Bake, are you ready to join the family?

napster's demise gave rise to many other peer-to-peers. hurt the big tgp's - and new ones will pop up after 5 mins. russia will replace holland as trafficville. after 5.2 secs there will be 28 new affiliate programs that accept the traffic from those new tgps... as for processors - it is both unconstitutional and commercially wrong to refuse service in order to help the formation of a monopoly. but regardless - there will be 14 new processors after 2 days - who will accept and service this new system. you will never be able to shut down tgp's or refuse billing to other sites etc. too many entrepreneurs out there just waiting for the "big guys" to make that mistake - to start their own empire.

in the last 5000 years many people tried to overtake/control/rule the world. the only one who succeeded was "free market". you will never succeed to control the market by consolidating an artificial monopoly. too easy to destroy the plan. you can't force the genie back into the bottle.

but just in case i am wrong - count me in


:Graucho

big sponsors now cater to tgp's with free hosted galleries and free hosting, they aren't just going to shut them off if they are making money....

there will always be some sponsor to cater to tgp's

hey Boneprone, regulation from gov. should be left out altogether, in my view. That is VERY dangerous and can become a sort of censorship at some point. Raising quality and learning how to compete is perhaps, as you suggested, a better route. A 'free markets' challenge.

It hurts for all of us at present, and the hurting period may be a long one but eventually markets level, if we allow them to, by limiting regulation. Those who cannot compete, adapt or don't learn to take advantage of newly created opportunities will be the usual crybabies. If anything, challenging times will makes us smarter.

I agree with the idea of increasing incentives to publish softer galleries, and I disagree with the idea of doing anything that will hurt TGPs or interfere with their own dynamics. TGPs and paysites are as much partnerships as manufacturers are with their distributors, and as in brick and mortar life, there must be cooperation between them.

Just a suggestion but wouldn't it help that sponsors stopped providing free content all together? I mean, if you take any sponsor and look at my gallery queue 70% or more is all premade template stuff.

What do a lot new gallery makers do when they first start? Make 30 pic galleries of all hardcore sponsor content on some freehost and complain about no sales.

The sponsors that provide movie content that are clips as opposed to trailors are destroying the value of those clips. I get full 1 minute movies posted as galleries which would be great if i didnt care about selling movie site memberships.

The idea basically is that people intelligent enough to buy their own content will be smart enough to know what to give away and what to save for a members section.

Granted I was new once too, but the first thing i did was go out and buy my own content and my own payhosting. I'm not implying to get rid of freehosts, but maybe evaluate the person registering for one a little closer. I think this would help me, speaking as a small tgp owner.

again just my :2 cents:

RogerV - nice idea, but I am not too sure it will fly. I know of one sponsor that will not accept TGP traffic (although TGP2, and Free Paysite Password technique traffic is welcome - go figure), and they have a rep for only paying whale accounts. That had zero impact.

I do not doubt your connections with major players, but please, tell me how a big company will be able to police this. I'd think companies would be examining downizing during a recession, not looking to hire enough staff to surf TGPs and cancel accounts. Not too mention that even if the major companies were to unite, you'd really have to exert pressure on the smaller partnership programs in order for this to work. Would that fall under collusion? Big guys telling little guys how to run their business seems to be something I'd watch on the Sopranos.

Just for the record, I am not against losing hardcore. Much like Shemp, I do not ask for hardcore galleries from gallery builders. I also think softcore sells better. But I am sorry, I just do not have a lot of faith in anyone pulling this off. Even if you got 75% of the TGPs to agree to something, the other 25%(maybe guys using rougue sponsors, or who own their own paysites and don't play exit footsie with the big boys) will fuck up the "revolution".

Why is it no one has pointed the real truth here. This RodgerV guy isn't capable of making any money off TGP and instead of being smart enough to figgure out a way to make money off TGP he wants to blaim someone or something for his failure.

Guess what RodgerV, lots of people make a LOT of money from TGP, it's just you and a couple other IDIOTS that are incapable of making it work. Just face it, you're an idiot.

TGP made more money this last year than EVER, (a lot more) dispite those idiots incapable of making it work for them.

SD, I think ROgerV has stated that his program can convert TGP traffic great, but it sounds like he does not have a large number of affiliates who push him TGP traffic. I was wondering if he'd be so gung ho to reform TGP's if he had a shitload of newbie webmasters pumping a lot of TGP traffic into his exit chain.

Regardless, I would have to agree with him about the softcore/hardcore theory. But I remember TGP2, and there was not a lot of support for that movement(sadly). I would be surprised if you can get all the big sponsors to agree to anything. And if you did, would it even be legal to admit it, publicly?

TGP made more than ever this year because instead of sharing (like it should be), now you are SELLING your junk traffic to the gallery makers. And now you can take all your hardly earned cash and throw a big tgp circle-jerk party in vegas. But you know I sure as hell won't be there because I'll be at the party with las chicas. :thumbsup

And i may be an IDIOT, but you know what??? At least I have REAL friends, not a bunch of cocksmokes hanging off my nuts cause I talk myself up to be something i'm not.

All the money is the world isn't going to buy you respect. Get a life... http://bbs.underwearlounge.com/image...s/new_tool.gif

I was wondering the same thing when I asked him to throw some real numbers and not any fuzzy math about his traffic. Why would anyone in their right mind want to sell their traffic unless it was shit?


I mean a lot of these big TGP's sell gallery spots for 30 bucks a pop. Why would u sell a spot for 30 dollars a listing when u can make many more times that with a per signup sponsor? TGP's are good for up and comming paysites to get your name out here and there but face it. How much traffic would there really be to paysites without freesites?

Hmm. Roger V, is PornKings yours? I just signed up for PornKings about a week ago and was getting ready to start promoting them on Thumbzilla. I did not realize that you apparently consider TGPs to be the enemy. My bad.

Translation: Amway works! Look at all the Amway starter kits I sold this year!

I love the irony of some big-head TGP guy (not saying all are, but Sleazy sure is), calling a guy like Roger who is straight up, intelligent AND runs a big-ass webmaster program, an idiot because he thinks that TGP traffic sucks.

Get a clue Sleazy. Perhaps if you eat the right food, you will acquire one - that seems to have been your strategy so far.

Roger - I support this idea, I think that anything you can do to stem the tide will help even if it isn't 100% effective. I don't think it needs to be 100% effective to work.. It's not like these surfers have a strategic overview of the entire internet.. If every TGP they look at there's no hardcore, most will just assume that there's no hardcore on the net and pony up. There doesn't have to be total coverage.

Cheers,
Backov

How would a hardcore TGP (specializing in cumshots or something) operate? And how can you advertise a hardcore sponsor without hardcore galleries? I used to advertise cumshot sites like Amateur Facials...and using softcore pics will get you 0 sign-ups. Using their free content that shows facials will convert out the ass.

ok I didnt read everything but I get the idea and it wont work that way.

lets see it the way it is:
the major tgp owners have a shitload of traffic on their hands, they got repeat- and repeat- and REPEAT visitors, they trade traffic with other tgps like theirs and they HAVE to follow rules, rules and a few other rules.

oh and of course they dont want to lose their sextracker rank :1orglaugh

now if sponsors stopped supporting those "hardcore tgps" the only effect would be dozens of new paysites per day which accept those hardcore tgps.

my solution:
shut all freehosts down on 1/1/2003
remove any free content for programs which dont necessarily need it (for example reality sites with a fixed topic: bangbus, ...)

as stupid as it sounds... kill the newbies and 2003 would be a better year.

kinda offtopics already, sorry

TGP's are a wonderful way to herd traffic. Very few types of businesses have that many customers in one place for samples of a product! If tgp's weren't around people would use Kazaa which is much worse and you would have a harder time controlling it!

I think Boneprone has a great idea in using higher payouts as an incentive to change.

Why on earth would a sponsor care if Person A can't convert TGP traffic? People B,C,D, and E can and they're sending a shitload of sales from TGP traffic.

btw, anyone who runs a sponsor program and thinks this is a great idea...you're free to do it. :)

If it's such a great idea, why do you *still* accept TGP traffic? No one says you have to.

You can spend your days tracking referring URL's and canning people who send you signups because you don't like their traffic source. :thumbsup

you guys do realize visa and mc will have all your asses on a silver platter if they so choose, right?

QUIET DOWN!

I always sell MONSTER FACIAL GANGBANGS by showing chicks in bikinis drinking trendy bottled water.

Best post on this thread.

100!

Please do not be alarmed. I am merely an overtired poster wandering about the boards aimlessly. I mean you no harm. Just give me food and water and I will be on my way. Thank you for your time.

Actually I have been thinking about getting rid of my TGP...I mean i get like 7k a day to it but hardly any sign ups. It takes a crafty guy to manage a free porn site and get sign ups and I am not hat guy I have figured out!

Aa boneprone and Mark said on first page, quality is the solution.
If you make a pay site with some overused pics, some crap videos and ugly chicks chating, who looks more bored than trying to get you horny, then for sure tgp sites are your enemy, because some of the tgp got better content than tons of paysites. The surfer will pay por quality porn not available at free sites. Why you don't make a revolution of paysite owners about buying great exclusive content, great exclusive videos, hire exclusive models to shoot them (nobody could watch that model unles signing at your site) hire good looking chicks for the videochat and pay them to make ppl horny, some of that chat girls seems realy bored insted of excited. Actualice content everyweek, actualice tour and sign pages designs, etc.
Do you really want to get money forever from a crap site, not actualizing it for ages? I bet big paysites make millions profit, why not to spend a bit more to make them allways fresh insted of buying yourself expensive cars and then bashing the free porn?
Free sites won't ever have live content, exclusive content, etc so your effort must be there, to make quality sites much better than the free sites around. Not any bussines could last forever if you inly want to get profit and don't expend anything to adapt it to new tendencies of the market.

I don't think that free pics that can be also found easily at kazaa, irc, etc really could hurt a big quality paysite, of course you can't try to make profit just selling only some pics that are avalaible for free and even easily than surfing in the mess of crap designed paysites, where is even hard to navigate, or are slow because are hosted on cheap bandwith servers.

Don't be fool guys, the big money on this biz is not made by ustgp/avs/toplists/free sites owners, it's made by paysite owners so they must improve their sites insted of banning ours. If they would spend only a small part of what they earn thanks to us, all the biz would be much more profitable for all us.

Nice to see the king of Lizards Zilla here!
It really does make my day when he wanders in here and makes a post like that!!

hehehehe.

Hey zilla, you should post more here!
We love ya baby!!

Missed ya in Florida!
Vegas 2003 the lizard man and Da Bone 4-Life January Internext.

I own both TGP's and an affiliate program. I think the problem is lack of knowledge on the part of a typical gallery maker. How many times has a TGP owner seen a sponsor being promoted with the WRONG content. This isn't gonna sell if the galleries are not properly designed. I can see why hosted galleries are becoming popular for this reason.

Secondly I think that the responsibility (if they choose to do so) would be for the sponsorship programs to not accept affiliates that do not promote their "exclusive" content. Nothing forces a sponsor to take a signup that came from a gallery showing pink or no pink. They do so because it makes them money.

The responsibility lies in the sponsor on what they want to accept and not accept. Personally my sites convert well off TGP traffic, maybe it is because I promote them off TGP traffic so that is what I have to go by or maybe I just got lucky.

I agree with the "teasing" of surfers because my galleries have made more money since I have decided to go that route with them, but I think part of the issue is the content the sponsorship programs give out to promote, I am guilty of giving out content that shows to much as well. I think we need to look more at the sponsorship programs and get those working together instead of forcing our main traffic source (at least mine anyway) to change their ways of doing business.

Just my :2 cents:

AJ

Hey Icy, some insights from an insider to paysites...

To say that we do not invest our money or do not make any effort to stay competitive by trying to constantly come out with higher quality products or models that are exclusive to us, is very unfair.

We are a big team here who busts our butts day in day out to achieve the best we can and offer honest products for the many webmaster who have decided to work with us.

There are the editors, photographers, designers, marketing guys and even lawyers in our team who spend countless hours trying to do the greatest possible job, and I am not even mentioning our proof-readers who will not let updates go live before making sure English is well written in all our copy. I don't want to live out our team of image processors / color correctors who we have trained hard for an extensive period fo time so that none of our pictures have any cast whatsoever. Oh, did I mention the staff people who takes care of all models' make- ups so that they look the best in their sessions or the video editors who work 12 hours a day straight to come up with the best possibly quality videos? How about flying in models from any part of the world, all expenses paid, to have exclusive content shot so that our audience remains loyal? We not only show respect to the many customers who have been following us for years (yes) but also for anyone who approaches us with a sincere interest to promote us, like many here do.

I can personally testify that with all the limitations we may have, we go out of our way to make partners happy and carefully listen to their input, just because we understand that we are all in this together. It is hard and difficult for everyone. That paysite owners are raking it by the millions is just a myth.

roberto / score-cash

Roberto, of course not everybody works that way, but if you got great sites, updated, etc congratz, i bet you will be getting lots of signups and not complaning about too many free porn pics.
Why new programs/sites gets lots of signups? easy answer, they are new and fresh, so if you keep your paysites allways fresh, you will keep making money for a long time.
We tgp/freesites/avs webmasters are just promoting products, if what we promote is crap, the sales will be crap, and we can't work on the product, thats your work, we work on the sales, if you complain about how we sell, we could complain about your work too.
Ppl will look for free porn anyways in the net, better to show it in our webs where there are also links to sponsors, that from kazaa and so.
The more complains from paysite owners, come from the fact that tgptraffic don't keep the membership after the trial, why? the tgp did his work sending you the surfer to sign for the trial, if he doesn't stay, it's your fault for not offering better content, better design, more variety, etc that the one showed at the tgp.
So before complaining about the others work, look at yours, mybe the chain broke there.

Hey, Boneprone, thanks for the kind words, bro :-) Yeah, I drop in here once in a while and throw out some of my idiotic thoughts if a thread really grabs me.

Regarding this thread...well, obviously I am going to disagree with it because I own a TGP and from my experience I see paysites making a ton of money from Thumbzilla traffic, and I see plenty of webmasters over the years making money from Thumbzilla traffic. And, I can tell you straight out that I have never had a complaint from any of my sponsors. Never. As a matter of fact, sponsors are usually happy if I decide to promote their programs on Thumbzilla. So, naturally, when I saw RogerV's post, I was taken aback.

I honestly did sign up for Porn Kings just over a week ago and was planning to start promoting their new program, I think it is called freefreeprogram.com, on Thumbzilla sometime this week. It looked to me like it could do quite well on Thumbzilla, and so I was going to really push it and see how it did. And, I can honestly say that there are many webmasters, newbies and experienced, who, when they see Thumbzilla pushing a program, try it out for themselves, too. This is something of which my sponsors are quite aware...they know that if a big TGP pushes their program, it is going to cause a lot of other webmasters to try pushing that program on their sites, too.

Thumbzilla and other TGPs provide a service to webmasters and to surfers. We post about 200 galleries per day that were submitted to us by webmasters. On each of those galleries, those webmasters are promoting a sponsor or his or her own paysite. I think that most of the sponsors out there are quite aware that a large percentage of the signups that they get to their paysites came either directly or indirectly from TGP traffic.

Nevertheless, it is clear that there are some sponsors out there that actually do consider TGPs to be the enemy! I guess that RogerV is one of them. So, I am really glad I saw this thread before I started pushing his program on Thumbzilla. If there is one thing that is very important to me in both personal and business relationships, it is loyalty. I have sponsors on Thumbzilla that have been there since the day I started the site! I am very loyal to them and they are very loyal to me. Some of them are very big and well-known. They appreciate the value of a Thumbzilla! They are quite aware that not only has Thumbzilla made them quite a lot of money, but also many webmasters, newbies and experienced alike, have signed up for their programs simply because they have seen Thumbzilla using those programs for so long and they figure, well, if it works for Thumbzilla, maybe it will work for me, too. These sponsors have made Thumbzilla a lot of money, but Thumbzilla has made them a lot of money, too! So...I am loyal to them, and they are loyal to me.

From what I have read in this thread, I have come to realize that it would be stupid of me to promote RogerV's program on Thumbzilla because 1) he does not know the value of a TGP, 2) he resents my site, and 3) he could never have a sense of loyalty to me and therefore would never appreciate the money that Thumbzilla would make for him.

That is a shame! But, all is not lost: as I indicated before, there are many big sponsors out there who, unlike RogerV, have the vision to see the value of TGPs.

Obviously, I am biased, but in my opinion many of the TGPs are the backbone of the adult internet! They keep the traffic flowing and glowing ;-) Certainly there are TGPs out there that deal in pretty low quality traffic, but there are many others that have solid, honest, productive traffic...they are the ones that I am talking about.

Anyway, I have mouthed off enough, and I am sure there are many of you who will disagree with what I said, but that doesn't mean you are right ;-) Kidding, okay??

Boneprone, I am not sure yet, but I may be in Vegas in January. Have a good one, bro, and maybe we'll hook up then!

Icy, I don't get it. I am not trying to initiate a confrontation. Perhaps I am just misunderstanding your point.

If I read your post correctly you tend to think paysites VS TGPs. And it that scheme, you assume paysites are doing a poor, sloppy job, you assume paysites blame TGPs too much for their own low retention rates and in addition, you assume paysites are making shitloads of money out of the effort of distributors.

The message I tried to convey here is that there are some myths in those statements and I used our example to make my point.

We have enjoyed good working relationships with distributors because we value their contribution as chanels of ditribution goes, and we like to believe they respect the effort we instill in all what we do. We both gain from this and it goes both ways.

Briefly, we are TGP friendly and have understood long ago our own contribution to the game, by everyday raising the bar when it comes to quality. Our partners may make money through rebills only if WE can retain those customers they got for us. We've been responsible for own stuff since we started.

I only tried to bring you closer to what goes on at the paysite level...not sure about your answer. All is well though.

roberto / score-cash

Let's get this thread moving again. It started out strong last night, but everyone went to bed.

Please tell me when sleazydream posted other people's galleries (other than paid placements) - I NEVER EVER posted free galleries on sleazydream - so I guess you are an idiot.

bump

Baby steps guys...Rome wasn't built in a day.

How about a higher payout for those that do not use hardcore, or those that censor it...I think black boxes with the words, "Member's Only" would help conversions alot.

thumbzilla, where are you!?

:1orglaugh

So you still wanna do this? I have an idea about something that might help. Or it may not. If you wanna hear it, hit me up on ICQ (1566665)

The good old days. well i guess 2257 is taking care of this. I knew if we didn't the gov would.

:thumbsup

Karups 2257 Statement:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=477889

I love companies who protect models instead of worrying only about the bottom line. Perfect example of LONG TERM THINKING.

Who bumped this old thread?