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true, today in the provinces of the philippines poor flips are dying from influenzna because they don't have 1000 pesos to see a doctor. |
1000 pesos = approx 22usd
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Most of the universal health care system iin Europe is like it is because of Christian values. Matthew 22:39 "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"
I wonder why the religious right in the US does not want to love their neighbor and offer them help and free health care in a time of need. Maybe they are not that Christian after all? |
Comparing taking your kid to the nearest medical facility to going to Macy's when you only have K-mart money.... WOW
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and it will never be true in a philosophical sense. and does not work in a practical sense. advances in civilization occur because SOME humans made an effort. and in a perfect world, these SOME people should have some moral propensity toward those less fortunate, but the less fortunate have no "right" to the benefit. because IF everyone has the same "right" to a cultural benefit it will take away the incentive for SOME humans to excel, and all of society will suffer. (a basic flaw of communism) humans are, by nature motivated by greed and self benefit, not altruism. |
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and it is partly so expensive because MANY people do get free or almost free medical care in the usa. fact. and i look for the day when we have national health insurance at affordable rates. |
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But its up to the people of the US to decide what they want, and if they like the way it is now, then so be it. |
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In canada we have free medical - ok well - we pay through our ass in taxes - but - we dont have to worry about money. Although - the wait times for medical treatment is terrible.
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The religious right doesnt care about the poor or sick lives. They care about stopping stem cell research claiming it takes a human life. Yet they allow fertility clinics to throw unused embryos in the trash can every day and are too afraid to speak out against that. They are for "life" when it's politically convenient and nothing more.
The unborn. Not the ones with diseases. Lets make that extra clear. oh, plus they hate gays. Cant forget that since we're gearing up for a presidential election... lol |
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Doctors follow a code of ethics called the hypocratic oath. This means they are not supposed to deny service to anyone based on their financial status or many other reasons. |
I heard Moore's next movie is going to be on movie piracy.
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my take on the whole issue is.. if your dead your not paying taxes.. thus its gotta be better to keep people alive :)
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Since I haven't seen the movie and it's already been brought up here, did he talk about all the free care the US gives illegals? Our little town hospital is seriously looking at closing down because they are going under w/ unpaid bills from illegals - whom they legally have to treat. |
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well to be real the problem isnt the illegals .. its the funding the hospital gets.. hospitals should get enough money to treat their caseload period. illegals or no illegals. the hypocratic oath certainly doesn't include a disclaimer for only u.s. citizens infact it goes one step further and includes illegals. , and besides that illegals are pumping money into the economy not distracting from it as far as i can see. If they are in the country they are likely working and likely paying taxes of some sort. the problem is census figures dont always work especially in areas with high influx in people. Hospitals are like education.. there is no reason why not to completely fund it. it pays off in taxes, if we keep people alive they can pay more taxes , if we educate them , the smarter they get the more money in taxes they will pay. Canada should simply train every child from 1st grade to be doctors , then become the worlds hospital..:1orglaugh:thumbsup |
wow. It's very obvious that many of you have never had something serious go wrong with a family member.
Insurance plans are GREAT... until something serious goes wrong, and then the HMO's start searching for ways not to pay. Baddog, please don't respond to this thread until you've seen the movie. Your ignorance is driving us over the edge. The mother called 911, the AMBULANCE drove to the closest hospital. The daughter was treated, until they found out that something was seriously wrong, at which point her insurance denied her any more services unless they moved her to an "in-network" hospital. By the time she got there, the daughter was pretty much dead. Death could have been prevented. |
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Affordable health care (insurance) is one thing, but capitalism is why there are strides in medicine. Precisely why communism doesn't work. You don't give incentive to people to come up with better ideas. |
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Perhaps illegals SHOULDN'T be the problem, but at least in my town they are. I rather doubt the only major medical center in a 30 mile radius wants to shut down. Perhaps where you live the illegals pay taxes and such. Here they live 20 to a room, don't pay taxes and right now don't seem to be paying their medical bills. |
Disclaimer - I'm not American myself, so what do I know... however:
from the post here I gather that insurance companies are greedy bastards making massive wealth on people's sufferring, ripping everybody off and getting away with it. Question is - why don't you people who complain start your own insurance company? Everything will turn around for you. You will be the ones feeding your pockets, you will be the invincible ones. From what you are talking about it really does look like medical insurance is the best business to be in. Or did I missunderstand something? |
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Isnt it illegal for an Emergency Room to turn anyone away on the grounds that they cant pay? I have been riding freestyle BMX since I was a kid and have been to more emergency rooms and hospitals than I can count. Lost count of the bones I have broken, and the amount of stitches I have ever gotten. In plain sight in every emergency room I have been in is a sign saying, they will treat EVERYONE who comes in the door, regardless of race, religion etc etc, and regardless of ability to pay. They generally dont turn people away.. Not saying our system doesnt need some major fixing, but in emergencies you can always get treated. Seems crazy that a kid died like this. Need to watch the movie, I guess. |
So let me get this straight - Americans would like for the US Federal Government, who has thus far screwed up, overspent and under performed almost every single service they've touched, control your health instead of fixing some administrative problems in a few hospitals?
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If people are too sick to work or don't have the education to be productive then the community is not benefiting. |
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Colin, I'm with you - let me pay for my own medical insurance and care, let me see my own doctor when I want, and yes, the bear DID have a boo boo in his front paw but I think he's OK now :thumbsup BTW, I have also dealt with having to pay for medical care outside of insurance. In 2000 I had over $25K in medical bills due to a bleeding ulcer. I'd still rather do that than depend on the US government for my medical care. |
Originally Posted by Peaches
So let me get this straight - Americans would like for the US Federal Government, who has thus far screwed up, overspent and under performed almost every single service they've touched, control your health instead of fixing some administrative problems in a few hospitals? This myth that the govt fucks everything up, talk to old people ask them does their ss check come on time? You will hear yes.Ask about Welfare checks you will hear yes.Medicare and Medicaid are rated higher in customer satisfaction than private insurance.We are 24th in the world for life expectancy. Its not a few problems, my father is dealing with this now in treating his cancer. They suck if it wasnt for my mothers connections.He would truly be in a world of shit. |
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This comes down simply to what kind of world one wants to live in. You want to live in a world where you take some of my "hard-earned money" and give it to someone "less fortunate" to help pay their bills. OK, I respect that. That is fine that is the way you want the world. I prefer to live in a world where people pay their own bills and the government is as small as possible. I can live with a few small safety nets but "universal healthcare" is too much for me to swallow. Which way works better? Well, they both work. Depends on who you ask. You get DIFFERENT results. Ah, the nature of politics. |
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We can ALL choose to be self insured if you don't like insurance companies. Just put what you'd pay for insurance into an interest bearing account and hope you don't go over what you have in there. I bet, instead, you're happy paying in premiums less than insurance will pay out. :thumbsup Personally I think catastrophic insurance should be required like homeowner's and auto insurance is. |
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That speaks volumes to me about the quality of care provided in the US. The movies main points are those who are insured are not quite insured. When the claims become to much dollar wise the insurance company will do "ANYTHING" it possibly can to deny your claim and not pay out. Thus there are millions or people who thought they were covered and paid their monthly fees only to be screwed royally by their HMO and forced into bankruptcy to pay for their health or worse deteriorate into death. The movie has an example about a man that had kidney cancer and needed a bone marrow transplant from his brother to survive. The HMO denied the claim because they deemed it experimental. The wife worked at the hospital as a nurse and the HMO had their main office at the hospital and still was screwed over. The husband died because of the HMO's denial. |
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Then again it seems you still may have the same issue with some HMO's anyway, so I guess so be it. Good luck and stay indoors a lot. |
My hospital offers zero discount for paying in full. I asked if I paid my entire bill in full, would I get a discount? Answer was No.. Peaches suggested it and I asked about it. The woman DID mention to me that she doesnt know how so many people she helps only make $800 a month (the HINT HINT WINK WINK was clear as a bell). I'm not interested in such "financial aid" as that. I would have plunked down 50% of my bill GLADLY in cash if they had offered it though!
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My father had a heart attack in the UK many years ago, got excellent care and it didnt cost him a dime. Based on what I saw when my Dad was just in the hospital from the attitudes of 30 dollar an hour nurses to food I wouldnt feed a stray dog things have to change and this was crawford long not some dump. |
My "physical therapy" consisted of a woman walking into my room, putting socks on me, and having me walk 10 feet down a hallway. It took about 2 minutes, and I was billed $125 for it.
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My daughter was in the hospital for almost a month last year. I wrote a check.Thanks for your concern. |
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