I'm not talking about pay. I just don't think anyone who willingly gets hired as a firefighter, knowing its a job that could be life threatening, then dies in the course of their duty, is a hero.

If someone off the street did it, then that's a different story.

why the fuck you guys always gotta get off track of the posts here.

9-11-02 whats gonna happen?

Saddam is only getting older, he has chemical weapons in the making, duh why wouldnt he let the U.N. do inspections anymore, its not like the U.N. is raping his fucking sheep.

Saddam is behind all this mess and its only gonna get worse, before he dies some heavy shit will go down.

So I guess they run into hell holes filled with fire because they like the smell of ass hair burning?

COME ON!!!!

And just so you know, most firemen work a second job becaue the pay is not enough to live in todays standards.

Why they do it is their business. But don't tell me they're heroes.

Maybe they should have gone to university then.

get off the fucking firefighters posts about them not making enough money and read this please

he·ro Pronunciation Key (hîr)
n. pl. he·roes

1. In mythology and legend, a man, often of divine ancestry, who is endowed with great courage and strength, celebrated for his bold exploits, and favored by the gods.
2. A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.
3. A person noted for special achievement in a particular field: the heroes of medicine. See Synonyms at celebrity.
4. The principal male character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation.


Let's see...

"A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life"

No courage involved??? No nobility of purpose??? No sacrafice of life???

Uh hun... go on!

For what? To learn how to become a firefighter? You don't get it do you? They do their job because of the love for it. It has nothing to do with money, girls, or being a hero.

I hope one day you come across a situation where you need the assistance of a firemen. And I hope he kindly returns the favor of disrespect you have given all firemen across the world.

Look dude, I was there during the attack. I didn't see the first building collapse but I watched the second one fall. I could smell the smoke and all. After seeing everything that was goin on around the city I can't say that these guys are anything other than heros. I watched these guys rush to the scene all day with a look of terror in their eyes. After the first building collapsed they all know this could be their last call. It's not unlike a kid enlisting in the army when there is no war then all of a sudden war breaks out. That kid never imagined he could end up on a battlefield. Same thing applies here.

These dudes had to rush into one of the most horrifying scenes you could imagine. There was so much smoke no one could see or breathe. You could smell the burning, plastic, paper, steel, flesh... you name it. People were falling out of the sky. Everyone knew if you didn't make it out of the building after a certain time you were already dead but they had to go into the heart of this madness anyway. They didn't sign up for that. No one is 'prepared' for that. These were the same guys you could catch at a regular bar. They weren't some super prepared and trained 'hero' types. But they went in and saved whoever they could and died in the process.

How often does that happen?

OK I'm not American but the events of 9/11 have seriously effected my views on the world. Am I the only one who seems to hate the fucking wannabe :ak47: bin laden and everything he stands for? Personally I hope he and everyone like him burns in hell for what they did. I hope the US managed to get him, and if they did - I hope they torture the bastard till he begs for mercy. Shouldn't even be given that, he's lower than scum in my opinion!

Stick your head in an oven, you breathing piece of birthwaste. I hope you die in a fire that could have easily been avoided.

Great post Pornwolf!

My fiancee's father is a volunter firemen in weschester county ny. After the first plane hit he ran down to the city to do whatever he could. He did not come home for 3 days. And when he did come home he only stayed for 2 hours, ate, showered and then went back down for another 3 days straight. He did not get paid. He found no glory in his actions.

What he did find were dozens and dozens of body parts and debri all over the place. It takes a strong person to pick fingers, bones, elbows, hands, you name it from rubble for days on end. And he was not the only one. There were thousands of men and women down their doing what people like you can only watch on tv.

Hahahahaahaha!

we didnt get him, thats the thing.

my belief on the whole "OMG KILL BIN LADEN NOW!" thing that bush pushed was all bullshit propaganda to make us think we were at least trying to fight back. If we want to fight back then go after their main supply, not their leader

and Joe sup man :p i think ima come visit u guys next week when i get a day off from school, ur in charlotte right? I've been talking alot with Dallas lately :c)

http://www.carflag.com/images/Misc/CarFlagOnACar.jpg

American Patriotism.

If I die while doing my job, I am a hero as well.

Everyone is a hero now.

Labret you fucking moron... do you even know what hero means???

I gave the definition above...

If you die doing your job during "feats of courage or nobility of purpose" while risking or sacrificing your life... then as much as I hate to say it -- you would be a hero.

So then plowing your mother counts...



If you say so.

Which dictionary did your definition come from?

US faces 9/11 ad black hole
"US media companies are bracing themselves for huge losses of tens of millions of pounds as advertisers shun the anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attacks."
http://media.guardian.co.uk/advertis...772075,00.html

Running nonstop news during a terrorist attack actually loses money. Not many people want to see Billy Mays promote OxyClean while shit's hitting the fan.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

[labret] --

I have to admit... sometimes I think you actually are an intellectual. So going with that... why don't you answer me this...

If language means nothing and definitions don't matter, how does one share ideas???

By talking about each others mothers???

There are some great pictures here if you have not seen them:
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue01...gart_intro.htm

Bill Biggart was a photographer that kept going closer to the towers as they fell. And some of the media was recovered in the rubble. His last photo is around two minutes from the time the second tower collapsed.

Im not sure where you see me questioning the definition of hero.

I am of the opinion that the term is used far too loosely these days.

Rudolph Giuliani... is not a hero. The 8 year old girl who carried water to the tired fireman... not a hero. The third floor janitor who lept to safety. Not. A. Hero. Everyone associated with that event is a fucking hero. Fuck, they paint the residents of New York as heroes.

2 years ago the entire nation was of the opinion that New York was a cesspool full of rude assholes. Now it is a city of Heroes.

I beg to differ.

My opinion will most likely make lotsa people hate me, but I think that Osama Bin Laden's actions last year were the work of a genius. He knew exactly what he wanted to achieve and carried it out flawlessly. His strong fanastism, hate and believe drove him to plan this over years and years. The entire free world is shocked in disbelief. I am not saying that I agree with what he did, hell no - my own family could have been there, or even myself. I would not want to have anyone close to me die under millions of tons of debree. However, just like the Austrian Adolf Hitler managed to have millions of Germans follow his sick ideology and put more millions of helpless, innocent Jews and others into the gas chamber over 50 years ago, ObL managed to convince other fanatics to follow his vicious plan. Although only few Americans will admit it, the US does stick their nose into things that are beyond their range... it was just a matter of time until someone with the means to carry out a silent counterattack would emerge. And with ObL the muslim extremists found their daddy. Sad but true.

Every action is followed by a reaction. You mess with people and underestimate them, and you'll get stabbed from behind although you would have never ever expected it. Just my :2 cents: . Live with it or not.

Heroes or not. The nation needs heroes to cope with the events that happened.... it happenes naturally that heroes emerge.

I generally agree with you. I think September 11 was an extraordinarily successful terrorist attack. They kept the lid on it... there were no leaks before the actual event and 3 out of 4 planes hit their intended targets. I suspect they were more successful than they ever expected to be.

I give it an 8 out of 10

An 8 for what is the most spectacular terrorist attack in history?

A handful of sand monkies managed to do damn near single handedly destroy the American airline industry, instead of gently sliding into a recession, it catapulted us into one. The absolute spit in the face factor and kick in the nuts to national pride makes this a 10. It was absolutely amazing. Not too mention the loss of life and property damage.

The full repercussions have not been felt from this.

Labret has a good point. Considering that the US will talk about it for the next century or so, I'd give it a 10 as well.

Yes but what happened to Japan and her Emperor after they dive bombed Pearl Harbor? What of Hitler and his Nazi party after we added our efforts to the War?

They were both destroyed. Sent into economic and civil turmoil. If you're judging simply in terms of bang for buck it was brilliant. If you're judging in terms of grand military strategy then Bin Laden would have been much smarter to stay quiet and hidden until he could have caused much more extensive damage. Bin Laden is a huge figure in the Islamic community and could have launched a massive and sustained attack on all his perceived enemies.

Instead he has pissed away his chance a leading the Muslim Jihad by destroying a building and a few thousand people. We're lucky that most of the people throughout history with the balls to bring us to war are so incompetent and so near sighted.

If the fourth plane had destroyed the White House, it would have been a 10 no question.

Then you would have had:

1. The symbolic destruction of the US economy
2. The symbolic destruction of the US Armed Forces
3. The symbolic destruction of the US government.

In my opinion, the White House SHOULD have been the primary target. They failed to take it out.

In my opinion it should of been your home.. But they failed

Japan ? Thanks to the early work of German refugee scientists Otto Hahn and Otto Frisch the US was capable of dropping 'Little Boy' on August 6th and 66,000 people were killed and 69,000 injured by the 10 kiloton explosion. Followed by the attack on Nagasaki, 'Fat Man' was dropped on August 9th - Nagasaki's population vanished from 422,000 to 383,000 and over 25,000 people were injured there.

Highly impressive warfare. :rolleyes:

The downfall of Hitler was not only thanks to our allies from overseas, but also due to the strong forces from the former Sovjet Union, that drove Hitler back from the East. Not to forget the British and the French Resistance.

hahahahahaaha! :1orglaugh

Sorry, Australians don't manage to piss of the sand ******s like you Americans do!

September 11 should not be classified as a 10 in terms of strategy.

A 6 or 7 would be more appropriate.

Nuclear, Biological or Chemical weapons in a single large city would be an 8.

Nuclear, Biological or Chemical weapons set off in multiple cities with millions dead and a great depression level collapse of the US and world economy would be a 9.

NBC weapons plus a complete revolution/takeover or destruction of the US Government and destruction of major metro areas of United States would justify a 10.

I concur. I, having been involved in many military operations, I give it a 10. As operations go it was almost 100% in its success.

It was the most damaging, single attack, ever delivered to America, or even to its Military Forces, in loss of life and economic damage.

A few "sand monkies" did something that the Japanese and the Germans could not accomplish.

The best the Japanese could do was to float a few bombs over the mainland by balloon, and the best the Germans could do was to fire a few rounds from a Submarine.

While the enemy must be destroyed, I, as a professional soldier learned to respect, and even admire, my enemy when they carried out a well planned and professionally executed operation.

Here's where I see you questioning the definition of a hero...

"If I die while doing my job, I am a hero as well.

Everyone is a hero now."

No not everyone that does their job is a hero...

Giuliani is NOT a hero, the 8 year old is not a hero, and the janitor is not a hero.

New York is still a cesspool and full of rude assholes!

No it's not a city of heroes... but give the heroes their due!

Heroes or not. Anybody in that situation would have acted in a helpful manner, no matter what.

This Hero bullshit sickens me.

CluelessJoe,
They are firefighters because their fathers, and grandfathers were firefighters. That's what they grew up in.

On Sept 11 the FDNY lost almost 350 men, many that were very high in rank.

In their first 100 years the FNDY lost just over 700 men total.

Many people lived because these men went as far as the 78th floor saving people, and helping them get out. Only to have two 110 story buildings collapse on top of them.

Now if that doesn't sound heroic to you, you don't understand the English language very well.

No go die in a fire :321GFY

There's alot less violence in NYC than Detroit, or Chicago. That's for damn sure!