agreed.
:(

anyone want to buy my bicycle, my walkman and my new leather jacket?
i cant afford them now
:(

Anyone want an AVS site design for a good price?

Well hello off-shore billing.

Visa will never be able to keep their dirty hands clean.

$750 ... Fuck It, You have to pay the COST to be the BOSS.

I dont feel sorry for a muthafucka, no need to get all emotional..... It's ONLY business.

Does nobody see the reason for this type of action....VISA, as a corporation must protect itself against the chargebacks, refunds, and general mistrust that the consumer must harbor against the sleazy tactics of most "big corporation" adult sites.

It is ironic that some of the big guys were the ones fucking with credit card billing the hardest, and in some cases that's how they became the big guys, and their CC games are what pushed Visa to make these changes, but these changes will end up fucking the little guys hardest, at least at first.

I'll be interested to see how this plays out with some of the shady bigger companies over the next few years.

heh, yep. this is called self-regulation.

Well said...the smaller guys in general are running a more honest program..anyone can become big cheating and tricking the consumer...its unfortunate that the big players think they have "built" their empire...when anyone willing to lie can easily compete.

If you got a site and don't hve the $750, I might have a deal for you... Contact Me.

ICQ#117009101

Well,

What about WSB?

Jettis?

I have been doing tons of research, setting up my corp, and everything else to get my paysite off the ground.

Good news, I have $750 if I HAVE to pay it.

If I can go with someone where the $750 is not needed, it allows me to take that and reinvest it into Traffic, more content, and a lot of other things that can help me generate the revenue.

No worries

Macro

I would love to see VISA fuck a few big guys that play credit card games. BUT, these guys are fucking smart and continue to stay a few steps ahead of visa. Even a few will be on visas list not to process for, but they will simply set up shell companies, etc to get around visas rules.

There are people making millions a month playing these games, with that much on the line they work hard to beat visa and mc.

then I shall remain in the competition. Because business is business, and I don't lose any sleep over making a sale to some brainless surfer I'll never see. Fuck them. $ is what the bottom line is about, not how many good deeds I've done. When that changes, I'll go join a fucking cult and start worrying about it.

Someone would do that?:winkwink:

I am about to get on a plane, so I hate to get in on this, but....

Total Bullshit. These are Visa INTERNATIONAL Regs, passed by Visa - Worldwide - ALL Regions voted and passed. USA, Canada, Latin America, CEMEA, Asia/Pacific and EU - ALL of them. End of story.

Anybody that wants to "make a run for the border" better be talking about Taco Bell. You can run but you can't hide from Visa.

Cafeaulait: Don't sit out there and misinform webmasters to feather your own nest. We - CCBill, iBill and Paycom / EPOCH have taken these issues head on and although we know it costs us money, we demonstrate we are in for the long term.

So "switch" if you will, but from what I hear, you may not be welcome when you HAVE to return.

Chris
CEO EPOCH / Paycom

Any word on exactly how the Pay Sites located in Canada will be able to process with CCBill/iBill/Jettis and others? Will we have to set up a business in US to be able to use any of the processors based in US or will they have branches available here over the border?

If you go back and actually READ the whole thread .. my first post said quite clearly that this is good news for honest webmasters ( other than the fee's ) and an understandable move by Visa. Don't jump on my shit if you didnt even read the fucking thread.

Chris, will all the non-US companies processing through Epoch have to form a US company?

Here is an article I just found that seems to relate to this subject. It does not really say much about adult though.

http://www.workz.com/cgi-bin/gt/tpl_...t=1039&nav1=1&

i have read everything. it starts with a mix of conspiracy theories and cries of unfairness, instead of a discussion of why it is happening, why they are making these decisions and what are the facts of the case.

you were the one who chose to take it a step further and equate it to Visa telling you what is acceptable and what is not and basically censoring you. that is a more rediculous remark than most of the other comments.

other than that, if you would have read what i said, you would say that i agree with you for the most part. it will help. not hurt.

the low barrier to entry of this business has been its reason for success in the past and it is achilles heal today.

for more info about Visa Corp. and what it's got its hands into lately:

http://www.forbes.com/global/2002/0916/038.html

We will only process IN the USA for US corps. Other corps will be processed in other countries.

And a message to those that want to "run and hide": Remember a couple of things...

1. You are putting your entire business at risk if you try to circumvent the rules or be "cute" in how you follow the regs. Visa knows where every transaction is settled. Every bank, every descriptor. Those that tell you they don't are just plain wrong.

2. There are voices in Visa that do not want adult to be processed. Luckily, for all of us, Visa recognizes that THEIR cardholders want these services. So if some small aggregators run around the globe trying to hide and play with the rules, someone at Visa could speak up a bit louder and ask, "Is this business worth it?" We are 2% of their 2 Trillion business! They could shut this business down and never look back. Regulation is not always good, but in this case it proves that we are being taken seriously.

People: All we have to do is follow a few simple rules. And if you don't have $750 to play, get out of the game.

Chris
CEO EPOCH / Paycom

Hey,

I have contact Glo-Bill and they are not affected by this at all. The recent changes they just made means that we won't have to go through all this crap. I had more than one processor but screw that. I'm moving all my sites to Globill.

There website is www.glo-bill.com

They activated my sites within 1 hour.

They also have 24 hour support.

Last and what works great for me is they pay weekly now. No more waiting for my checks. I get direct deposit the same day as they payout.

CCbill, Ibill, Epoch, and Paycom can go blow themselves and there new regulations. If they would keep there chargebacks low they wouldn't have this problem.

Chuuch

Yeah, thats probably why I explained how large companies hide behind processors and use honest webmasters to cover thier high chargeback ratios - I also said clearly that this was a good and understandable move by Visa.

Really, ask Epoch why they dont process for beastiality sites. I guess you missed that post too.

OK, so I take it that the non-US companies don't have to have a presence in the USA, correct?

What do you mean "other corps will be processed in other countries"?

Well, I would own the corporation of course =)

:thumbsup

No. If you are a non-US company and have operations here, you are cool for US processing, assuming you pay taxes, etc.

Just like in the USA where you can be a Delaware corporation, doing business in California. That's fine, as long as your company is registered to do business in California.

Chris
CEO EPOCH / Paycom

Someone is not telling the truth...Here's Globill's announcement, that would indicate that this IS NOT an international issue, but instead a US Merchant banking issue. It appears that if you want to avoid the $750 fee, that it is as simple as moving away from EPOCH, IBILL, CCBILL ...

As part of this restructuring, Glo-Bill has also moved all of its processing to a stable and reputable offshore bank. Previously Glo-Bill processed through a combination of offshore and domestic banks. An important reason for this move is that Visa and Mastercard have new regulations for their US member banks that should be going into effect before the end of the year. These new regulations will make business much more expensive for those third-party billing companies and their clients who choose to remain under the jurisdiction of the US merchant banking system. It would also force billing companies to divulge certain client information to Visa/Mastercard (web site URLs, income, contact info, etc.) and to essentially blacklist any individual client who exceeds Visa/Mastercard chargeback limits for even one month. Glo-Bill found many measures in these new rules to be overly broad and an apparent attempt to gouge our industry for extra cash. Glo-Bill is convinced that it will emerge as one of the strongest and most stable billing companies due to its decision to move its processing fully offshore.

Holdy shit,

Does Chris from Epoch speak for CCbill, Ibill Epoch and Paycom.

If so screw him and all those assholes. I'm moving to Glo-bill.com

The longer I can make money without having to fork out this money the better.

Glo-Bill is a solid company , I won't be moving back to Epoch Chris. So stick it where the sun don't shine.

Look at his statements I have pasted below.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
So "switch" if you will, but from what I hear, you may not be welcome when you HAVE to return.

Chris
CEO EPOCH / Paycom


And if you don't have $750 to play, get out of the game.

Chris
CEO EPOCH / Paycom
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

So where is Glo-Bill based offshore?

Ya know, I read this and I'm not sure I agree.

Isn't Visa a publically traded company?

If I was a shareholder in a publically traded company that decided to lose 2% of its revenue (Using your numbers, that's $40,000,000,000 (40 BILLION!)) for no apparent reason other than "we don't want to process for them" - I'd say that's ONE HELL of a shareholder suit. I don't think they could do it.

Cheers,
Backov

Thats fucking rich. You need to be popped in the mouth.

Screw a shitload of people and swagger back in a couple years later like you are the fucking saviors.

Suck my cock. Please.

So it pretty much sounds like anyone who does not want to fork out the $750 or more will just be switching to globill.

I still have not heard anything about this directly from my processor, but if I don't hear something good by the end of the week I will definitely be switching. Possibly sooner.

Straight up bruther.

Why does visa need to protect itself against the chargebacks? It's the processors (and ultimately the merchants) that take it in the rear with a chargeback...visa still makes money on the deal....just not as much as they'd like to. A processor get's billed for the initial transaction, then when a chargeback occurs Visa gets the money back from the processor and charges an additional fee. Then to help ease the swelling the processors repeat the process to the merchant. If a processor has too high of a chargeback ratio...Visa smacks them with a much larger fee as well.

I'm kind of two sided on this issue....I am happy this will help weed out some of the bad boys while at the same time I feel there are more ulterior motives behind this. The thing that gets me about this....the big companies who like to fuck around with people *won't* be affected like this....it may not be *as* easy as before but it's not going to be hard to get around it.:2 cents:

What I wanna know is who can a non-US company use as a processor?

Glo-Bill?

what about the existing rebills, guys?

i'd say this is way too important to be overlooked.

Extortion from Visa, and threats from the *processors*. This just keeps getting better.

Well some of you are missing the REAL point..If visa cracks down on third parties..or better yet third paties give up the issue of managing their customer data base to Visa,this whole thing is really about charge backs ya know.What do ya think Sponsorship programs are gonna do to free site webmasters that seem to be the biggest cause of charge backs for them now that they have run a tighter ship with Visa...shit rolls downhill.

I was thinking the exact same thing....not even considering the suit but 40 billion is 40 billion no matter how you shake a stick at it. Why would any company want to give that up unless they could make more from dropping it.

Cutting up my visa cards now, doubt they will miss my measly $2500 a month in transcations but fuck that, I can use my american express.

I don't even mind the $750 fee , but the fact that it recurs yearly? Bullshit and extortion.

If anyone using EPOCH continues to use them after hearing what this guy has to say.. you deserve any ass-fucking that'll be coming your way.

Does anyone know how this will affect PayPal????
If so, please post. Thanks.

So I wonder who exactly these people will be at VISA, who get to view the lists of urls, sex site owners and their personal info.

I bet they can't wait. What a butt reaming this is. I can't wait to hear the horror stories when that info gets loose.

Don't forget...a good portion of North America - including shareholders - are very active members of the religious right...for a company like VISA to pull out of this business,,,I think there would just as many shareholders applauding the move away from adult sites.

Plus, (read my post above) all indications are that this is a US merchant banking issue, and will not effect companies that choose to deal with Globill or other alternative processors.

So is this 750 per processor or just once to visa? So if you use 3 processors on your site, do you pay 3 times?

This is just more of the same Bin Laden bullshit... ever since 911 all the offshore banking shit has got more restricted because of "terrorism" -- yeah right... Like Brad said, I bet this is more about money laundering and scams... VISA will just hand over all this "reporting" info to the Feds/IRS so they can bust heads. The $750 fee is only there to keep the paperwork for them to a minimum.

This won't affect smaller paysites -- AVS is a better deal these days anyway -- the conversion ratios and retention is better -- the AVS will get get more sophisticated affiliate program (some do already)...

I think IBill, CCBill and Epoch will lose a lot of biz to AVS. I bet these companies are frantically working right now on their own AVS systems or partnerships so they don't lose biz to AVS!

My prediction is that this Globill "escape plan" is a red herring -- IBill, CCBill and Epoch aren't stupid -- if there was an escape from this -- they would have moved offshore too... Sounds to me like Epoch was just cut out of the loop of information -- and the axe will fall hard on them later -- we definitely aren't getting the full story here...

The religious right is tiny. It is politically powerful, but not large or otherwise particularly influential. Politically, it represents a tiny part of the Republican party... an incredibly small minority that has some power because of its traditional (lost) strength and big mouth. Socially, the percentage of people who side with the religious right is almost as vocal, but even smaller. They may have control of the situation, but not through numbers, which means that control is tenuous.