I totally agree my new program will have the same 2257 setup.

Karups are good people and good friends of mine :thumbsup

the same person who started it

another blast from the past

nice read, I must have missed the previous bump on this thread in 03 :upsidedow

I wasn't against tgp's etc. I just saw this coming.

Everyone is getting discouraged about 2257

Look at the bright side. A lot of programs will have non-sexual explicit promo materials
For banners, galleries, HPA?s and FPA?s etc.

This can only benefit the industry in the long haul. Like I have been saying for years and gave up because I realized I was wasting my breath in the past.

The benefit of this would be, Surfers will be more likely to try out a low trial so there will be better conversions and since they can?t see hardcore they will most likely convert to a full membership and retain longer.
Aside from kids being able to see it free...

Wow.. this thread is scarry..

Its almost 3 years old and all that I said on the 2nd page is coming true.

I saw the writing on the wall plus I have lots of friends in high places :winkwink: Lets just say alot of people love porn and most of them have children.


And you must also see the future as well :winkwink:

BINGO.. THERE IT IS.

3 years later and it has begun.

Too bad the US is not going to see as much free porn as before..

Of course not from most sites that is..

But some, with thier connections have the ability to get the proper documentation to continue to use hardcore thumbs as secondary producers on thier sites.. Some but not all..

ITs good to have family.

this thread is getting big

It's nowhere near so simple...

The fingers of two hands are probably about enough to count the really excellent membership sites. You just might be able to find 100 that are good.

The exact numbers are a matter of perception, but I doubt many would argue that most of the product we attempt to foist off on people is second-rate and over-priced. Because we could get away with that back in '96, we are still trying to get away with it now and the only reason standards have improved at all is because TGP's and links lists started pointing at more and better content than most paysites provided. But do you seriously imagine that if this hadn't happened we could still be selling the same crap we were back then?

So the first level of unreality in this business is that we provide junk and then wonder why trials don't convert or why members only rebill for a month or two. In '96 there was a fraction of the competition there is now and the vast majority of surfers had never bought a membership. Today, thousands of sites are fighting over a relatively small number of newbies and most of our potential customers have been disappointed at least once. It's a joke to imagine we can solve our problems by tweaking the traffic but leaving the product as is. If you want a clear distinction between free content and member content, the answer is to improve the latter, not waste your time on some doomed attempt to stifle the former.

The second level of unreality is the apparent belief that everyone looking at free porn is a potential customer. Strictly according to the meaning of the word "potential" yes, but in terms of presenting a realistic opportunity to extract money from them on a regular basis, no. At the very least, not by simply denying them free porn. Indeed, I am convinced that if free porn were softcore only, most of the curious would drift back to mainstream sites far more quickly and therefore many fewer of those who did not initially intend to spend money would be around long enough to be tempted to do so.

And finally, you cannot ignore the market forces by which someone perceives a demand and satisfies it, because the internet is global. As is happening with 2257, if you limit the ability of one part of the market to satisfy a demand, another part will take up the slack. Thus it is with free porn: it is an obvious demand that someone will always be happy to accomodate. Rather than play King Canute and tell the tide to stay back, you would be better off figuring out how to monetize the traffic more effectively.

General question.
Do you think tgp owners with their servers outside of the states would follow along with the tamer galleries, or take advantage of u.s. based tgp's complying?

Very, I remember reading this thread a long time ago when I first got into Adult.

It is simple just difficult to regulate worldwide. which is the reason it got out of control and thats why they are regulating things now, of course there will always be people picking up the slack thats business and people break the law all the time.

I really think the rest of the world will soon take action. the US was just the first.

I know for a fact exclusive content won't retain or convert better from my own resources from the past 9 years and we can argue back and fourth its just my opionion and experience . But I do understand it helps generate traffic because of a fresh face factor for TGP's which last about a second till the next fresh face is released. And I agree that they forced programs to produce exclusive content but who cares when surfers can get it free. thats really my point.

I'm for new exclusive content. I just think we need to stop giving away the cow we need to just give them a nipple or two..

Very true. I've talked to friends who want me to give them free memberships, or content, and when I ask them about which sites they are member's of, etc. They all say, "none. you can get all you need for free. why pay?".

There you have it folks.

While I think some of the posts in this thread have the best intentions of trying to close the pandora's box, I doubt it would happen. Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking your efforts. If you could get the "big players" to do it, and a number of sponsors, then you would have a good start, and would start bending other's to comply to get the main traffic streams.

Since this industry IS so divided, you'd probably get a "clean" vs "rouge" splitting of the two. For anyone who wants to remain in the game.

It's one of those lesson's I learned long ago as a salesman. You would have some people who just can't sell without a promotion, or free, or some kinda offer. They can't sell on the merits of the content. Their favorite stars. That their site's better. They have to give their traffic the nude, the penetration, and so on. They just can't function, nor understand how to, much less want to, conform to the true selling tactics.

You have what they want. They are visiting your site. And YOU are the only one who can give it to them in the quality, and quanity they are looking for.

:disgust

the problem isn't the amount of hardcore shown - it's the lack of salesmanship.

old school people want a marketplace back with no compitation that has no clue how to sell - and that isn't going to happen. I make incredible money showing MASSIVE amounts of free porn - and i know lots now these days that do as well. I've sceen tons of old school guys try tgp and not make any money and they just blaim it on too much free porn - it's total bullshit. it's cause there's people that know how to sell out there now - even with ULTRA TIGHT relgulation - we're STILL HERE - we'll STILL kick the ass off all you old school guys if the business tightens up cause we have better sales pitches. that's what it boils down to. that's why you can't compete anymore.

dinosaurs die.

I have a suspicion you replied to what you assumed I wrote, rather than actually reading it, because I didn't mention exclusive content anywhere. In fact if I had, I would have said that I don't believe - per se - exclusive content sells any better than non-exclusive. Nor did I equate more with better anywhere: I would far rather post a gallery with a half dozen imaginatively photographed pics than 30 of same-old, same-old poses and run-of-the-mill models. But where are they?

Apart from the sites which simply don't deliver on specific promises, we are selling a fantasy and one question is whether more than a handful can deliver on that, even with the best of intentions. In other words, do we ever think about what we need to provide if we seriously expect someone to come back month after month? Surely not just uploading more sets of ordinary models shot by merely competent photographers?

Lots of things could do the trick, many of them to be found in the well-run, model-operated sites. But what is a natural part of these sites doesn't scale up well and loses its magic in the process. Solidly themed sites can work too, but only until they begin repeating themselves or there are so many second-rate copies that the whole sector becomes discredited. Great photographers. Super models. Also answers, but for how many?

Maybe large-scale, "corporate" porn can only deliver something that will always fall short of surfers' expectations and therefore is stuck with overly aggressive marketing, cross-selling and all the rest which in other circumstances they probably should drop like a hot brick. If true, that's bad news for them, because surfers will continue to build up resistance and become better and better at identifying something they have tried and know they don't want. Meanwhile, those who use free content to sell will follow the market and put more of their efforts into promoting the specialist sites which aren't driving their surfers away.

I suspect that over the next few years a certain type of sponsor is going to come under a lot more pressure than will the providers of free porn.

tgps suck

that about sums it up.

Alienq says, Wired guy is correct.

he also says, It wont last.
Good idea for a kicker but long term it wont hold is what Alienq thinks.

He says we are dealing with the world and the worlds supply of adult entertainment is not just on American laws.

ALienq also says that Sleazy is wrong.

Free porn hurts the bottom line.
alienq says, Face it sleazy...
No middle men = higher profits.
But since middle men are around there is no combating the bar they are all willing to drop with history as the track record as proof.

ALienq also says that Sleazy is wrong.

Free porn hurts the bottom line.
alienq says, Face it sleazy...
No middle men = higher profits.
But since middle men are around there is no combating the bar they are all willing to drop with history as the track record for proof.

Didnt read the whole thread, but if all the sponsors got together and agreed to take the short term hit until the tgp traffic guys went to no hardcore thumbs and gals it would be HUGE and I mean HUGE for the industry. Could you imagin the gallery click throughs and and the production on the tgps. I would be unreal.

Nearly impossibe task however.

Great in theory...but I don't think it's feasible. It will be almost impossible to get the cooperation of so many webmasters.

cept i have paysites and no middle man. :1orglaugh

Just for fun....
 

OK, so tomorrow someone should Chameleon submit to 1000 or so TGP's a brand spanking new "censored" gallery and report back on what happens to their gallery acceptance rate. Literally put the word "censored" over anything "pink" insertions, etc.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm curious enough to try it from a throw away URL/account.

Adwords, overture etc. No content whatsoever.

Like it used to be in 97 and 98 :thumbsup till everyone starting giving everything away

RogerV - you are a man with ideas ahead of our time. Good call back then!

Oy--

150 tgp owners...

I wonder what he's up to now doesn't look like he's with PK anymore :upsidedow

Well said, i don't think that to ban TGPs would be a good bussines for anybody as probably tgps are the biggest traffic providers (i know, we are talking about amount not quality, but usually the bigger traffic the more $$ unless you don't know what are you doing).

About making all TGPs softcore, well in an ideal world that would be great, i wouldn't mind to make that with mines... if everybody does it that of course i doubt. This is competition, as long as one tgp, fresite or whatever keeps having hardcore, he will get all the traffic lost by the sites not showing hardcore.

This reminds me the TGP2 revolution, great ideas that never worked because some kept having the tons of pics galleries. (apart from all the problems with the mess of rules at each tgp2 site). We need autoregulation, we have always needed it, but we never managed to autoregulate ourselves.

As Shemp said, wake me up when the revolution starts and i'll follow it if everybody does, anyway i'm not a big guy that would make a big difference.

I'm bumping this thread to make a point.

5 and a half years ago, it was TGP's that were "killing the industry"
Why?
Because they showed "pink" and "hardcore"....and this was just pictures mostly!!

Yet they were the reason "the business is dying and nobody is making any money"

Today, everyone loves TGP's and blames the tubes. They give too much away, why would someone pay if they can get all that for free....blah blah

It's like deja vu all over again.....and 5 years from now, the guys who have big tubes today will be complaining about the new guys with whatever new type of site comes out that makes the tubes irrelevant.

Excellent point, and I knew why the thread was here as I started reading the OP.
I think however, tubes is the end all of porn. When TGPs were hot were TGP sites in the top 3 pages of google for "porn" and "free porn"?

Bump this again in 7 years and prove me wrong.. but tubes are exactly what the consumer wants and I'm sure will always want.

Many people may have given up adult over TGP saturation, but I think tubes will kill business much more

:2 cents:

I didn't understand what I was reading on the first page till I saw the date... LOL.

5 years from now, hookers with AFF ads tattooed on their forehead will start fucking guys for free and tube sites will be out of business. :1orglaugh

The thing you have to remember is that when TGP's were started, pictures were 95% of all internet porn.
Bandwidth was prohibitively expensive and home internet connections weren't fast enough to really support video. So video was primarily consumed in the DVD and VHS market.

So what TGP's were giving away at the time, in relation to what paysites were charging for at the time....is pretty much the same as what tubes are giving away today, in relation to what paysites are charging for today.

Giving away 10 minutes of a movie today is the same as giving away 20 pictures from a gallery back then. :2 cents:

This was an interesting argument in 2005. Please replace "tgp" with "tubes" to make this thread relavent to 2009.

carry on...

oh, it's 2002.