Concealed Permit Holder is almost negliable.

But the argument is being made by those who don't live in this country, and think that their enviroment is the same. Which I find amusing.

no weapons = no death. need of weapons = affraid of death ... of course ... and 2+2=4 ... go usa go!

Scottybuzz,

Just reminding you to give me your explanation why your solution has failed in the UK.

Thanks!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm

Yup, because you wouldn't take a knife to a gunfight. If you and the rest of the citizens weren't also packing, they wouldn't consider it. The current situation exists only because every feels the need to be armed.

Question: How many handguns are stolen or lost each year? Do you think those weapons are melted down for their scrap metal weight, or do you think it more likely they are kept by or sold to people who wouldn't legally qualify to have a gun?

Your justifcations are "chicken and the egg" type debates that are meaningless. The key questions have to do with how criminals get their guns.

On the other hand, crime has dropped significantly in Florida when Concealed permits were issued. You say everyone feels the need to be armed.

Population of Flordia: 15,980,000
Current Florida Residents with Concealed Permits: 289,644

Sixf Percent of Florida's Population can carry a firearm, that isn't everyone.

Six percent, and it lowered crime rates in florida. "Even though the state's population is growing, total homicides fell by 6.9%, and firearm homicides by 6.1%. Given the population increase, the decrease in rates would have been greater."

I'd say it's working very well.

And your point is what? This has already been addressed as a problem. Any type of law banning the legal right to own and carry a firearm HURTS the law abiding citizen, and only gives more power to the criminal.

I'ts meaningless to you, because you don't live here, and even more important, ignorant of the facts.

Anthony, I think you need to read the quote that I was responding to to understand the context of what I was saying.

Obviously most people who intend on using a gun for the puropses of crime is not going to use a registered gun. The fact that hand guns are legal and therefore manufacturered means that they will exist on the blackmarket. If handguns were illegal, there would be no more made, and therefore less available on the blackmarket (in theory).

However, this is not my argument. I was responding to the people who think that more guns equals a safer society.

I don't think that I need to live in the US to have an opinion about guns, we have gun violence here (not as much obviously) and I don't think the answer here is to increase the number of guns. Making it harder to get a gun on the blackmarket is what will slow down deaths by guns.

There are many 18 - 21 year olds that are mature enough to carry weapons. Isn't that what our military infantry is filled with?

Call it machismo if you want. What I mean by "live like men" is that in America, we like to have as much control over our destiny as possible. If the government takes our guns away, but criminals will of course still have theirs, then we must rely on the government to protect our lives and families lives. There is really no way for them to do that without 24 hour protection of every individual in the country. I am angry that these kids got shot. I want them to have the right if they so choose to have a firearm, even in school. Hell, there are police officers on campus 24/7, yet 32 people died.

You have the proper tool "baseball bat" to protect against someone that breaks in with a baseball bat, or other blunt object, as long as they are alone. You don't live here, so what sound like being macho, is really just trying to make sure we have the right tool for the job of protection. Who is more macho, the guy that can protect his house with a baseball bat, and his fighting skills, or the guy that needs a gun? Your points are valid, but if someone breaks into my house I will know it before they are standing over me. If you are going to have a gun, then I suggest courses in safety, and a plan of deployment. They are very dangerous, and should be treated with the utmost respect.