uhm.....rand......can I have the dvd player?

He is trying hard for one ;)

Go get'm..:thumbsup :thumbsup

You are so right.... You just do not know how RIGHT you are...and that's my :2 cents:

Now am not 100% sure but I think it was... they went over to England got fixed up with some bank...and then the bank held the funds on them for like 6 months or something like this... but you are 100% right...about doing business with his company... after he has let his ass over load his mouth.. many many times... some of these people... have head up ass so god dam far.....

So, Visa is charging $500 up front, $350 per year. Ibill, CCbill, and Epoch are charging $750 up front and $500 per year.

I appreciate the honesty about where the balance goes (bank and processors), though I bet a majority is profit for Ibill, CCbill, and Epoch.. please correct me if I'm wrong.

Isn't that a little like price-fixing? None of the three is willing to absorb the administrative cost for a competitive edge by passing Visa's fees straight through? They'd rather all get their little extra money and take competition out of this tough situation... as far as I know that is against the law.

In the big picture, this is not a big deal of course, but just wanted to point this out and hopefully get feedback from one of the three.

5 long pages of analysis by pro webmasters and this is the only person that has actually grasped the situation as far as I can see. :)

Visa has seen millions of merchant fee $'s go down the drain with 3rd party proccessers.

My only real concern is that it dosnt take a giant leap to say that AVS are doing the same thing, how will visa tackle them?

In my opinion... good for the big guys.. and shitty for the small guys.

Here is a thought, we could close all of our sites now, and stick visa with all the chargebacks and put them out of business first. In reality, if you can't play with the big dogs get off of the pourch. There is always Pay Pal as an option too.:helpme

Hi Petr,

Actually Glo-Bill has a program to make it easy for users to migrate to our billing sysem from another system. While we cannot take the credit card database from another 3rd party biller (that would be illegal), we have an automated system that emails users just before they expire on the "old processor" and make it easy for them to opt in for continued rebilling by simply entering their credit card number.

We have used this program to great success for webmasters coming to us from other billing companies. Granted, the conversion is not 100%. Some users do drop out. But we have seen conversions as high as 90%, depending on the quality of the site. The better the website, the greater the conversion ratio.

Interested webmasters are welcome to call or email my sales staff about the program.

mrbling,

Well said.... but you stuill need to pay the registration fees. Well worth it to have your own account though.

Mitch

I hear everyone say well I have my $750.
So what if MC discover and all those other credit card companies follow suit? do you have enough money then?
we process my own credit cards. we have not heard anything about this from our merchant sevices.
I am assuming this is to do with third party billers.
I must say I blame the comsumers of our paysites, and the banks that issue these credit cards. The banks are to free in allowing these assholes to charge back even though they use our services.
You can have all the right documentation for each transaction and they still get their money back. OR do they????
Or is ibill and the others trying to fuck us all.
I have searched visa.com for their new regs but have not found any as of yet. Or do we take the word of Ibill and the rest on this one.
If you have the time, (which most of us don't) you can set -up your own merchant account and charge cards by phone for as little as $500.00
anyway
I will let you know if I find out anything tomorrow.
I will make a few phone calls to see what is going on with visa.

It seems everyone is ready to sell out the next guy in a heart beat. The reason why this happened is because they know we won't work together to contest this, The same principle happens in life the rich get richer and poorer get poorer.

Just because you can afford it and it will bring more business to larger companies does not make it a good thing.

I seen a post earlier saying the site should be registered and maybe pay $200 that sounds better and safer. but to suck $700 bucks out of good companies because of shitty charge backs. Well @#$% that.

The bottom line is it's the banks fault for letting customers get their money back and not being able to stop fraud themselves. So hey lets put the wait on the merchant well @#$% that too.

Peace,

Charles

Do you know any dutch proccessors?

Kimmy Kim is right. And, in my opinion, this is probably long overdue. Overall, in the long run, it's probably going to be good for the biz.

And, for everybody else who's bitching about it ... well ... maybe it's time for you to get out.

How many Dutch processors are there? I know only one: multicards.com

Why wasn't we given this information much sooner ?

Or did VISA just tell you guys (ccbill,epoch,ibill) ??

Or did you just figure out how to handle this, 1 week before
the paperwork starts ?

I'm not from US, how funny is that at a time like this ?
Now I need to get a social sec ID, Tax ID, Bussines name
in US and like that is not hard enougf I need to do it within
a week LOL

Anyone have the stats on how much visa process against Mastercard and other cards ???


Jeroman

60-70%

I am really shocked!

Kimmy Kim,

Yep...I agree.

What people don't realize is this....

They get that 1 chargeback out of 100 and they are at their 1%.

More in likely, they'll have 3 to 5 chargebacks out of 100 and that'll put their system on being monitored, possible a reserve account.
If they're over that 5% chargeback ratio for a 3 month peroid.
VISA can have their account terminated.

Poeple, I have had merchant accounts.
Its not all cream and cookies.

You have to play the game much..much more carefully when you have your own. Play the game right and be carefu. Stick with the very best in customer service and when you get a chargeback inquiry, don't fuck around and try to dispute. You'll lose without that SIGNED authorization from the consumer.

You let down just a hair, you'll find you been blacklisted and COULD fuck up your credit. It has happened to some people. I was lucky enough to have enough in reserve to cover my ass.

Why do you think the BIG boys use 3rd party processing?
Because of the headaches that come along with t Merchant account.
Merchant account is up to you. Things I enjoyed about it. If I had a BIG weekend. My Money was in my bank account daily.

Bad things are chargebacks.

I've been in this business now 6, almost 7 years.
I had both, merchant and 3rd party.

IMHO, sticky with the 3rd party. They cover your ass. The $750 fee...fuck it. All part of life. Ever changing business shit that happens on a every day thing. It's always something.

You wanna play the merchant account game.
Its your ass, your choice...not mine.

Some of you will be glad you had a merchant account. Some of you will wish you never left 3rd party.
Be fucking careful.

The big boys must be doing something wrong. All the people I talk to who run decent paysites (some of them pretty big ones) don't have problems with chargebacks.

Maybe it's because they have what the tour promises, don't charge $40.00 for a pile of shit, and don't try to mislead people with 3 day trials that renew automatically in 48 hours and other crap like that.

The only people in danger of getting kicked for chargebacks are people who run crappy paysites and rely on people forgetting to cancel or who bury crap in their TOS.

:thumbsup

I agree 100%

Nah...Surfers rarly read the TOS.
They just wanna get it off.

Yes, there are some who run shitty shits.
Lots of them and promise the moon and have no where near what they promise.

BUT...most chargebacks come from people who don't give a shit about what you have inside.
Chargebacks come from people who know they can get away with it, or college students who spend so much on porn. They don't have anything left on their card,or wives who find out their husbands been jerking off to the computer and claim they never signed up for shit.

Reason I know this?
I have 2 filing cabinets full of chargeback reciepts and had numberous phone calls from wives wanting to know whats on their card.
Honestly...you'd be fucking blown away if you read some of the shit and excuses that come in on chargebacks.
Funny thing is..people claim their card number must have been hijacked off the web..but the bank NEVER cancels the card and re-issues a new one.
The real problem is. Banks let consumers do whatever they want.
Making the merchants the fall guy.

The small problem is us.
There are some sites out there that create chargebacks.
The REAL problems are the consumers.

I can go to Amazon.com right now and order $300 in books..get charged and next month...chargeback without breaking a sweat and still get all them books for free.

Reason...No signed reciept.
No proof I authorized any sale.

You also gotta remember this.

I bet , not just the porn sites are going thru this.
I bet...lots of mainstream sites are going thru the same thing.

The internet game as whole is high risk.

Why..NO SIGNED RECIEPT.
CONSUMERS CAN CHARGEBACK EASILY.
Untill the banks get a grip on the consumers.
We will always have issues regaurding this matter.
ALWAYS.

like any other business handles start-up, zoning and licensing fees i imagine. if i want to open a bar, I need a $25,000 license before i have the privilege of billing a client.

angel investors, partners, friends, credit, friend's credit =)

Well, since my e-mail from CCBILL yesterday, and after 2 days of reading this entire thread, I can see that we all have to do some hard thinking on what the best course of action is. I've been doing this adult website stuff since 1996, and have had my own ups and downs, including $8,000/mo profit my first couple of years, down to almost nothing now.

My first 3rd party processor, WWIA in Crestview, FL, due to an unscrupulous (sp?) sys admin, had his merchant account frozen in Dec, 1999, my $3,000 check bounced, he ended up over $100,000 in debt to Visa/MC, and owed me over $7,000. Because I had the lowest charge-back ratio, he kept me on with his new merchant account until he decided this shit wasn't worth it anymore, and 1 year later he paid me my arrears (money I thought was lost forever). I checked in on getting my own merchant account but decided "pledging my house and ALL my assets" wasn't worth it. Too many surfers abusing the system and charging back for legitimate signups (covered many times in this thread).

When I was shopping for a new 3rd party processor at Internext (then IA2000), CCBILL (Ron & Craig) woowed me by telling me they use multiple servers and multiple locations, to move bad accounts from one to the other to "mathematically" keep the ratios down. Don't know for sure if it's true or not, but it sounded good.

Like everyone else, I have to make the same decisions, and as crappy as the net has gotten for signups and retentions, I can't let $750.00 keep me from receiving the $1,500/month I'm struggling to maintain. However, I did e-mail CCBILL this morning and ask if I can charge a higher rate for the VISA charges than I do for the others, as VISA cards all start with the number "4", so it should be an easy programming change, but CCBILL replied back they "couldn't" do it. I prefer to believe they don't want to do it.

Finally, this morning, I raised the prices on my pay sites 50%. Guess the only way to beat this is pass it on to the consumer, and maybe their power of a large number of complaints to VISA will get the assholes to re-consider what they are doing.

Regards, and thanks for taking the time to read such a long reply.

:stoned

vik

PayPal, what is happening with them?

There is nothing on their site concerning this Visa thing?!

"Funny thing is..people claim their card number must have been hijacked off the web..but the bank NEVER cancels the card and re-issues a new one.
"


That is a good point. Which brings me to another one, if these no-signature purchases are the reason that customers can get away with chargebacks in the first place, what happened to the idea of using a pin number, or even that three-digit number on the back of the card that some merchants require in addition to the credit card number as proof that you in fact are the holder? Methinks VISA doesn't give that much of an f, they'd rather just take the dough. Bastids.

fuck that i quit!






j/k this will keep a good portion of the newbs away, and ive never habe more than 3% chargeback/credit total at the very max...

Well, someone earlier brought up a good point. This brings to mind another question:

What is to stop Visa from just handing out FREE money to the customers whenever they feel like it, and charging the webmasters back for it???

If they don't make every effort to stop customer fraud... and put all the heat on the webmasters, what kind of business is that?

That just isn't right.

I feel that the customer should be responsible for something.

many big companies probably dont hae their own merchant because they do alot of devious and bad things :)

its not their merchant so they dont care..

I have my own merchant and its below 1% in CB/RF.

But who knows.

I guess the adult industry will thin out.

I work for a credit card company, in collections. Actually, ive seen charges that were claimed as false be overturned because the physical address the items was shipped to was the same.

interesting theory for chargebacks, to make it foolproof. :-) Buy this CD, get 1 month on access. Buy this video, and get 6 months of access. Access starts immediatly, and item gets shipped to address on credit card file.

Voodoo..thats the problem.

The Banks and VISA allow consumers to chargeback just because they have an itch and often as they like.

What they NEED to be doing is looking at the consumer...and us.
But most chargebacks are due to consumers KNOW they can.

I've said some of this in another Visa thread, so excuse me if I'm reapeating myself.....

Recently someone on GFY posted a link to a password page. This gave me access to a lot of different member's areas. One of the websites - a cheerleading website - had a member's area full of feeds. No pictures, no real content - only feeds. I could imagine what their chargeback rate is like.

I'm working my ass off making sure all of our tours are honest, and that are members areas are udpated on a regular basis with never seen before content we've shot ourselves. The end result is nearly no chargebacks or refunds at all.

Anyone can get into the adult business. You don't need to really file any paperwork, and you don't need wads of cash like a real business. The end result is a lot of assholes get into the business.

Visa is doing what the online adult business coudln't do itself - Cleaning house.

Media, are you the "booooobaaaaahhh" MEDIA ?

If yes, nice to see you again after months/years/whatever.

BOOOOOOBAHHHHHHHH!

Jer

Does it means I'll be finally able to use my Diners Club credit card? :winkwink:
On the other hand, if Visa requires just 500, why processors want 750? There's no possible way they'll spend 250 in administration spents due to this, so I guess it's more like "OK, here's a good excuse to get some money for nothing". I don't know how or when, but this will clearly affect 3rd part processors very bad, just a feeling. And the main reason will be that people trusting in them as service providers is seeing they don't care very much about customer (webmasters) retention. It's like Marketing 1, instead of looking for a way to go thru this with the minimum pain for their customers, they decide to charge even more :( Hope they get back to Earth soon

And yes, I've the $750, but I simply don't want to give it for free, nobody gives me money for nothing, I don't want to do it either, sorry to ego-trip based posters

And finally: I know a very good way for non-hassle, non-chargebacks payment, a system that doesn't exist, but since I don't have the (big) money to implement it, I guess you'll need to wait for something else

dont be bashful... tell us how you also
solved world hunger,
global warming and
cured cancer while finding
a solution for permanent peace in the Middle East.
.,... or you just dont feel like talking about those
things too??
:1orglaugh

err... no, did I mention something about that? I said I have a very good idea I cannot implement because it needs big money, it's not a delerium, it's not fantasy, it's just a very good idea I had like 3 years ago and polish along these years hoping to sometimes have the money to implement it.

And no, I won't share it, why the hell would I do that? There are too many clowns in here, but when it comes to business, I've no time for clowns, be more open minded and you'll discover a new world of possibilities :winkwink: