The reality is the government spends so much on health care with your tax payer dollars as it is, and if they switched to a national system the extra cost would be a bit more the first decade and then level off to todays levels as the preventative care started to take effect. And then you got everyone covered and not afraid to goto a doctor early in the stages of illness and people would live longer and be happier. There has been impact studies done that show that in fact the US government would spend LESS money per year on health care if they went to the national system.

I personally think the British system is best. Good national service as well as the ability to seek private care if you have the means to do so. I also love the flat rate for prescriptions.

Canada is great if you need immediate help but if you need elective surgery it can take awhile to get it done. If you had the means it would be nice to seek private care and have it done when you want it done.

Well I am glad you have the means to be able to handle a $500k hospital bill without blinking.

The closest hospital to my house offers it as a normal service to everyone. Pretty sweet :-)

Most of them have a fuck you attitude.Went to a really good eye doctor,I hadnt been to one in a long time and I make my living with my eyes so I went. Now since my dad worked for a major health ins company at the time I knew what they paid him for an exam $35, he was charging me $150. I asked about a discount for cash,I was told the price is the price.

Mannnnnnnnnnnn no fair depressing someone! I call no fair on you!

Again, I want to keep big government OUT of my medical choices. I want to get the insurance *I* want and go to the doctors *I* want. If I can not pay for socialized medicine with my taxes and keep my personal plan/doctors, then go for it :)

Now you're talking. We should cut back on the robbery! less gov't healthcare. Lower taxes! I'm ready to go on the campaign trail.

I was surprised myself. I just moved here. Just happened to be the hospital I went to when my daughter spiked a 103 (yes, she did). They also offered me 1/2 off for upfront payment for an operation she needs to put a tube in her ears.

The small bits of info. on a "national" system I've heard about so far all say if a person wants to buy private insurance, they can go right ahead. Nobody has said that if they do so, they avoid the inevitable "tax" though.

I guess like if you own a home you are paying school taxes, but you can still choose a private school.

I say the bottom line is that it is irrefutable that at some point or another we are all going to need to use the health care system. When we do, we can only hope that it takes care of us and does not run us into the ground financially.

Over the years I have heard and read many a story about people getting screwed by their insurance companies. When this happens, it not only ruins that person, but also their family and friends who rally to help support that person. Sure they could sue the company, but everyone know where that would lead...further financial disaster.

I am sure that there are also many good stories about insurance companies helping out people as well, but they go unnoticed because that is not the kind of news that we like to read and talk about. Who wants to sit around and talk about how Johnny got hooked up by his insurance company?

So where does that leave us with respect to the debate between a private system and a public one?

As far as I have seen and heard, the only real plus to a privatized system is that you can have faster service in a nicer place. Great. On the flip side, you could be saddled with an endless list of medical bills.

On to a public system...sure there could be longer wait times and yes the room you are in may not be lined with gold, but at least you are going to get the treatment you need without having to worry about getting a heart attack when you see how much everything cost.

When you look at both sides of this debate and the fact that it is in essence a black and white issue it seems to me that it comes down to a show down of who is most patriotic rather than a debate over what system of health care is better. It is no different than the debate over guns in the US from my perspective. Some feel the undying need to rally around the flag and others see that there is room to make positive changes.

BTW In Canada and Britain you can still pick the doctors you see. I pick my family doctor. When I tore my knee and needed ACL surgery I picked my surgeon. I asked for the Canadian national ski team surgeon and was given him. I also asked for a cadaver instead of my own hamstring to replace the ligament and they flew it in from Florida for me. Total cost of the exploritory surgery to confirm it was torn, surgery, cadaver, 3 nights in hospital, 4 months therapy, and 3 follow up visits with the surgeon was $125 for the device I wrapped my knee in that pumped ice water through to control the swelling and the pain killers.

Its a myth that socialized medicine you don't get to pick your doctors. Now whether the US would follow suit who the hell knows.

All I know is when I lived in FL, I had insurance but I got nickeled and dimed all the time with deductibles and copays etc. I had nothing major happen to me thankfully during that time so never had to ask the HMO to pay for something major.

Then you turn into a 3rd world country.

I fail to see why it has to be one or the other, why there must be only private or only public hospitals. The major issue is that there should be plenty of public hospitals with great care and high paid professional staff.

If someone wants a king size hospital bed or a golden door knob then they could go to a private hospital and foot the bill themselves.

The public hospitals must offer as good professional care as the private ones but the private hospitals should only differentiate themselves on luxury, not quality of treatment.

In my town when you reach retirement age you longer pay school taxes, with the realization that you're not going to be using them.

Though in essence, paying for a good school system means your house is going to be worth more if/when you sell it. I'm not sure the same can be said about paying into a national healthcare system :thumbsup

Fast service from the private system is a myth. My Dad was told he had a fast growing cancer and the specialist wouldn't be available for at least 2 weeks.My Mom who works for a big shot Doctor called him and he made calls and then he was seen the next business day. Now if a person doesnt work in health care with connections they would be fucked. They have health care with one of the largest Health ins companies in America. My wife and I have KP she had to see a endocrinologist this was Feb she was told first appointment was August.So until then she had to see a nurse practitioner, if increases keep going the way they are, we will be paying $1000 a month for this shitty service.

We're just fat.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity

Actually there are strides in medicine because universities recruit great thinkers to do research and teach there. It may interest you to know that one of the best med schools in the US designed it's program based on the McMaster (yes, here in Canada) medical schools approach. Oh, and the really great thinkers and innovators have traditionally not been interested in making $$$ off what they have created, they take pride in knowing that they are an innovator. Most of the people that are making money off ideas have stolen them from someone else, look at Bill Gates, etc.

So you think if the US cuts taxes and government healthcare expenses our industries, capital markets, incomes and financial institutions will collapse?

Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, Merck, Bayer, etc etc.

But then Sanofi-Aventis is French.

America sucks balls.

I think if you cut government health care so that the emergancy rooms have to turn people away because they wont be getting any money back from the government you will end up with a society where major diseases become rampant. Then you end up with big business without the healthy labor it needs to operate and succeed with and it becomes a domino effect over time. For society to function and grow you need healthy citizens.

I just called the financial aid woman who told me "no discount" last week and pressed her on the issue. I told her several people in my line of work who are self pay say they get quite a discount if they pay in one lump payment. This time she told me she wasn't authorized to offer me anything, but to call billing department and ask about a courteousy discount and maybe they will do something. Damnit! Why couldnt she tell me that last time?????

I strongly disagree with that. America has a ton of fantastic things.

Profit doesn't motivate them to do better it motivates to cut corners and fuck people. I read a book called sick and it showed health insurance companies got fucked up once they went public. Then the shareholder became more important then the policy holder.

Is this an argument against what I said?

When was the last time you went to the emergency room for a polio vaccination? And by the way, I didn't say "no" government healthcare. I very carefully said "less". Any government programs for innoculations would be high on my list of keepers.

i dont disagree. i often have this argument with people when talking about the "evil" drug companies.. and why they make such huge profits from cheap drugs.. if we left it up to ourselves to fund research into drugs they would never get invented ..

but thats beside the point.. as a doctor you take an oath to treat everyone equally . period , there are no waivers.

there will always be incentives for doctors regardless of who they are paid by, we just have to realise this.. you gotta pay doctors a reasonable rate. this is the incentive.

Pointing out the other side of medical research. Big profit seeking corporations. glorious :thumbsup

It was the billing department I dealt with at my hospital too. I didn't know they had "financial aid". In my case they called me though.

Well, this woman called me about the aid thing. Gee if only I made less than $25k per year I'd have been all set! LOL. I did ask her directly last week though about a discount if I paid in full and she didnt say "talk to billing", she flat out told me No.

I just hate being in debt for anything, so I want this over with.

illegals arent the problem, if those were all legal residents who couldnt pay then the problem wouldnt exist ? the problem would still exist , thus its the funding the hospital gets in not adequate for the amount of people they treat..

when i say illegals pay taxes what i mean is that the money is still coming back into the system , they buy gas , its taxed, they buy goods and services just like the rest of americans. all taxed.. theres 2 ways illegals pay employment tax as well. many people actually dont realise that alot of illegals work under a fake ss number , meaning they are taxed just like the rest of us , only they dont get the taxes back at the end of the year , so they are paying more tax than the rest of us. the rest of them are working "under the table" and the boss man is usually a legal american who pays extra taxes on the extra money he makes by using under the table workers.

I'm not saying it always works out but its not like the money vanishes..

example

Farmer joe has 20 legal employees making 10k per year each picking fruit.

Farmer joe fires 10 legal employees hires 10 illegals to replace them. at 5k each

Now theres only 10 employees paying taxes. but farmer joe is making an extra 50k in profit from the saved labour costs and he pays taxes on the 50k. the gov is still getting their income tax..

I thought it was a good movie. If you payed close attention to the movie, it took on a lot of myths that opponents of universal care often cite as reasons for not having it. Unfortunately, a lot of people just don?t get it is a problem until it somehow impacts them on a personal level. If you?re in good health, and don?t have the need for anything other than routine stuff you won?t think there is anything wrong with the health care system in the U.S.

The last time I had health care insurance it was through cobra which I paid over $1000 a month for the full 18 months. Prior to that running out I applied to every private health insurance company that offers private polices in my state. I was turned down by every last one of them. Not a one of them would offer me a policy at any price. I have high blood pressure that is still higher than normal even with medication. It is a genetic condition as numerous people in my family have the same condition. My only option is to give up self-employment and work for a much lower income in the private sector if I want health insurance. I won?t do that.

Having worked in management in the private sector, I have seen 3 separate private sector employers dump employees when they or a family member develops a serious health issue to avoid paying an huge increase in group health insurance premiums or outright cancelation of the group policy. Of course the employee is never told that he/she is getting dumped for health reasons, he or she just suddenly starts getting bad performance reviews and they are usually gone within 6 months to a year. So even to those of you with employer provided insurance there is a very good chance of you getting canned if you or someone in your family (covered by the employer?s policy) develops a serious health care issue such as cancer or HIV.

Our private healthcare system in the U.S. wasn?t so bad 25 years ago, but a lot has changed since then. Back then a lot of Hospitals and healthcare providers were nonprofits that weren?t into making a profit. A lot of health insurance companies were mutual companies (they were owned by the policyholders not shareholders) so the primary goal wasn?t making a huge profit for shareholders. Also there weren?t as many layers of profit takers as there are today. 25 years ago in a lot of cases it was just the Dr. that treated you that was looking to make a profit. The hospital was a non-profit that did everything in house, and your insurance company was a mutual company that looked out for your best interests not the shareholders.

In a typical hospitalization treatment scenario today you now have all of these people/organizations that expect to make a profit off you every time you seek treatment at a hospital.
The Dr. that treated you
The Hospital
The Private Management Company that has been contracted to manage the hospital
The Private hospital Billing Company that has been contracted out to do the hospital?s billing
The private pharmacy the hospital contracts with to provide your meds
The billing company the pharmacy contracted with to do billing
The private company that your insurance company has hired to audit your bill for such things as customary charges
And then there are a whole host of private contractor?s that work on commission for the Insurance company looking for ways to deny or partially deny your claim that only get paid if they manage to fuck you out of something. Of course every hospital is different and there might be more or less layers for any given treatment or hospital.

I prefer big government to big business that currently dictates all medical choices.

:sadcrying Heart felt condolences to the family. :sadcrying

No use crying over spilt milk! We all are the same and it can happen anywhere, anytime and to anyone no matter who we are USA, Canada, Europe, third world country.

Just spare some moments to the people who face such things in their lives.
:waaaaahh

Micheal Moore is very good at promoting his own agenda and leaving half of the story out. It's up to people to find the truth about the other half and then make an educated decision. The problem is people believe Michael Moore's word 100% as being true.

Amen to that. It's pretty fucking sad that the only real option is to pick a lesser of the two evils.

At least you can vote the bad goverment out, especially if it is controlled at the state level.

Good luck trying to vote the big business out!

I sent an email to Lou Dobbs about keeping illegal aliens out of Canada

WOW!
Must be nice! Hope you don't ever have a MAJOR medical emergency.
Or an ongoing serious illness!

Did Michael Moore make up this one that happened a few days ago:
http://video.knbc.com/player/?id=119238