We will only process IN the USA for US corps. Other corps will be processed in other countries.

And a message to those that want to "run and hide": Remember a couple of things...

1. You are putting your entire business at risk if you try to circumvent the rules or be "cute" in how you follow the regs. Visa knows where every transaction is settled. Every bank, every descriptor. Those that tell you they don't are just plain wrong.

2. There are voices in Visa that do not want adult to be processed. Luckily, for all of us, Visa recognizes that THEIR cardholders want these services. So if some small aggregators run around the globe trying to hide and play with the rules, someone at Visa could speak up a bit louder and ask, "Is this business worth it?" We are 2% of their 2 Trillion business! They could shut this business down and never look back. Regulation is not always good, but in this case it proves that we are being taken seriously.

People: All we have to do is follow a few simple rules. And if you don't have $750 to play, get out of the game.

Chris
CEO EPOCH / Paycom

Hey,

I have contact Glo-Bill and they are not affected by this at all. The recent changes they just made means that we won't have to go through all this crap. I had more than one processor but screw that. I'm moving all my sites to Globill.

There website is www.glo-bill.com

They activated my sites within 1 hour.

They also have 24 hour support.

Last and what works great for me is they pay weekly now. No more waiting for my checks. I get direct deposit the same day as they payout.

CCbill, Ibill, Epoch, and Paycom can go blow themselves and there new regulations. If they would keep there chargebacks low they wouldn't have this problem.

Chuuch

Yeah, thats probably why I explained how large companies hide behind processors and use honest webmasters to cover thier high chargeback ratios - I also said clearly that this was a good and understandable move by Visa.

Really, ask Epoch why they dont process for beastiality sites. I guess you missed that post too.

OK, so I take it that the non-US companies don't have to have a presence in the USA, correct?

What do you mean "other corps will be processed in other countries"?

Well, I would own the corporation of course =)

:thumbsup

No. If you are a non-US company and have operations here, you are cool for US processing, assuming you pay taxes, etc.

Just like in the USA where you can be a Delaware corporation, doing business in California. That's fine, as long as your company is registered to do business in California.

Chris
CEO EPOCH / Paycom

Someone is not telling the truth...Here's Globill's announcement, that would indicate that this IS NOT an international issue, but instead a US Merchant banking issue. It appears that if you want to avoid the $750 fee, that it is as simple as moving away from EPOCH, IBILL, CCBILL ...

As part of this restructuring, Glo-Bill has also moved all of its processing to a stable and reputable offshore bank. Previously Glo-Bill processed through a combination of offshore and domestic banks. An important reason for this move is that Visa and Mastercard have new regulations for their US member banks that should be going into effect before the end of the year. These new regulations will make business much more expensive for those third-party billing companies and their clients who choose to remain under the jurisdiction of the US merchant banking system. It would also force billing companies to divulge certain client information to Visa/Mastercard (web site URLs, income, contact info, etc.) and to essentially blacklist any individual client who exceeds Visa/Mastercard chargeback limits for even one month. Glo-Bill found many measures in these new rules to be overly broad and an apparent attempt to gouge our industry for extra cash. Glo-Bill is convinced that it will emerge as one of the strongest and most stable billing companies due to its decision to move its processing fully offshore.

Holdy shit,

Does Chris from Epoch speak for CCbill, Ibill Epoch and Paycom.

If so screw him and all those assholes. I'm moving to Glo-bill.com

The longer I can make money without having to fork out this money the better.

Glo-Bill is a solid company , I won't be moving back to Epoch Chris. So stick it where the sun don't shine.

Look at his statements I have pasted below.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
So "switch" if you will, but from what I hear, you may not be welcome when you HAVE to return.

Chris
CEO EPOCH / Paycom


And if you don't have $750 to play, get out of the game.

Chris
CEO EPOCH / Paycom
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

So where is Glo-Bill based offshore?

Ya know, I read this and I'm not sure I agree.

Isn't Visa a publically traded company?

If I was a shareholder in a publically traded company that decided to lose 2% of its revenue (Using your numbers, that's $40,000,000,000 (40 BILLION!)) for no apparent reason other than "we don't want to process for them" - I'd say that's ONE HELL of a shareholder suit. I don't think they could do it.

Cheers,
Backov

Thats fucking rich. You need to be popped in the mouth.

Screw a shitload of people and swagger back in a couple years later like you are the fucking saviors.

Suck my cock. Please.

So it pretty much sounds like anyone who does not want to fork out the $750 or more will just be switching to globill.

I still have not heard anything about this directly from my processor, but if I don't hear something good by the end of the week I will definitely be switching. Possibly sooner.

Straight up bruther.

Why does visa need to protect itself against the chargebacks? It's the processors (and ultimately the merchants) that take it in the rear with a chargeback...visa still makes money on the deal....just not as much as they'd like to. A processor get's billed for the initial transaction, then when a chargeback occurs Visa gets the money back from the processor and charges an additional fee. Then to help ease the swelling the processors repeat the process to the merchant. If a processor has too high of a chargeback ratio...Visa smacks them with a much larger fee as well.

I'm kind of two sided on this issue....I am happy this will help weed out some of the bad boys while at the same time I feel there are more ulterior motives behind this. The thing that gets me about this....the big companies who like to fuck around with people *won't* be affected like this....it may not be *as* easy as before but it's not going to be hard to get around it.:2 cents:

What I wanna know is who can a non-US company use as a processor?

Glo-Bill?

what about the existing rebills, guys?

i'd say this is way too important to be overlooked.

Extortion from Visa, and threats from the *processors*. This just keeps getting better.

Well some of you are missing the REAL point..If visa cracks down on third parties..or better yet third paties give up the issue of managing their customer data base to Visa,this whole thing is really about charge backs ya know.What do ya think Sponsorship programs are gonna do to free site webmasters that seem to be the biggest cause of charge backs for them now that they have run a tighter ship with Visa...shit rolls downhill.

I was thinking the exact same thing....not even considering the suit but 40 billion is 40 billion no matter how you shake a stick at it. Why would any company want to give that up unless they could make more from dropping it.

Cutting up my visa cards now, doubt they will miss my measly $2500 a month in transcations but fuck that, I can use my american express.

I don't even mind the $750 fee , but the fact that it recurs yearly? Bullshit and extortion.

If anyone using EPOCH continues to use them after hearing what this guy has to say.. you deserve any ass-fucking that'll be coming your way.

Does anyone know how this will affect PayPal????
If so, please post. Thanks.

So I wonder who exactly these people will be at VISA, who get to view the lists of urls, sex site owners and their personal info.

I bet they can't wait. What a butt reaming this is. I can't wait to hear the horror stories when that info gets loose.

Don't forget...a good portion of North America - including shareholders - are very active members of the religious right...for a company like VISA to pull out of this business,,,I think there would just as many shareholders applauding the move away from adult sites.

Plus, (read my post above) all indications are that this is a US merchant banking issue, and will not effect companies that choose to deal with Globill or other alternative processors.

So is this 750 per processor or just once to visa? So if you use 3 processors on your site, do you pay 3 times?

This is just more of the same Bin Laden bullshit... ever since 911 all the offshore banking shit has got more restricted because of "terrorism" -- yeah right... Like Brad said, I bet this is more about money laundering and scams... VISA will just hand over all this "reporting" info to the Feds/IRS so they can bust heads. The $750 fee is only there to keep the paperwork for them to a minimum.

This won't affect smaller paysites -- AVS is a better deal these days anyway -- the conversion ratios and retention is better -- the AVS will get get more sophisticated affiliate program (some do already)...

I think IBill, CCBill and Epoch will lose a lot of biz to AVS. I bet these companies are frantically working right now on their own AVS systems or partnerships so they don't lose biz to AVS!

My prediction is that this Globill "escape plan" is a red herring -- IBill, CCBill and Epoch aren't stupid -- if there was an escape from this -- they would have moved offshore too... Sounds to me like Epoch was just cut out of the loop of information -- and the axe will fall hard on them later -- we definitely aren't getting the full story here...

The religious right is tiny. It is politically powerful, but not large or otherwise particularly influential. Politically, it represents a tiny part of the Republican party... an incredibly small minority that has some power because of its traditional (lost) strength and big mouth. Socially, the percentage of people who side with the religious right is almost as vocal, but even smaller. They may have control of the situation, but not through numbers, which means that control is tenuous.

im going to start pimpdog billing llc.

I could handle this shit better than anyone at both epoch and ccbill. I might be a stupid mother fucker, but i could still handle this way better than either company. fuck you all, i hope you die. DIE BITCHES< DIE!

If you read between the lines of the new announcement you can see the shape of the future:

"Sponsored Merchants must be approved by Visa for processing Visa transactions under the new rules"

This means your site can be rejected at Visa's discretion. If you have bad credit, a lewd URL or a criminal record you will be out.

If this doesn't happen right away, it will soon.

Or maybe this is just a golden opportunity for IBill, CCBill and Epoch to start shaving smaller paysites income... Until now there was no way for a processor to shave a small paysite (was there?) -- now all they have to do is put all the small players under AVS and then start shaving...

If you need a public relations person, I'm available.

What a fucking stupid thread. I only read the first two pages and the last one, but I am completely astounded by the fact that people spend more time crying than looking at the situation objectively.

1. Registration fee. Big fucking deal. If you don't have 750 bucks, turn your site into an avs premium, move the price up a little higher and go on with your business. If you have a reseller program and you arent making enough to afford 750 bucks, then you probably need to re-evaluate how you run your business to start with.

Another option is for site owners to group together, start a new shell to receive payment from processors and distribute funds from that corp based on what each site takes in. Of course if a couple people together have enough to pay for the incorporation and accounting I would think they could just pay to register.

2. Location. I have heard, from a merchant banking house in GERMANY that we deal with, that the regulations are the same there as here. On November 1, if we are not incorporated in Germany they will no longer be able to process for us due to these same regulations. Now WHY in the HELL would a third party Euro banking solution make up something like this? They wouldn't. So for everyone screaming about how processors should go offshore, I guess you'd all better be setting up offshore corporations so you can use them. And it's much more expensive to set up and run a corporation in a different country than it is to pay a registration fee in the one you are in.

3. The most important point of all. WHY this is happening. Well it's pretty fucking simple. You take a bunch of cheats and thieves, let them get access to peoples credit cards and then watch what they do. XPICS among others comes to mind for me, though I'll keep the other names quiet since alot of them still do business today.

It's not just Visa that is sick and tired of the fraud and the cheating, it's the banks themselves. 95% of banks DO NOT accept high risk transactions but due to the fact that they are grouped with other banks that do, they become potentially liable for losses incurred by the banks that do take high risk.

This is a high risk business, not a fucking free for all. Visa, and soon to be Mastercard, are well within their rights to do this, they are for profit companies, as are the banks that issue and acquire cards.

Oh and the Mastercard logo thing is pretty simple. It's a copyright violation, and if you are the one with the merch acct then you have no right to use their logo.

I was just about to re-release my paysite. For me the question isn't 'can I afford to pay $750' because of course I -could- the question is, 'is it worth it to pay $750?' and the answer is likely going to be no. I suspect that my paysite will be becoming a premium AVS site now....

shitty

KK, the only problem with the location is that it's really hard to do all the paperwork required to open a US company on such a short notice... hm...

Do you consider yourself a pro? Nice BumCircus button in your sig...... Another ORIGINAL idea by the sic-cash team... idiot

agreed

further to

agreed - personally I'd like to see it on any adult Domaign URL too - a $5000 yearly fee if you want to display adult content on your url - free sites too