i have gluten problems as well. for the past several months i have slowly switched my diet to exclude meat, dairy and wheat.
it's quite a challenge to eat, but i feel great. :thumbsup

Yes of course you can get proteins without eating meat. There's a reason, however, that _most_ vegetarians and especially vegans are not very muscular, even though they may be trim.

All proteins are not created equal. I get low fat proteins from lean red meat, fishes, egg white, chicken, turkey, whey, fat free milk, black beans, etc. The mixture is important for strong muscle growth. Vegetable proteins tend to be the least useful in muscle production.

I don't really buy the "more healthy" aspects necessarily, either. Yes, vegetarians and vegans tend to be slimmer, however, you can eat meat products and still keep your fat intake low. I eat red meat, I also train from 3-5 hours a day 6 days a week including a 12km run every morning. How are you going to tell me the average vegetraian is "more healthy" than me?

one thing i learned about desert survival (i like to hike) is to never trust a legume. :thumbsup

Do YOU spit or swallow.
Don't be shy, we care, we really do.

When trash like you is around of course i spit.

How MUCH red meat do you eat?
From the 2nd paragraph it doesn't sound like you are someone who sits down to a half a kilo of meat and some potato's with nothing else ... but will you be able to keep that training regime up for the rest of your life? Probably not ... your body will probably change and you'll have to change your habits with it. Vegetable proteins may not help you build up your muscles, but the vitamins they contain will help prevent the damage you are doing through excessive exercise and the fibre's will help move all that protein through your insides to prevent it sticking around and causing cancer.

But having lots of muscles doesn't make one healthy either ... I think comparing poo is more effective than comparing muscle mass where the 'health' test is concerned! LOL

Bottom line though is what the hell would I know about your body and your health?! We're all just doing what feels best for our own bodies ...

I probably eat an 8-10 portion of red meat maybe 3-4 times a week for dinner. The rest split between salmon and chicken.

Protein doesn't stick around anywhere, because I drink a ton of water and do a lot of cardio exercise. My muscles need a lot of fuel for repair, and that's where the proteins go.

I do eat a lot of potatoes, without butter or crap of course, just plain baked potatoes because they're a complex carbohyrdate with a low glycemic value. :)

Word is, it is already in the supply. I have read quotes from people who do cloning of animals and cloned animals HAVE in fact been processed and made into meat and served.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...601337_pf.html

Funny thing is, I have always somewhat been animal rights, however I always suffered the same hypocritical day-to-day living that stated otherwise. You can't be for "animal rights" and then eat them everyday. You cant be " a dog or cat" person, and then eat cows.

Abe Lincoln said that basically you cant be for "human rights" and not "animal rights" to be in support of both brings humans back to its whole.

"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being." - Abe Lincoln

Blacks were freed by a person who believed in animal rights.

I believe that like Albert Einstein in his final years, that man must become vegetarian to reach a higher plane of existence. It takes strength and courage, and discipline to be veg. Einstein realized it, and so did Abe Lincoln, and so do I.

I rather put myself in that category than with Ted Nugent.

Ill back up my Einstein comment with a quote:

Thats hilarous...

I agree with them all, and have lived a life of hypocrisy that lead me to change my life to match my beliefs.

...and I still eat fish every day if I can help it.

Fletch, what's wrong with eating fish?

For you, nothing. nothing is wrong with eating anything if you want to. I am not here to cast that sort of judgement on anyone. However, whats in the wter, is in the fish, have you looked at our pretty oil-free pollution-free oceans anytime lately? Mercury?

For me personally, I would rather not have things on my plate that were once alive, with a beating heart, with blood flowing through them.

Its me, no one else who has to look at my plate of food, or rest my head after when I go to sleep.

Fletch, have you checked the quality of the air lately!?

Breathing is as dangerous as eating fish and...
"Life is VERY dangerous by itself, we all know how it ends"
;)

another question for Vegans:
Are most Vegas also Hippies? or dress like them? and are you mostly spiritual?

I've been trying to keep an eye on what kinds of meats I eat. Thankfully ATL is a big city and there are places you can buy non-antibiotic chicken, beef, and pork. Most of the fish I eat here is no more than 1 mile from where it was caught :) I'm a BIG milk drinker and having a history of osteoporosis, I plan on staying that way. If I'm around a TJs I'll buy their organic skim, but otherwise usually the local skim.

My grandfather "retired" from owning a large snack food industry and buying a cattle farm so we've really been eating junk forever. Everyone who dies a natural death has been well into their 80's or 90's and there has never been any cancer on either side of the family. My maternal uncle had a heart attack at 45 but he was a VERY heavy smoker and beer drinker. He's stopped both, that was 20 years ago and he's fine now. Plays golf every day too.

My blood pressure is so low that when it was even slightly elevated my stepmother pointed out in the ER that they needed to really start moving because that just wasn't normal for me - she was 100% correct.

I think you should pick the lifestyle YOU like and live it. If you like meat, eat it. Sometimes nothing says "YUM" like being hosed off after pigging out at a BBQ :) If you're a vegan or vegetarian, more power to you.

My sister has been a vegetarian since she was five. Right now she's in the middle of a "raw fast" where she can only eat raw or lightly steamed foods. What amazed me was that the other night she had two HUGE plates of beets, turnips, kale, asparagus, and some sort of lemon sauce which is the only seasoning she can use. Within 20 minutes she was hungry again. My Thai shrimp w/rice kept me full until the next AM :)

I'm Vegan and I swallow ;)

Okay I have been reading about Vitamin B all morning basically... what I have found is this. No animal can "create" it - nor plants. B12 cannot be made by plants or by animals. It originates in the intestines of animals, it is a bacteria. HUman feces has vitamin B in it. Vitamin B does not come "from meat" it is preent in the intestines of animals when killed. People who say the only source for Vitamin B is eating animal flesh are wrong.

http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/...12-sources.php

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

So,... onto daily values.

The DV you should take in of Vitamin B12 is 6mcg - I have read everything from 2.5mcg to 6.0 mcg

Doctors recommend vegetarians take Vitamin B supplements, and drink plant based fortified milk with b12, b6 etc... which i do.

So to the vitamin b12 debate i say...

http://www.fletchxxx.com/images/vitaminb.jpg

... vitamin B12 - pfft

thats a pic of the back of my bottle of "high potency vitamin B complex pills"

Just for the record I don't call myself a "vegan", its almost impossible to live that way, just a vegetarian. Vegans avoid all animal products, no leather, etc.

My fox stoles are already dead, and my closet is full of leather jackets, and they are going nowhere. But I'm not about to start collecting skins either.

and don't get me started on my shoe collection. Many animals died for those too. I have so many they'll probably rot before I wear them out. And in Louisiana its all broken cobblestone or grass. Heels are out of the question here, pretty indefinitely til I move. :1orglaugh

Hate to break it to you, But every one dies. Sucks but thats the facts.

NosMo

I have a question that I asked one Vegan. She got very upset and would not come up with a response.

If you are a true vegan, how can you justify having a pet?

in addition, here is what I had for breakfast!

ISNT IT PRETTY???

http://www.fletchxxx.com/images/veg-breakfast.jpg

One whole, on the vine tomatoe (for lycopene) and some Romain lettuce hearts.

yum!

You compare having a pet to eating them?

lol

Also, i dont call myself a vegan, vegetarian if anything...

vegans are a whole different group of people.

A vegetarian is someone who has given up eating animals, that doesnt mean I am against owning a pet.

did she have some animals caged up or something?

I'll answer though... we have two miniature pinschers who are domesticated and definitely couldn't survive on their own. I wouldn't want a caged up bird or tied up dog though. That stuff actually makes me sad. :1orglaugh

Even when I went raw that would have been a sucky breakfast. Give me fruit please.

If you can't wear them or line your couch or car with them, why can you own them?

Yes

thats not really all i had man... as ive said I have fruit in the morning too. Its Friday morning, so I am out of Kiwis, and on my last apple for the week LOL - its also fricking cold so I didnt run out to get more kiwis heheh

I eat fruit first then a bowl of salad, i also took this pic before i put in the carrotts... every morning is different.

To claim its "sucky" is silly.

You would have to ask a vegan, i am not one. I am VEGETARIAN.

Some vegetarians eat eggs, and drink milk. I just do not. There are three types of vegetarians. Vegan is a way further. Trying to bind me to their rules is a bit silly since I have never claimed to be a vegan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

compare the two

Being a VEGAN has to do with animal rights, thats what "veg-an" is - VEGTARIAN/ANIMAL RIGHTS = vegan.

vegetarians are different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

hahahahaha.

there is no such thing as "unsolicited" when you post on a msgboard. but yes, i am. Then send photos of the results.

Kudos to the Vegetarian / Vegas on this board.

I'd love to take you all out to dinner or lunch... maybe Phoenix?
Vegas going to phoenix, let me know!!! vic "at" kickass "dot" com

Cheapskate!

Pretty sure I did.

Yep.

I meant in regards to you asking me, but its obvious the person you asked wasn't a true vegan, which is why it pissed them off :)

From what I gather vegans mostly own "saved" pets who wouldve have been put to death otherwise. And they wouldnt be "caged" if they were a true/pure vegan.

Sorry, not sure how you came to the conclusion I was asking you and not some Vegan that was reading the thread.

cheepskate = nash. ;)

interesting replies from Fletch

miscommunication i guess.

you quoted me with reply as question, so i answered.

I guess i took it wrong, i thought it was directed to me, sicne you quoted me.

Cheers man!

In this regard, m'lady, you should try M.A.C. for your lashes.
Animal Friendly, and rad.

my eyelashes say hello to you
ok I will take your advice Vic, this thread already inspired me ;)

mint! mint!

I did? http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...&postcount=121

yep.

http://www.fletchxxx.com/images/veganpets.gif

in this post man

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...&postcount=121

you quoted me with reply in question form, so i answered ;)

just message board miscommunication, nothing new

rock on!

Not until you decided to reply to the original question. http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...&postcount=123

In regards t o make up (i dont wear any) but I have read also that AVON is animal friendly. :)

I have ordered some products from http://www.natures-gate.com/ (toothpaste, mouthwash, deodrant etcc...)

I love the deodorant, regular stuff from stores always irritates my underarms and burns me, but this natural stuff works and feels great.

this orange and patchouli deodorant is my fave

http://www.natures-gate.com/shop/sho...&withLin ks=1

great stuff

I see we're down to the hair-splitting here.

Time to eat.


http://members.shaw.ca/billy1-99/pics/steakdinner2.jpg

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
aare
138!

we are 138!

we aaareeeee 138!

Can recovering vegans come to your dinner? I was vegetarian for 14 years and vegan for 3 years, but I sold out to sushi! I served many years but fell victim to those moist and savory little hand rolls. Now I eat fish all the time. I call it Pescatarian, don't hate on me my yin!

how does having a pet harm an animal intrinsically? it doesn't therefore it's fine.

for the record, i am a vegetarian not a vegan.

and for the record, "vegan" is defined not as having to do with animal rights but as being a diet that contains no animal products at all.

I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian, to be specific, though i don't eat many eggs. just don't really like them much - or scared of them.

also, you don't NEED to be hulk hogan or arnold schwartz to be strong, and how strong to you NEED to be anyway?

nutrition comes from plants - PERIOD.
you get nutrition from animals because they eat plants.
some of the nutrition in animal food is sythesized by the animal itself - fine, eat animal products that don't intrinsically require death or pain to the animal - like cheese or whatever.

you'll be strong enough - trust me.