I agree my point exactly, same as with other free accessible areas of a business...

a publicly accessible area is just that,..

as is a stores WiFi connection, bathroom facilities and or other areas accessible to the public...

If its not specified that its for paying customers only than the facility shouldn't bitch when others access it...

they should enact some sort of regulation that states any business that has wifi access available to their customers must use an encryption key if they want customers only to use it, all they would have to do is enable the security on the fuckin router it takes 5 minutes and a matter of a few clicks. if he feels it's a problem having a encryption key enabled you make up a card with the key on it when someone purchases something you hand them the card with the key on it... problem solved

otherwise it's open to everyone and it's their fault they hadn't done something to protect their network

absolutely true, it wouldn't be fool proof but it will cut back on those type of insidents... + new pass daily will eventually determine whos a paying customer and who keeps coming in getting the pass and walking out

i can't believe you people are such children.

i really dont care about anyone using someones wi-fi connection... BUT thats not the point. within the context of the discussion... EVERY SINGLE PERSON HERE understands that its not their free connection to use. EVERY SINGLE PERSON HERE understands that the owner of a cafe doesn't provide it for idiots in the parking lot or across the street... yet you guys want to play dumb like this is the 4th grade or something.

Exactly :thumbsup

absofuckinloutely that is such bullshit that he got arrested

Amazing how some ( PP ) are stuborn .....

Let's say that instead of WiFi of a coffee shop, it is a Bar with music... Obviously, the owners of the bar expect the free music to bring them clients ( same situation as the wifi ).
Now, that music can also be heard in the parking lot of the bar ... You are there with friends ... you hear it, you sing along, you talk about that tune better then that other tune...
Did you commit a crime ??? Did you steal anything ???

Sure, the owner can be pissed that you don't come in ... he just has to put better sound insulation ( way more expensive than having a daily user/pass combination )...

The original law was intented to prevent newbies ( at home ) from having their wifi connection used for spam, phishing, etc ... Also, the newbies can be hit with overages if he has a limited plan ..

The coffe shop owner is supposed to be a busines man, not a newbie. :2 cents:

Buy a fucking cup of coffee. Just because it is free to customers doesn't mean it is free to losers.

Cities offer free wifi. A business is different. You pay buy making a purchase in the Starbucks.

What He said :thumbsup

And the larger picture is that, although I can agree that, from an ethics point of view, using the guy's UNSECURED, OPEN TO THE PUBLIC wifi is wrong because he expects it to be used only by his customers although, let's repeat it, the connection is UNSECURED, OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, the simple technological fact of the matter is that anyone passing by could use it either without knowing they should be in the cafe or assume, BECAUSE THE CONNECTION IS UNSECURED, OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, that it isn't necessary.

In a simpler form for those whose reading comprehension skills are those of a cocker spaniel: OPEN UNSECURED WIFI CONNECTION: PUBLIC ACCESS. CLOSED SECURED WIFI CONNECTION: PRIVATE ACCESS.

It's not bout the cup of coffee (anyone can buy a cup) if U'd read the thread its more about publicly accessible areas... (in my opinioin which I'm entitled to!)

and its amazing to me that Canada hasn't forced you into sterilizing yourself and your immediate family.

the low, inaudible rumble of music happening inside a club that can kinda, sorta be heard outside of that club is hardly the same as using the same quality connection outside a coffee shop for free, when the owner is OBVIOUSLY providing that connection for patrons of his establishment.

i didn't know i shouldn't have raped her.

her vagina was just sitting there doing nothing.

pointless and weak ...

Who said the sound was " inaudible " ???

Who said that the wifi connection was as good as inside ????

YOU.

I run a PAYSITE ... if I don't protect it properly , I have only myself to blame :2 cents:

I honestly expected more from you.

Right, make it inconvenient to the customer, that makes sense.

You need to find another Starbucks. Should not be tough.

Right, make it inconvenient to the customer, that makes sense.

I was surprised when my attorney did not realize that he was violating a law when he was leeching off someone else's wifi

I read the thread, and although I have never seen your name before came to the quick conclusion that you are some kind of an idiot.

Nice to meet you.

I'm going to open an oxygen bar and have everyone that walks by and breaths in some of the oxygen that leaks out arrested for not paying for it.

Maybe I'll have a mural painted on the outside facade for my customers to look at. Anyone who walks by and just looks but doesn't shop will also be arrested.

So, if someone hacks in, you don't have a problem with that, because your security wasn't good enough?

dumb

Not even the same, and you know it

A bandwidth thief is treated like a murderer.

Only in America. ;)

Maybe he's providing it so people will stick around and when they get thirsty or hungry he is banking on getting their business.

Dude... seriously. get fucking real with the retarded analogies. its not about you running a paysite and leaving security holes... its about users realizing they can get into your paysite for free and doing it. thats theft. just because you are somewhat negligent in how you run your business, doesn't give everyone else a green light to steal from you or to freely access what they FULLY KNOW is content restricted to paying members... and knowing that they aren't paying and should be.

where did i say i was a mind reader?

You know when you login to a hotel WiFi and they have the home page that loads for the first time when you are connecting? If the cafe had a page like that which states the terms of use then it would make sense.

Sorta like when you see a bathroom with a sign that says restrooms for customers only.

this is obviously an issue of people not understanding the technology and the law poorly covering this area.

regardless... that doesn't give everyone a green light to knowingly just steal because they dreamed up some 3rd grade rationalization for it.

You said "EVERY SINGLE PERSON HERE understands that the owner of a cafe doesn't provide it for idiots in the parking lot or across the street."

I'm arguing that maybe he does.

:2 cents:

I blame warez, torrents, and other P2P dealios for a lot of the sense of entitlement in this thread.

The whole "I want what I want and I don't want to have to pay for it" thing.

I mean, why earn what you partake in, when it's easier to grab it at someone else's expense?

People have been justifying stealing so long in the computing community, this is just another day at the office.

/:2 cents:

nice to meet you too, never would have thought someone like you would be showing so much ignorance, while having an intelectual conversation (i.e. Quick conclusions???) thought you'd be better than that...

Well, to each his own, have a nice day

I agree with you there:thumbsup

Gotta know your rights, I carry my attorney's card with me at all times - it has a nice little note to any LEOs/ anyone who's hassling me

works like a charm.

If you go to a Staples store, they do this. There's wifi in the store and you hav to agree to their contract before you can get on the web.

Absolutely ...

Should I call the cops ... get the guy arrested ...
If he can come in, tough I protected the access, I need to review my security.

In the case here, the coffee shop owner didn't even attempt to protect the access (ie = limit it to his customer ) ...

Amazing how every fucking discussion involving americans boils down to left and right, dems and gop ....
Scary ....

Quite the opposite, this is a case of the law not understanding the technology. The technology allows you to secure networks that you don't want just anyone to access.

winner of the idiot prize .

Don't you have a GOP meeting to attend ?

Exactly the way it should be if someone has issues users on their network.

Lets say the cafe only wants people to use the network if they spend at least $10 an hour. If they don't have a way to let people know this then I don't think the users who only bought $5 worth of coffee should be arrested. Call me crazy.

I can go into my apartment, scan for network connections, and find a half-dozen connects at any given time - at least half of which are not secured.

Does that mean I have the right to log onto one of those connects, and start running every bandwidth-heavy application I can think of?

I don't think it does. I don't think any sensible adult would think so, either.

And I also think that my personal rights and liberties in my own residence would be greater than in a public location.

So, if I shouldn't do it at home - what justifies doing it in public?

Nor did he think it was illegal to access from outside according to the article lets not forget.

Again this is just a cop with nothing to do.

If you have a store with a sign that says OPEN and an UNLOCKED door during hours when you are CLOSED will you have someone arrested for walking in?

Why have someone arrested when you have an OPEN wireless network that DOESN'T require a password or an agreement to a TOS?

Ah, whatever. My morals, your lack of morals, it's all good.

My morals state that I don't access the internet from the street or a parking lot. I actually go into the establishment and order something, and then use their connection that they offer to paying customers. Period.

If YOUR moral compass is telling you north is south and it's perfectly okay to break the law then knock yourself out, why should I care?

I predict more and more idiots are going to be getting caught and fined or otherwise punished for this though, whether *you* think it's right or not.

Everyone, really... have a nice day. :D

Exactly :)

Some cities offer free wireless to all residents. How do you know when it's free or not?

Actually, the cop felt something was wrong, he just wasn't sure.

Just like the guy in the car probably knew something was wrong.

No... but I might decide to do something about it if they decided to grab a 6-pack of beer on their way out the door.

I don't think that I would... in fact, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't. But I'm not everyone, and I certainly feel people should have the right to choose to do so or not for networks that they own.

And how do you know it doesn't?

Maybe your neighbours are leaving their wifi unsecured so that people who can't afford net access can piggy back onto their public and unsecured network because goddarn it, they're just that generous and you gotta pay it forward like Oprah says y'now?

Because god knows that anybody who has a fucking CLUE and would not want people to use their bandwidth would secure their shit up, right?

I am pretty sure you realize that networks are named. You don't think that a network named San Jose WiFi vs Sally's Coffee Shop wifi might help clue you in to whether or not it is a free, city provided wifi?

What if Bill's Coffee shop has free wireless because he knows people sticking around will soon be thirsty? The network owners need to disclose the terms or secure the network. Simple as that.

i can't beleive the guy got a $400 fine and 40 work hours.. after completely admitting to it? This is the cafes fault, not the person. It's like finding a shovel, picking it up to use it, and getting fined for "use of services"? give me a break

how do you know when every single thing you see on the street isn't free or not?

because the law and most rational people assume its not.

not according to the article

It's all about express permission, imho.

In the case of the city opening up a connect to all residents of a city I live in, I would have express permission from the city to utilize that connect.

In the case of my neighbors, unless I've discussed the matter with them, or their network is named "FREEFORALL_ENJOY" or something, I do not have that express permission - and therefore, I feel it'd be wrong of me to use it.

If I'm not paying for something that requires a cost to someone, and I do not have express permission from the someone footing the bill to use that something... it's stealing.

How well they lock it up or not has absolutely no bearing on that, I think.

When I walk into a bank and I see candies out on the table I assume it's free. I also assume that open WiFi is free.