100!

Please do not be alarmed. I am merely an overtired poster wandering about the boards aimlessly. I mean you no harm. Just give me food and water and I will be on my way. Thank you for your time.

Actually I have been thinking about getting rid of my TGP...I mean i get like 7k a day to it but hardly any sign ups. It takes a crafty guy to manage a free porn site and get sign ups and I am not hat guy I have figured out!

Aa boneprone and Mark said on first page, quality is the solution.
If you make a pay site with some overused pics, some crap videos and ugly chicks chating, who looks more bored than trying to get you horny, then for sure tgp sites are your enemy, because some of the tgp got better content than tons of paysites. The surfer will pay por quality porn not available at free sites. Why you don't make a revolution of paysite owners about buying great exclusive content, great exclusive videos, hire exclusive models to shoot them (nobody could watch that model unles signing at your site) hire good looking chicks for the videochat and pay them to make ppl horny, some of that chat girls seems realy bored insted of excited. Actualice content everyweek, actualice tour and sign pages designs, etc.
Do you really want to get money forever from a crap site, not actualizing it for ages? I bet big paysites make millions profit, why not to spend a bit more to make them allways fresh insted of buying yourself expensive cars and then bashing the free porn?
Free sites won't ever have live content, exclusive content, etc so your effort must be there, to make quality sites much better than the free sites around. Not any bussines could last forever if you inly want to get profit and don't expend anything to adapt it to new tendencies of the market.

I don't think that free pics that can be also found easily at kazaa, irc, etc really could hurt a big quality paysite, of course you can't try to make profit just selling only some pics that are avalaible for free and even easily than surfing in the mess of crap designed paysites, where is even hard to navigate, or are slow because are hosted on cheap bandwith servers.

Don't be fool guys, the big money on this biz is not made by ustgp/avs/toplists/free sites owners, it's made by paysite owners so they must improve their sites insted of banning ours. If they would spend only a small part of what they earn thanks to us, all the biz would be much more profitable for all us.

Nice to see the king of Lizards Zilla here!
It really does make my day when he wanders in here and makes a post like that!!

hehehehe.

Hey zilla, you should post more here!
We love ya baby!!

Missed ya in Florida!
Vegas 2003 the lizard man and Da Bone 4-Life January Internext.

I own both TGP's and an affiliate program. I think the problem is lack of knowledge on the part of a typical gallery maker. How many times has a TGP owner seen a sponsor being promoted with the WRONG content. This isn't gonna sell if the galleries are not properly designed. I can see why hosted galleries are becoming popular for this reason.

Secondly I think that the responsibility (if they choose to do so) would be for the sponsorship programs to not accept affiliates that do not promote their "exclusive" content. Nothing forces a sponsor to take a signup that came from a gallery showing pink or no pink. They do so because it makes them money.

The responsibility lies in the sponsor on what they want to accept and not accept. Personally my sites convert well off TGP traffic, maybe it is because I promote them off TGP traffic so that is what I have to go by or maybe I just got lucky.

I agree with the "teasing" of surfers because my galleries have made more money since I have decided to go that route with them, but I think part of the issue is the content the sponsorship programs give out to promote, I am guilty of giving out content that shows to much as well. I think we need to look more at the sponsorship programs and get those working together instead of forcing our main traffic source (at least mine anyway) to change their ways of doing business.

Just my :2 cents:

AJ

Hey Icy, some insights from an insider to paysites...

To say that we do not invest our money or do not make any effort to stay competitive by trying to constantly come out with higher quality products or models that are exclusive to us, is very unfair.

We are a big team here who busts our butts day in day out to achieve the best we can and offer honest products for the many webmaster who have decided to work with us.

There are the editors, photographers, designers, marketing guys and even lawyers in our team who spend countless hours trying to do the greatest possible job, and I am not even mentioning our proof-readers who will not let updates go live before making sure English is well written in all our copy. I don't want to live out our team of image processors / color correctors who we have trained hard for an extensive period fo time so that none of our pictures have any cast whatsoever. Oh, did I mention the staff people who takes care of all models' make- ups so that they look the best in their sessions or the video editors who work 12 hours a day straight to come up with the best possibly quality videos? How about flying in models from any part of the world, all expenses paid, to have exclusive content shot so that our audience remains loyal? We not only show respect to the many customers who have been following us for years (yes) but also for anyone who approaches us with a sincere interest to promote us, like many here do.

I can personally testify that with all the limitations we may have, we go out of our way to make partners happy and carefully listen to their input, just because we understand that we are all in this together. It is hard and difficult for everyone. That paysite owners are raking it by the millions is just a myth.

roberto / score-cash

Roberto, of course not everybody works that way, but if you got great sites, updated, etc congratz, i bet you will be getting lots of signups and not complaning about too many free porn pics.
Why new programs/sites gets lots of signups? easy answer, they are new and fresh, so if you keep your paysites allways fresh, you will keep making money for a long time.
We tgp/freesites/avs webmasters are just promoting products, if what we promote is crap, the sales will be crap, and we can't work on the product, thats your work, we work on the sales, if you complain about how we sell, we could complain about your work too.
Ppl will look for free porn anyways in the net, better to show it in our webs where there are also links to sponsors, that from kazaa and so.
The more complains from paysite owners, come from the fact that tgptraffic don't keep the membership after the trial, why? the tgp did his work sending you the surfer to sign for the trial, if he doesn't stay, it's your fault for not offering better content, better design, more variety, etc that the one showed at the tgp.
So before complaining about the others work, look at yours, mybe the chain broke there.

Hey, Boneprone, thanks for the kind words, bro :-) Yeah, I drop in here once in a while and throw out some of my idiotic thoughts if a thread really grabs me.

Regarding this thread...well, obviously I am going to disagree with it because I own a TGP and from my experience I see paysites making a ton of money from Thumbzilla traffic, and I see plenty of webmasters over the years making money from Thumbzilla traffic. And, I can tell you straight out that I have never had a complaint from any of my sponsors. Never. As a matter of fact, sponsors are usually happy if I decide to promote their programs on Thumbzilla. So, naturally, when I saw RogerV's post, I was taken aback.

I honestly did sign up for Porn Kings just over a week ago and was planning to start promoting their new program, I think it is called freefreeprogram.com, on Thumbzilla sometime this week. It looked to me like it could do quite well on Thumbzilla, and so I was going to really push it and see how it did. And, I can honestly say that there are many webmasters, newbies and experienced, who, when they see Thumbzilla pushing a program, try it out for themselves, too. This is something of which my sponsors are quite aware...they know that if a big TGP pushes their program, it is going to cause a lot of other webmasters to try pushing that program on their sites, too.

Thumbzilla and other TGPs provide a service to webmasters and to surfers. We post about 200 galleries per day that were submitted to us by webmasters. On each of those galleries, those webmasters are promoting a sponsor or his or her own paysite. I think that most of the sponsors out there are quite aware that a large percentage of the signups that they get to their paysites came either directly or indirectly from TGP traffic.

Nevertheless, it is clear that there are some sponsors out there that actually do consider TGPs to be the enemy! I guess that RogerV is one of them. So, I am really glad I saw this thread before I started pushing his program on Thumbzilla. If there is one thing that is very important to me in both personal and business relationships, it is loyalty. I have sponsors on Thumbzilla that have been there since the day I started the site! I am very loyal to them and they are very loyal to me. Some of them are very big and well-known. They appreciate the value of a Thumbzilla! They are quite aware that not only has Thumbzilla made them quite a lot of money, but also many webmasters, newbies and experienced alike, have signed up for their programs simply because they have seen Thumbzilla using those programs for so long and they figure, well, if it works for Thumbzilla, maybe it will work for me, too. These sponsors have made Thumbzilla a lot of money, but Thumbzilla has made them a lot of money, too! So...I am loyal to them, and they are loyal to me.

From what I have read in this thread, I have come to realize that it would be stupid of me to promote RogerV's program on Thumbzilla because 1) he does not know the value of a TGP, 2) he resents my site, and 3) he could never have a sense of loyalty to me and therefore would never appreciate the money that Thumbzilla would make for him.

That is a shame! But, all is not lost: as I indicated before, there are many big sponsors out there who, unlike RogerV, have the vision to see the value of TGPs.

Obviously, I am biased, but in my opinion many of the TGPs are the backbone of the adult internet! They keep the traffic flowing and glowing ;-) Certainly there are TGPs out there that deal in pretty low quality traffic, but there are many others that have solid, honest, productive traffic...they are the ones that I am talking about.

Anyway, I have mouthed off enough, and I am sure there are many of you who will disagree with what I said, but that doesn't mean you are right ;-) Kidding, okay??

Boneprone, I am not sure yet, but I may be in Vegas in January. Have a good one, bro, and maybe we'll hook up then!

Icy, I don't get it. I am not trying to initiate a confrontation. Perhaps I am just misunderstanding your point.

If I read your post correctly you tend to think paysites VS TGPs. And it that scheme, you assume paysites are doing a poor, sloppy job, you assume paysites blame TGPs too much for their own low retention rates and in addition, you assume paysites are making shitloads of money out of the effort of distributors.

The message I tried to convey here is that there are some myths in those statements and I used our example to make my point.

We have enjoyed good working relationships with distributors because we value their contribution as chanels of ditribution goes, and we like to believe they respect the effort we instill in all what we do. We both gain from this and it goes both ways.

Briefly, we are TGP friendly and have understood long ago our own contribution to the game, by everyday raising the bar when it comes to quality. Our partners may make money through rebills only if WE can retain those customers they got for us. We've been responsible for own stuff since we started.

I only tried to bring you closer to what goes on at the paysite level...not sure about your answer. All is well though.

roberto / score-cash

Let's get this thread moving again. It started out strong last night, but everyone went to bed.

Please tell me when sleazydream posted other people's galleries (other than paid placements) - I NEVER EVER posted free galleries on sleazydream - so I guess you are an idiot.

bump

Baby steps guys...Rome wasn't built in a day.

How about a higher payout for those that do not use hardcore, or those that censor it...I think black boxes with the words, "Member's Only" would help conversions alot.

thumbzilla, where are you!?

:1orglaugh

So you still wanna do this? I have an idea about something that might help. Or it may not. If you wanna hear it, hit me up on ICQ (1566665)

The good old days. well i guess 2257 is taking care of this. I knew if we didn't the gov would.

:thumbsup

Karups 2257 Statement:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=477889

I love companies who protect models instead of worrying only about the bottom line. Perfect example of LONG TERM THINKING.

Who bumped this old thread?

I totally agree my new program will have the same 2257 setup.

Karups are good people and good friends of mine :thumbsup

the same person who started it

another blast from the past

nice read, I must have missed the previous bump on this thread in 03 :upsidedow

I wasn't against tgp's etc. I just saw this coming.

Everyone is getting discouraged about 2257

Look at the bright side. A lot of programs will have non-sexual explicit promo materials
For banners, galleries, HPA?s and FPA?s etc.

This can only benefit the industry in the long haul. Like I have been saying for years and gave up because I realized I was wasting my breath in the past.

The benefit of this would be, Surfers will be more likely to try out a low trial so there will be better conversions and since they can?t see hardcore they will most likely convert to a full membership and retain longer.
Aside from kids being able to see it free...

Wow.. this thread is scarry..

Its almost 3 years old and all that I said on the 2nd page is coming true.

I saw the writing on the wall plus I have lots of friends in high places :winkwink: Lets just say alot of people love porn and most of them have children.


And you must also see the future as well :winkwink:

BINGO.. THERE IT IS.

3 years later and it has begun.

Too bad the US is not going to see as much free porn as before..

Of course not from most sites that is..

But some, with thier connections have the ability to get the proper documentation to continue to use hardcore thumbs as secondary producers on thier sites.. Some but not all..

ITs good to have family.

this thread is getting big

It's nowhere near so simple...

The fingers of two hands are probably about enough to count the really excellent membership sites. You just might be able to find 100 that are good.

The exact numbers are a matter of perception, but I doubt many would argue that most of the product we attempt to foist off on people is second-rate and over-priced. Because we could get away with that back in '96, we are still trying to get away with it now and the only reason standards have improved at all is because TGP's and links lists started pointing at more and better content than most paysites provided. But do you seriously imagine that if this hadn't happened we could still be selling the same crap we were back then?

So the first level of unreality in this business is that we provide junk and then wonder why trials don't convert or why members only rebill for a month or two. In '96 there was a fraction of the competition there is now and the vast majority of surfers had never bought a membership. Today, thousands of sites are fighting over a relatively small number of newbies and most of our potential customers have been disappointed at least once. It's a joke to imagine we can solve our problems by tweaking the traffic but leaving the product as is. If you want a clear distinction between free content and member content, the answer is to improve the latter, not waste your time on some doomed attempt to stifle the former.

The second level of unreality is the apparent belief that everyone looking at free porn is a potential customer. Strictly according to the meaning of the word "potential" yes, but in terms of presenting a realistic opportunity to extract money from them on a regular basis, no. At the very least, not by simply denying them free porn. Indeed, I am convinced that if free porn were softcore only, most of the curious would drift back to mainstream sites far more quickly and therefore many fewer of those who did not initially intend to spend money would be around long enough to be tempted to do so.

And finally, you cannot ignore the market forces by which someone perceives a demand and satisfies it, because the internet is global. As is happening with 2257, if you limit the ability of one part of the market to satisfy a demand, another part will take up the slack. Thus it is with free porn: it is an obvious demand that someone will always be happy to accomodate. Rather than play King Canute and tell the tide to stay back, you would be better off figuring out how to monetize the traffic more effectively.

General question.
Do you think tgp owners with their servers outside of the states would follow along with the tamer galleries, or take advantage of u.s. based tgp's complying?

Very, I remember reading this thread a long time ago when I first got into Adult.

It is simple just difficult to regulate worldwide. which is the reason it got out of control and thats why they are regulating things now, of course there will always be people picking up the slack thats business and people break the law all the time.

I really think the rest of the world will soon take action. the US was just the first.

I know for a fact exclusive content won't retain or convert better from my own resources from the past 9 years and we can argue back and fourth its just my opionion and experience . But I do understand it helps generate traffic because of a fresh face factor for TGP's which last about a second till the next fresh face is released. And I agree that they forced programs to produce exclusive content but who cares when surfers can get it free. thats really my point.

I'm for new exclusive content. I just think we need to stop giving away the cow we need to just give them a nipple or two..

Very true. I've talked to friends who want me to give them free memberships, or content, and when I ask them about which sites they are member's of, etc. They all say, "none. you can get all you need for free. why pay?".

There you have it folks.

While I think some of the posts in this thread have the best intentions of trying to close the pandora's box, I doubt it would happen. Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking your efforts. If you could get the "big players" to do it, and a number of sponsors, then you would have a good start, and would start bending other's to comply to get the main traffic streams.

Since this industry IS so divided, you'd probably get a "clean" vs "rouge" splitting of the two. For anyone who wants to remain in the game.

It's one of those lesson's I learned long ago as a salesman. You would have some people who just can't sell without a promotion, or free, or some kinda offer. They can't sell on the merits of the content. Their favorite stars. That their site's better. They have to give their traffic the nude, the penetration, and so on. They just can't function, nor understand how to, much less want to, conform to the true selling tactics.

You have what they want. They are visiting your site. And YOU are the only one who can give it to them in the quality, and quanity they are looking for.

:disgust

the problem isn't the amount of hardcore shown - it's the lack of salesmanship.

old school people want a marketplace back with no compitation that has no clue how to sell - and that isn't going to happen. I make incredible money showing MASSIVE amounts of free porn - and i know lots now these days that do as well. I've sceen tons of old school guys try tgp and not make any money and they just blaim it on too much free porn - it's total bullshit. it's cause there's people that know how to sell out there now - even with ULTRA TIGHT relgulation - we're STILL HERE - we'll STILL kick the ass off all you old school guys if the business tightens up cause we have better sales pitches. that's what it boils down to. that's why you can't compete anymore.

dinosaurs die.

I have a suspicion you replied to what you assumed I wrote, rather than actually reading it, because I didn't mention exclusive content anywhere. In fact if I had, I would have said that I don't believe - per se - exclusive content sells any better than non-exclusive. Nor did I equate more with better anywhere: I would far rather post a gallery with a half dozen imaginatively photographed pics than 30 of same-old, same-old poses and run-of-the-mill models. But where are they?

Apart from the sites which simply don't deliver on specific promises, we are selling a fantasy and one question is whether more than a handful can deliver on that, even with the best of intentions. In other words, do we ever think about what we need to provide if we seriously expect someone to come back month after month? Surely not just uploading more sets of ordinary models shot by merely competent photographers?

Lots of things could do the trick, many of them to be found in the well-run, model-operated sites. But what is a natural part of these sites doesn't scale up well and loses its magic in the process. Solidly themed sites can work too, but only until they begin repeating themselves or there are so many second-rate copies that the whole sector becomes discredited. Great photographers. Super models. Also answers, but for how many?

Maybe large-scale, "corporate" porn can only deliver something that will always fall short of surfers' expectations and therefore is stuck with overly aggressive marketing, cross-selling and all the rest which in other circumstances they probably should drop like a hot brick. If true, that's bad news for them, because surfers will continue to build up resistance and become better and better at identifying something they have tried and know they don't want. Meanwhile, those who use free content to sell will follow the market and put more of their efforts into promoting the specialist sites which aren't driving their surfers away.

I suspect that over the next few years a certain type of sponsor is going to come under a lot more pressure than will the providers of free porn.

tgps suck

that about sums it up.

Alienq says, Wired guy is correct.

he also says, It wont last.
Good idea for a kicker but long term it wont hold is what Alienq thinks.

He says we are dealing with the world and the worlds supply of adult entertainment is not just on American laws.

ALienq also says that Sleazy is wrong.

Free porn hurts the bottom line.
alienq says, Face it sleazy...
No middle men = higher profits.
But since middle men are around there is no combating the bar they are all willing to drop with history as the track record as proof.

ALienq also says that Sleazy is wrong.

Free porn hurts the bottom line.
alienq says, Face it sleazy...
No middle men = higher profits.
But since middle men are around there is no combating the bar they are all willing to drop with history as the track record for proof.

Didnt read the whole thread, but if all the sponsors got together and agreed to take the short term hit until the tgp traffic guys went to no hardcore thumbs and gals it would be HUGE and I mean HUGE for the industry. Could you imagin the gallery click throughs and and the production on the tgps. I would be unreal.

Nearly impossibe task however.

Great in theory...but I don't think it's feasible. It will be almost impossible to get the cooperation of so many webmasters.

cept i have paysites and no middle man. :1orglaugh

Just for fun....
 

OK, so tomorrow someone should Chameleon submit to 1000 or so TGP's a brand spanking new "censored" gallery and report back on what happens to their gallery acceptance rate. Literally put the word "censored" over anything "pink" insertions, etc.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm curious enough to try it from a throw away URL/account.

Adwords, overture etc. No content whatsoever.

Like it used to be in 97 and 98 :thumbsup till everyone starting giving everything away

RogerV - you are a man with ideas ahead of our time. Good call back then!

Oy--