tony:
It is a pity there is much misinformation and deviant slants spread about healthcare - it serves no useful purpose other than to keep lining the pockets of those with vested interests.

Couple of quick examples of other countries - The UK has UHC and it is accepted as a right. That said, it's not perfect - nothing is, but means any person can have access to treatment regardless of medical condition or cost.

Costa Rica also has UHC and ranks on par with the US annually (either one above or one below). The vast difference with both the UK and the US is that the cost of UHC for a family of four averages $250/year and is all-inclusive (medical treatment, dental care etc). The quality of care is no different to either the US or the UK. The other ironical aspect is, rates of taxation in CR are very low - if they are applicable in the first instance. If you make allowances for local salaries/costs - it still makes you wonder how they can sustain a UHC system for so little money.

On healthcare experiences here - only been in hospital once for a couple of days, but got excellent care and could not complain. A US expat friend here had to go into hospital re heart problem for a few weeks. He never had insurance here, but there was no hesitiation treating him - the priority was his treatment, not money. He was stunned that he was provided with a level of healthcare he would have expected back home. When he was released from hospital, he was only too pleased to pay $250/year for his family of four and wanted to do this as a way of saying thank you. Another elderly expat lady from the US had a heart attack a month ago - she is fine now, but was also amazed at the constant attention she got from both doctors and nursing staff.

Nothing is ever perfect anywhere and things can go wrong, but you can't help but wonder there is something seriously wrong when people get to the level of bankruptcy over healthcare. I've settled hospital bills for a good friend in the US - she exhausted her health insurance and they elected to not pay more (catch 22) - no way does any individual need to go without treatment because the system failed them. There is no valid reason for not providing healthcare to anyone who needs it - especially within any "civilized" country where normally, full treatment facilities exist.

Best wishes to your Dad and hope he continues to get the treatment he deserves :thumbsup

It is a fucked up situation air3k - no doubt man.

Megafoo - in most cases the dont fund the research - they just buy the US patent rights after the fact - has nothing to do with funding research or providing front money.
Most of the best breakthrus in medicine have been outside the US - there are just some very smart corporations that do nothing but travel the world looking for new products to buy the rights for US patents - as a matter of fact (and do please fact check me if you like) - very few medical discoveries or new products come from the US - it costs too much and the US government has their own research facility (NIH) to fund - so they are stingy with private companies

Megafoo said:
bullshit - look up Siemens Medical Systems - i worked for them for 5 years. and i sold more than 20 x-rays in that time, one of them was the first digital orthodontic x-ray that was ever sold. it's a german company btw - like the guy who invented x-ray

you people need to stop believing that the world evolves around you - just because Disneyland is a great entertainment park

:2 cents:

fuck the u.s.

I actually just saw Sicko about a week ago myself. I would just like to add that Nixon was a little bitch.

yup nixon WAS a crook.

Dude! it was an example, metaphor, whatever you want to call it. stop being so anal.

U.S. is the biggest buy of medical equipment WORLDWIDE but yet we make up just a fraction of the world population.

The U.S. is the largest single country consumer of medical and dental equipment and supplies, with a market valued at nearly $80 billion in 2005 (including diagnostic products) and U.S. medical technology companies lead the world in medical device production.

also

In 2004 the U.S. comprised roughly 45% of the pharmaceutical market worldwide, while Europe comprises about 25% (AMR Research).

I never once said i support the way the United States is handling their health care but Universal Coverage does not promote competition among hospital/medical establishment the way an unregulated (for profit) health care system does. And we all know we need competition within any business catagory in order to get better products/services.

When roughly 1/20th of the worlds population is responsible for approx 50% of the revenue made by the world medical establishment you can not sit there and say we are not responsible for most of the medical breakthrus you people living with universal coverage take for granted.

As recent events show, the problem with a purely profit driven health system is that the companies have an incentive to cancel the policies of the sickest customers. It is even worse when it is company policy and they are paying bonuses for it.

A metaphor eh?? OK... metaphorically speaking, - has it ever occured to you why the US also consumes 25% of world oil resources when it only has 5% of world population???

Have you ever asked yourself why there is a disproportionate number of pharma corps for only 5% of world population???

You got to work that one out yourself, but can give you a clue - you are an over-paying consumer in the world's best marketplace for "legal" drug cocktails and all based on a price which cannot be challenged by law. The legal drugs cartels are even better than the illegal one's *lol*

Back to the thread topic - the wind and hot air has nothing to do with the subject of the thread - "acutal healthcare".

pretty much. the employees (doctors) of the biggest health companies are rewarded for denying medical treatment. there's a winning occupation for yah. no need to use your medical skills to help people, just pick up the deny stamp and you'll get bonuses.

lol.

Fuck You!

Bwahahahahahahahaaaaaaa

I will pitch in for that. Micheal Moore is a cheap propagandist. It is amazing to see how easily people are suckered in by his lies. If you think life is so much better in Cuba then the US then please move there and see how it goes. Idiots.

Moore might go overboard. I mean, nobody in their right mind would choose to live in Cuba or anywhere like that over the US. But the point about healthcare is valid and existed long before Moore starting making docu-drama-mentaries about it.

Propagadist is the last line of defence for the deniers, the best of people is them who can admit there is something wrong with themselves or their country and then suggest better ways for improving it.

http://www3.thestar.com/static/PDF/20071110_taxes.pdf

Here's a good graphic to give people an idea of taxes as a percentage of economic output(gdp). As you can see taxes are not that much more of a burden in Canada compared to the U.S.A. These figures do not include the various tax cuts that have been implemented or proposed over the past few years such as the reduction of GST(VAT) from 7% to 5% and the reductions in both personal and corporate tax rates.

As most people on here are self-employed or run their own corp's you would pay less tax in Canada then if you ran the business in the U.S. and within a few years Canada will have the lowest corporate taxes in the OECD.

As you can see contrary to what you might have heard Canadians aren't the commie tax and spenders most people assume we are.

The greatest number of mri machines per captia are in Japan.

I just finished up watching sicko yesterday... and am left feeling much the same...

Europe and Canada are both looking pretty damn good about right now.

taxes in those countries are not that much higher. the prob is the u.s. runs the healthcare for profit. other countries do not. the lobbyists in washington are paid well to make sure that doesnt change.

100 peeps without health insurance...

welcome back.

remember kids even those with health insurance get fucked by the HMOs so they dont have to pay.

Fuck Micheal Moore

America pretty much blows..

Why should I give money to idiots who then give it to the lowest common denominators of our society?

I just saw Sicko and I kinda fucked me up. My parents are killing themselves to pay for their current health care along with trying preparing for their future health care needs. They will probably pass away at an early age from working so hard all their lives and stressing so much. If we lived elsewhere, they could be using those funds toward seeing the world and doing all the shit they want to do before they die, not to mention living longer healthier lives.

One thing I never understood about Sicko... they promote it as "Hilarious.... The Funniest Movie Of All Time!"

There really wasn't anything funny... and i'm not being cynical.... it wasn't funny

People where dying... a girl broke down cuz the insurance company wouldn't pay out a claim to somone who deserved it.

people could buy medicine for a fraction of the price in the US... it was scary

Alot of the statistics in SICKO are distorted.

Few who have had socialized medicine in those countries (and others) would prefer it to the quality care you can get in the US.

Plus, we already have socialized medicine in the US. If you are an illegal alien or a welfare mother, you are entitled to free health care courtesy of the US taxpayers. It's just that average working folk have a hard time affording health care, and that is very unfair.

The US health care system is broken --so fix it. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

Your parents are killing themselves paying for the healthcare of illegal aliens and welfare queens --with no reciprocal benefit. It's theft by taxes. That's their real problem.

You can't seem to admit there is a problem, I would never trade the doctors we have in here for the ones in America, you are a full on nationalist flagface.

If you have a car crash and your insurance refuses to pay the bills, you can't afford it and you die, remind me to laugh.

Can you read and comprehend the King's English? As I said, the system is broken.

I am no fan of insurance companies. First, you have whatever tragedy you have, then you have to fight your insurance company. That is a basic betrayal. So, tighten up the laws on insurance companies. And, make whatever other changes are necessary. Drop the illegal aliens, welfare queens, and the other deadbeats. If individuals don't value their own healthcare, why should the taxpayers pick up the tab at the expense of their own families?

Government controlled health care is jumping from the frying pan into the fire. No thanks.

Glad you are happy with the UK system, I am happy here.

I want things fixed, not made worse.

Yes I can read thanks, you only admitted it was broken to a certain extent, SiCKO isn't distorted. What you said is never going to happen and is unrealistic so you have to change the whole system.

We are 38th in life expectancy we have to wake and stop jerking off thinking we are the greatest.My dad had a major heart attack in the uk and he got outstanding care and it cost him nothing. Im watching sicko now and knowing how they are treating my father.They had to give him a 30yr old drug that truly fucked him up because thats what the health insurance says you have to use before you can use newer better chemo drugs. Its so fucked up.

aliens, welfare queens have nothing to do with health insurance companies fucking over the american public for profits.

All you do is post anti-American crap! What the fuck is up with you?

Uh, yes they do. They have everything to do with it. Fraud is a big reason why taxes and insurance premiums are so high.

Illegal aliens only get $6 an hour pay. Really? Hahahahaha, think again. They actually get closer to $24. How? They get an extra $18 in social benefits. Do you think the employer pays it? Nada.

Guess who pays for it?

You do!

It's why your taxes are so high.

your mistaken stop believing the bullshit.

Yea, it you calculate abortions in that or inner city murders or otherwise twist the figures.

The fact is life expectancy in the US is pretty darn good.

:)

...and the actual quality of care in the US is among the best.

It's why no one should believe the propaganda of Michael Moore.

I actually have friends in different parts of the world , thats not true and Im dealing with it first hand with my dad and his fight with cancer.

The world is a big place.

We were talking about he US.

Anyway, I am glad your Dad is doing OK in the UK.