Increasing taxes on energy companies means more money in the government's hands and more money available for military spending. Is that your point?

So the Exxon Mobil shareholders own the government? Well, buy shares of Exxon Mobil then.

Shareholders are people and it is the people that own the government...and every two years...four years and six years elect...or reelect the people they choose to represent them in government. Some complain about special interest lobbies...but the people are the largest group of lobbiests. They can and should be lobbying their elected representatives on a regular basis. Government for the people and by the people.

Exxon is manipulating the price of oil and gas. They own the oil being pumped, the company that is pumping it, the company that is shipping it, the pipes that are sending it, the refineries that are making the gas, the trucks that are carrying it, and the stations that are putting it in your tank.

Just because they have all these companies with different names, doesn't mean they aren't controlling and manipulating the market.

Why is it that a new refinery hasn't been built in well over 20+ years? Every time the price of gas goes up it is because of not enough refineries, or a refinery is down for maintenance.

They also use the price of a barrel of oil. Even though they are pumping it themselves. Just because they can sell it on the open market for $100 doesn't mean that it costs them any more to pump.

Why is it that I can't even buy a car that gets over 60mpg in this country when they have them in europe? Why was our energy policy with this admin done behind closed doors for the first time ever, and taken all the way to the supreme court to protect who was on the panel?

You guys are all fucking idiots defending these companies that are fucking up our economy. Would you defend the guy that raped you mother because he is a guy and was horny?

Why build more refineries when existing facilities can be expanded and new technology can improve capacity - all much cheaper?

Oil is a cyclical business. There was SPARE refining capacity in the US until 10 years ago. Since then refiners have been expanding their capacity at their existing facilities which is a hell of a lot cheaper than building new refineries. In those ten years expansion of existing facilities has added the equivalent capacity of building 10 new refineries. Why would you build a new refinery from the ground up and have to deal with all the NIMBA political attacks such plans always draw (class action suits always come up from new proposed refineries) when you can just expand existing facilities. Federal, state and local laws (environmental regulations) work against the building of new facilities. It can take 5 to 10 years to get approval to build a new refinery. It's like trying to build a nuclear power plant. There is an attempt for the past few years tp get permission to build a new refinery in South Dakota which is meeting a lot of local opposition and other redtape.

On top of all that refining margins (the crack spread) have been low the past decade.

Let's remember also that peak oil production in the US occurred in the 1970s.
We now import much more of our oil and that oil is being increasingly refined elsewhere. Refining capacity world-wide meets present demand. As demand increases existing faciities will be expanded and new faclities built but they will more than likely be built overseas than here in the US.

Meanwhile US companies ARE involved in the building of new refineries overseas where laws are more favorable and costs less prohibitive. Conoco has recently announced plans to build a refinery with Aramco. That will take 5 years from inception to production.

Even just expanding existing facilities can take 5 years because of pressure from environmental groups, local ordinance and fed and state laws.

If what you say is true, then why does the price of gas go thru the roof when just one refinery goes offline for even a day.

I love people defending the oil industry. You must like $5 a gallon gas, because that's where it's going by the summer.

It's 30+ years. And it's because of environmentalists, legislation that favours them and the NIMBY crowd.

OPEC controls the price of crude, not Exxon. And they set it based on supply and demand. Economics 101.

Face it - without these companies you wouldn't have an economy to fuck up.

Then you'd have to find something or someone else to blame for whatever perceived grievances you have.

What did I say that you are challenging?

Aluminum, zinc and gold are near all time record highs. Are you angry at the mining industry?

Corn, wheat and spy prices are near record all time highs. Wheat and soybeans hit record highs this week actually. You are paying more for your groceries than ever before. Are you angry with farmers?

When the stock market hits record highs are you angry with the NYSE, AMEX and NASDAQ?

You are free to participate in the fortunes of any of these industries in the capital markets.

I'm curious where you get the number that 48% of people own oil stock. I know a lot of people do through their 401K's, but that seems a little bit high.

You might want to read just a bit on how american oil companies work. They get a % for pumping the oil and running the show for foreign countries. Saudi Arabia is 10% so when oil was 20/barrel they made 2/barrel now that it is 100/barrel they make 10/barrel. So would you like them to charge the Saudis less? Iraq has a big company that used to get a lot of this work maybe they should give the work to other nations? The French would like a large multi national company that pays a buttload in taxes maybe?

Where do you see that they make too much $$$? Ideally the US govt should support the interests of XOM as it is the interest of the US also. But the fact that you now pay more for gas has blinded you into picking the first "enemy" that you could identify.

Actually, we are given a couple choices on each side. Candidates that are chosen by party leaders to be allowed to be on their respective parties ballots. The laws are so skewed against 3rd parties that it makes it near impossible for them to enter in races and win. Money is still one of the biggest factors and if you are not able to either raise millions, or loan your campaign millions, you have no chance.

That's not even talking about President where you actually have little to no say. Both parties have "superdelegates" that get more power than entire voting districts in your state. You aren't even voting for a candidate, just a delegate to vote for you candidate. That delegate isn't even obligated to vote for the person the people voted for. In general elections we still have electorates. So you're not voting for a candidate, just telling your electorates who you want. They can still cast a vote for whoever the hell they want. Even if they do go with what the states decide, 80% of the states are either red or blue meaning your vote for President means absolutely shit in those states.

It's not unlike countries like Russia that parade out a few candidates to look like a completely open and democratic election. Every year we are given a few choices who differ on some issues that won't change (abortion, immigration, etc) or matter to many people (flag burning, gay marriage). They are essentially the same, they are owned by a few people and work to give as much of your tax dollars as they can to their friends who helped them get elected.

Did you maybe think that corn and wheat are high do to the high prices of gas...maybe...maybe.

Gold is high due to the fact that the dollar is worth shit. We should have never gone off the gold standard.

The part about the stock market just proves how fucking stupid you are.

That works well unless the oil industry is getting HUGE tax breaks and not paying what they should be. Lobbyists are expensive, but paying your taxes costs more.

There was an excellent article in the the Economist a few months back on rising food prices. One of the more interesting conclusions was that increasing wealth in India, China and other parts of the world has increased meat consumption which in turn increases the prices of the products used to feed the livestock.

Changes in demand for grains are supposed to outstrip supply until at least 2015 which should be good for an increase in price of 10-15%

The other factor was the massive new demand for ethanol and the article concluded that this was the number one factor in the increase in recent grain prices . Rising grain prices cause an increase in feeding costs which then cause an increase in meat prices etc etc.

I can scan the article for you later if interested.

Then of course you have money supply inflation and a general commodity bubble especially as we have seen funds created for the sole purpose of investing in commodities.

And yes, rising transportation costs do increase prices of other goods. To what extent you might want to say soy or wheat prices have increased as a result of rising oil prices I don't know.

It's called hyperbole. Intentional exaggeration to make a point.

Exactly my point. Since you are able to figure out quite easily that there are market and other economic reasons causing price changes in any number of industries it should seem quite obvious to you that the same holds true in the oil industry.

What should be obvious at any rate is that if Exxon, Conoco and others are so good at manipulating energy prices why were profits so low in the late 1990s? Back in the late 1990s oil prices fell to $10 per barrel. Predictions were rampant that oil was heading to $5 per barrel. Articles and books lamented the oil profits of the past and predicted cheap oil for a very long time. Energy companies took in on the chin. Oil company profits dropped over 90% in 1998! Share prices plummeted. This causes mergers between some oil giants in order to reduce fixed costs.

There was also a collapse in oil prices in the mid 1980s. Did Exxon cause a severe drop in oil prices in 1986 in order to hurt themselves? How about in 1998?

No, oil has been a cyclic industry and high prices cause an increase in exploration and drilling, the building of new rigs, new technologies and so on. Eventually more oil comes on to the market causing an eventual glut, a decrease in exploration and drilling, projects are abandoned, companies going out of business, industry consolidation through mergers and acquisitions (remember Boone Pickens?) and the process repeats itself. (Pickens book is a good one BTW).

Whether this cyclicity can maintain as we approach peak oil if difficult to say.

You also have the interesting factor of fuel alternatives. During the 1980s collapse in oil prices demand picked up but the same thing didn't happen in the 1990s. This is quite likely because of the alternative fuel sources such as natural gas. Many power companies can run on oil or natural gas so when oil gets expensive relative to natural gas you have a shift to natural gas and so a decrease in oil demand. This is one of the reasons I invested so heavily in natural gas companies last year. Cimarex is up 35% since I bought some; my largest holding.

Where were the huge tax breaks again? Dude your just attacking the wrong guys. Go nuts on opec, that is the thing i think you are mad at.

For real. An organization that controls more than half of the oil traded in markets that meets to decide on oil production quotas depending on whether they think prices are too high or too low. They manipulate the price of oil freely, powerfully and publicly.

yeah, and how 'bout governments taxing gas at the pump. Not too bad here in the US compared to some countries but about 20% of the price of gas at the pump is taxes.

Who do you think owns the rights to a large percentage of the oil. You think the saudi's had the technology to set up all the drilling and refining. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

What point are you trying to make? There are no Exxon board members with voting power at OPEC.

Not really sure about your claim that rights have been maintained to a large percentage of OPEC nation oil. The Saudis nationalized Aramco almost 30 years ago. Iran and BP split years ago. Venezuela just kicked Exxon and COP out. When you read the SEC reports of these companies Middle Eastern oil is just not a very big play for them anymore. COP still has a small interest in Libya. Only 20% of XOM's reserves are in the Middle East/Asian Pacific region and they are a drop in the bucket compared to what is there. Exxon has a total of 1.5 billion barrels of proved reserves in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia/Aramco has 264 billion barrels of proved reserves. (and yes I know that there are a few OPEC member outside of that region)

As far as drilling and refining ability. Exactly. Great American and British oil companies pioneered the way for the 20th century powering our transportation , heating and power needs for centuries. Oh, yeah. They saved the whales too.