Thank god that loser killed himself.

RIP to the others who lost their lives.

Sorry, I hit the numbers wrong on percentages...

One percent of Florida's Residents carry firearms.

That's even more impressive.

When conceal carry laws are put into effect in an area, crime goes down. This is due to the fact that the criminals never know who has a gun and who doesn't. Criminals don't want to get shot. That is how more guns, reduces crime. Nobody is going to win an argument here. Some people hate guns, and will not accept any argument for having one.

I find it even more disheartening, that the students depended on the on-campus security to protect them, yet the guy has to take himself out to end the massacre, over 2 hours after he kills the first person.

pretty cold and chillin that the guy was calculated to the point where he chained the exit doors so that no one could get out. i'm glad i'm not in school anymore...it's a different world today

Canada is still a part of the commonwealth. The United States fought and claimed it's independece from the UK. We have different histories, and yes, they make up our country's identities.

No one has said increase the number of guns, rather, let law abiding citizens carry them. Which, you may not know, is fast becoming the standard across the USA. "Stand Your Ground Laws" are becoming mandate when it comes to self protection, which was started in Florida, and is a success.

It is easier to say "Make it harder to get a gun on the black market", another to make it happen.

The "Make It Harder" defense has been used for quite a few things. How easy is it to get drugs in Toronto?

You really missed my point here. I am saying they died because they weren't allowed to defend themselves "live like men". They were not allowed to have guns, so they were perfect victims for a crazy man. The school to me is just a microcosm of our society if guns are banned. The law abiding people were slaughtered by the criminal.

in fact, it defeats your whole logic and argument :2 cents:

It defeats?

One percent of Floridians have the right to carry a concealed firearm, yet, Crime across florida has dropped over 6 percent.

Explain to me how that defeated my logic and argument please.

Do you have evidence to back this up? From a credible source?

Once again, I direct your attention to 90's Compton. Most of those kids had guns and they all either ended up in jail, or were killed.

People hate guns because it gives the people who own them too much power. We can not be judge and jury and continue to think that we live in a just and democratic society.

That's quite horrible.. I feel sorry for the families waiting for each of them:(

oopss double post.. quite nervous:helpme

No time to quote you from here, but your premise is that more guns make it safer.
Then you went on to backup that argument by giving Florida as example, because you can have concealed weapons. You claimed that 6% had permits, resulting in a lower crime rate.
I could have bough that.
But when you come down to one percent, that is negligeable, so not a factor for the " general " population.

Now, who have these permits in Florida...

I would speculate that small shop owners, 7-11 type of late hour stores, gas stations, etc....
So yes, a thief will now think twice to hit such a convenience store, afraid that he could get shot... explaining the reduction of gun crimes.

But more guns in the population will not stop randam unjustified shooting as this one; it will only increase the possibilities of happening.

Just an opinion.

When confronted with such a situation rather than just talking about it, i bet the majority scamble to save their own lives rather than attempt to do anything if they had a gun or not.

I'm not sure how else i could of taken this "We will take our gun deaths in order to live like men". To me and I'm sure many others, you seemed to say that gun deaths are are an acceptable part of keeping your right to bear arms. I'll reply to your other post later.

Ahh, no mate, my argument is that concealed permist issued had decreased crime rates.

Your thoughts on how a thief would think twice abot hitting a 7-11, etc. is the same mindset with concealed weapon permits.

This model has worked so well in Florida, that now over 30 states have adpoted it, and the "Stand your ground" law is making it's rounds with those states.

Fark users are now posting this is the *purported* shooter's myspace page:

profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=103 371055

Check out the photo comments of the profile pic.

I agree with your post that I bolded.

I would scramble like crazy, those kids that barricaded a door with a heavy table, that the guy still shot through the door, that was brave and smart.

I'm sure if one of them was armed, they would have still done the same thing, as well as fired right back at him through the door.

It's all conjecture at this point what would have happened, but the chances of this NOT HAPPENING AT ALL would be exponentially higher if people in school were armed.

My condolences to the families of the students that were killed today:(

I though you said you weren't talking about taking away the right to bear arms? Gun deaths are a part of our society. I believe if the students had the right to bear arms, some may have stopped this guy. Read this sentence twice. The students did not have the right to have a gun (bear arms) on campus, so they were victims with no chance of defending themselves. You think I am defending the criminals rights to have one, when I am wishing the victims had the rights to have one.

Gun deaths are not a reason to take away our 2nd amendment right to bear arms.

Scrambling to save your own life may include shooting the shooter if you have a gun. Nobody is saying anyone would go hunting for the shooter.

Our Histories are irrelevant to this debate. By getting more "law abiding" citizens to carry guns you are increasing the demand for guns and therefore the manufacturers are going to need to produce more guns. As the desire for legal guns increases, so will the amout of guns that make their way to the blackmarket, therefore increasing the need for guns. This is a relationship that will only result in more deaths.

I think that it is quite easy to make it harder to get a hand gun on the black market. If they stop making them all together, no new hand guns will be available on the blackmarket ones. Obviously stolen guns will always be there, but the available number of hand guns will decrease over time if they simply are not available for purchase any more.

I'm sure it easy to get drugs in Toronto as it is any city. Hell, once I was in London at King's Cross and a guy casually walked up to me and said, "hey man, do you know where I can get two hits of LSD for 20 pounds"? Drugs will always be around so long as there is a market for them and people want them enough to ask total strangers if they have them. But drugs are different than guns because drugs are illegal to manufacture, so you are missing the point here. Besides, Canada does not have a "war on drugs"

Guns are legally manufactured and taxed, etc. I think you will find that if hand guns were illegal (and the legal manufacturers no longer produced them) there will be much less gun violence over the period of 10-20 years. Obviously this is a hypothesis and open to debate.
However, more hand guns is always going to equal more deaths and gun violence.

this is nuts

That's fucked up

Cant be him, it says he is "online now"

Maybe, but if the guy was planning on killing himself anyhow I'm not too sure if it would of been much of a deterant.

Yes.
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm20.htm

States with right-to-carry laws have lower overall violent crime rates, compared to states without right-to-carry laws. In states whose laws respect the citizen's right-to-carry guns for self defense the total violent crime is 13% lower, homicide is 3% lower, robbery is 26% lower and aggravated assault is 7% lower. (Data: Crime in the United States 1996, FBI Uniform Crime Reports)

more bullets flying at the shooter equals less deaths, yes. would have resulted in less bullets *from* the shooter, and a net loss of total bullets flying. seem's pretty infallible to me

Anthony, what situation is most likely to go wrong (in a deadly way). 50 people in a room where 45 carry a gun or 50 people in a room where no one has a gun?

Americans always cry about needing a gun for self defense while studies show its more likely an accident happens with a gun in a home than that person ever needing it to defend himself.

Making guns illegal now in the US is stupid and wont work because everybody has a gun already. It shouldnt have been allowed in the first place. Thats where the problem is. America has a huge fucking gun problem. If that country wasnt flooded with guns in the first place that problem now wouldnt exist.

Reading through the comments, it looks to be someone *claiming* to be the August 2006 Virginia Tech killer.

BTW, those MySpace online alerts don't exactly work. Users can be cached as "online" for up to days at a time.

If he was shot and killed that would have been a great "deterant."

Fair enough. But, that study is unpublished, it does not explain how it arrived at it's conclusions, and it does not (or at least it does not state that is does) account for population growth. They are seeming to compare samples from a decade ago versus three decades ago. Not to mention that this is from 1996, so over a decade ago. Seriously, this is neither credible nor is it recent.

AOL users did this same thing during Columbine. You're going to get quite a few copycats on MySpace in the next few days.

blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=171473490& blogID=254062324

Therein lies your problem. You fail to grasp that the right to bear arms is such an integral part of the United States, it's the 2nd Amendment. Your country did not fight for it's independence, therefore it's not held as highly.

I've said it earlier, Pandora's box has been opened, firearms is big business, across the world. You will never stop that, so stop living in that pipe dream that it can be done. I find it hilarious (Not in a good way) you think the desire for guns will drop for criminals because legal, law abiding citizens can't have any. It's so out there, it's not even on the map anymore.

More living in fantasyland.

In Canada, Drugs are illegal, right? Kinda like how you want to make guns illegal for anyone to get. Didn't work for drugs, what makes you think it will for guns?

Guns will always be around as long as there will be a market for it. Anytime one human being wants to force their will on another human being, you'll find guns.

This thinking did really well during the Prohibition Years in the United States. No manufacture of alcohol in the USA, they just got it in from Canada.

Alcohol, guns, what difference does it make? If someone wants it, they'll get it.

Your whole argument is based on stop manufacturing guns. That's never going to happen, so the whole argument is one big mental masturbation.

It was the first one I came to. Can you provide a credible report that says conceal carry laws increase gun crime?

I wasn't addressing his race . . . I was addressing the girlfriend issue.

I have an idea. Let's fit everyone with a dog collar, and give everyone else the right to push a button at any time that makes that collar blowup, killing the wearer.

I am sure, sure, sure that this would lead to less deaths than just walking around normally. I am sure we can find some stats somewhere to prove it.

Still more living proof guns and legislation which "supposed" to control them has failed again.

Welcome to the reality of the highest gun possession and gun crime in the world - what ya expect?

In this context of the shootings... Obviously the 50 in a room where no one had a gun.

Accidents happen no matter what in any context. A firearm is a tool that is not needed until you absolutely need it. Proper education in safety helps. It's also the law that allowing any child under the age of 18 access to a firearm that is not properly secured is a felony.


100% agree with you. But it's done, and right now, the right to carry is the most viable option for law abiding citizens. So viable, 31 states have enacted it.

Sucks when you lose an argument, eh Alex?

The uniform FBI crime statistics not credible? Maybe not recent, but I have never heard that law abiding citizens getting guns did anything but reduce crime. If you have recent stats that say it increases it, I would love to see it.

Be sure they don't include gang stats in that, since that is one gang against another crime, not against the population in general.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh ................................