Clueless or a liar.

First thing you missed was the original buyer (A) was told to send his customer for his program to me to relicense it. I was well prepared to do so and have done so in the past many times.

The new buyer (B) did not try to negotiate and you know this. He wanted me to supply the content and new license for free. You know this because I spoke to you about it on ICQ and can post the logs. I asked for an advert on your board and you refused.

The new buyer wanted a NEW LICENSE, not a transfer and NEW LICENSE, as he wanted to resell the content after he had been expressly told he did not own the content, he did not even own a license. He has sold the program, our content is still all over it and no new license has been issued.

So the second buyer has sold the program along with my content to a third person (C) which is also in the affiliates area. So lets just recap here.

(A) broke the license by selling it. After being told not to sell it.
(B) bought something he had no license, IDs models releases on and used it as he pleased. Even after he was told he continued to use it and sold it, however we agreed the new buyer would contact me and arrange a new license. I told him to take my content out of the affiliates area. He should know what content he's giving to affiliates is legal. I supplied him with a list of the content.
(C) now has it and breaking the license by using it in the affiliates area. He has the list and has contacted me, because he sent me the copy of the list. So he knows what is mine, knows it should not be in the affiliates area and has not removed it.

AND YOU WANT ME TO APOLOGIZE?????? :321GFY :321GFY :321GFY

And some on this board are astounded I got upset and lost my rag. I bet they would of kept theirs if it were them.

I don't think I've ever said anything about content and the design on tube sites.

And you did not answer my question, so can you please answer instead of trying to "own" me.

Thanks

You missed one.

The seller, the buyer/seller and the present owner. None have a clue what is what. Well that's not true 100% the buyer/seller was given the list and the present owner was given this list and showed it to me. But no worries my content is still in the affiliates area. Unlicensed, undocumented and unpaid for.

http://www.paulmarkham.com/temp/smokincash.jpg

According to the terms of my license, which they chose to ignore. The price of $250 to transfer the license is now changed. To use our content in the affiliates are we want 3 times the listed price. They can now pay that. Plus the transfer fee.

http://lesbofever.com/

http://myexgirlfriendz.com/

http://toyteenies.com/

Our content on the banners and if it's there it would be inside the site as well. But please I must not get upset and call anyone a thief or pirate. Maybe I should do the same to Damage and see what he will call me. LOL

Tour design, affiliates area and I will bet money inside the site.

But I must not get upset. :1orglaugh

Shouldn't the buyers know what content was Paul's? After all they need to have proper 2257 docs in place that should easily give them info about the models' age, content producer, etc.

They didnt beacuse they didnt know what belonged to PM content.Pornonada offered u/p to PM so he can see what is his content and tell him what to remove it but he didnt accept it.

So Damage you think buying a program with content is something you can do without verifying the buyer has the rights to sell the program and the content, the content is legal and all the documents are in place. Then just hand out content you are not positive about it's legality to a lot of affiliates. Good to know how tight you run your ship.

So far I've found 10+ infringements in the affiliates area alone. Not going to tell them to delete the content as it's already been given out to affiliates and it would mean them taking it back, and proving they have done so. So will add it to the bill.

They had the list and ignored it, so not my fault. Run a tight ship and you don't get these problems.

Still think I should say sorry for calling him a thief, what would you call him?

That's not right. Pornonada told me I should give him the content for free. As he had already paid for it. That's when I told him to buy it again and we got to arguing. But even when he knew what was mine he still sold it with our content in the affiliates area. Or is the screen cap from today wrong?

Pornonada actually blocked my original login to his affiliates area and I had to re register a new one today. He has never offered me a u/p to his members area. I will bet if our content is in the banners, in the affiliates area it's inside the site as well.

So please unless you know what you're talking about the less said the better.

Strange.One side claims one thing and other another.Too complicated for me.But tehnicly this is all fault of original owner which didnt checked licence before selling program,so maybe he should be pursued.

hell during that thread i pointed out smokincash was a corporation and the entire ownership of the licience (the corporation) would not have changed with the sale of the affiliate program you claimed that licience to an individual

i responded

after which pornodo offered to pay you 250 to licience it to the smokincash (the corporation)

you still haven't explained why you refuse to licience it to a corporation so the issue would be solved once and for all

Hell you could end the issue right now by posting a list of all the offending content IN THIS THREAD
effectively calling pornado on the claim that he would remove all the offending content in question.

I never sold to Pornonada so your whole post is a crock of ******

I sold to an individual in the first place, but are you saying that if an individual sells it to a corporation it make it all fine?

Offers have been made for the license but that's all we've had so far offers.

I did provide him with a list of our content, which he ignored and sold it with the content in the affiliates area.

Why don't I license to a corporation? I do and we do it all the time. We license to Hustler, Paul Raymond Publications, Score, and many more. But this was not a license to a corporation it was a license to an individual.

Who broke the license therefore making it null and void, or is it only us that sticks to a license? He broke it by selling it after he was told not to.

Pornonada broke it to my knowledge by putting or having our content in his affiliates area without paying for it. That's shaving.

Then he sold it to the new owners without removing the content from the affiliates area, which was agreed. He has the list of what is ours and he gave it to the new owners who passed it to me. I knew I had it, wanted to know if they had it and they do.

So basically you run as tight a ship as DamageX.

People must get to your site and treat you as you think I should be treated, see how nice you are to them.

Thank you for stepping into something you don't have a clue about Gideon. :321GFY

To the rest of you.

I have been through the affiliates area and found 8 pieces of our content in there which were never licensed. The affiliates area is open, taking sign ups and the content is available for download. So I have just sent this email to the support at smokincash as I'm sure that will not be able to take it away from all their affiliates nor want to.

I think that's fair. Not getting bitchy about them using it without a license, 2257 or anything else. I'm smiling about it as I must not get annoyed. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

no paul you claimed it was sold to an individual and that is your claim, HOWEVER it really depends on who paid you because the concept of "agent of" status

i have licienced software before too, on at least 3 occasions a person paying me with a corporate check put his personal name on the contract, i clearly told him his actions were EMBEZZELMENT unless he provided me with a letter signed by all the board of directors authorizing the liciencing of my software an individual when it was paid for by the company.

Look if i go in to best buy and purchase a copy of windows xp for my boss company, even if i screw up and put my name on the registration it still belongs to the company. If i as a person took that software and installed it on my home pc (i not my company would be guilty of copyright violation)



IF you were paid from the business account AND
if your countries laws are not ass backwards then your basically saying you CONSPIRED with the previous owner to Embezzle money from the smokincash company and YOU were the only who profited from it

if you are saying the contract laws in your country don't recognize the principle of "agent of" status then that another reason not to deal with you.

in the previous thread Pornonada offered to pay you 250 to relience the content to the smokincash CORPORATION (the affiliate program) which should have solved the problem forever no matter how many times the affiliate program was sold (because the corporation would own the licience and the corporation was getting transfered with each sale)

yet your response was

if you understand the concept of how a corporation and how it is a self contained legal entity capable of owning the licience. If you understand that the corporation can change ownership without revoking any of the rights of that corporation, why did you demand an additional payment from the new owner of the corporation.

Basic common sense the licience would never have been transfered because it is still OWNED BY THE CORPORATION.

again if he used it beyond the scope you can sue and would win. You can post the list document exactly what content is being used without a licience
not only would it solve the problem by notifying all affilates of the issue but it would PUBLICALLY PROVE that you are complying with pornada's request for the list.

right now it a he said /he said arguement between you and smokincash. your getting slammed because you keep it that way. Post the list of offending content publically and you PROVE you complied with pornada request. don't and everyone thinks this problem is your fault.

again you say/ he says arguement post the list of offending content and you prove you actually provided him the list. don't and people will it your fault.


well i am a coder and i licience my custom code all the time, bottom line is i would never be in this situation because IF someone wanted to buy my code for a company and they screwed up and put their personal name in the licience i would tell them about the error AND demand letter of authorization from the BoD for the action.

Most people who screwed up like the smokincash previous owner would quickly fix the mistake. if they didn't then i had proof they were being release from the default "agent of" status and i was not guilty of profiting from EMBEZZELMENT.

It was paid on a credit card and to be honest I do not know if it was a personal credit card or a corporate one. What do you think the odds are it being a corporate one. So are you saying if someone buys as a corporation yet pays with their own credit card the license goes to them and not the corp? The original license, was to a person, who broke the licenses by selling them.

Pornonada further broke them by having the content in the affiliates area and then asked me to rewrite the license so he could sell it. So a new license was needed.

As for what you do, that is your company. You run your company your way, can we do the same with ours?

Please stop going on and on about a corporation you're starting to look stupid. So for the LAST time. The original license was to a person not a company.

He offered to buy. After telling me to supply it for free. An offer is not a buy. He also said he would remove the content from the affiliates area, yet did not. So an offer not fulfilled and a promise not kept. Is that your idea of a binding contract? However we both agreed to waive the $250 for HIM to pay. Read on.

I also agreed to NOT sell a new license to him or his corporation. Because he was going to sell everything to a third buyer. I told him to send the new buyers to me for me to issue them with a new license. So again you got it wrong.


It's in the affiliates area, see screen grab, it was bought when the Paul Markham Content Store license never included affiliate use. What more proof do you need? The new buyers of the program have sent me a copy of the list Pornonada gave them that I gave him.


How many times do I have to tell you. The company that now runs Smokincash have no rights to any of our content in their site. Do you understand this? They have NO RIGHTS to any of our content on their site. You are wrong if you think content becomes legal if the buyer buys unlicensed content. So if I buy a program from you and then sell it against the terms of the license, does it become legal if I bought it?

Here is the list the new owners sent to me. I did not provide it to them, Pornonada provided it to them. I provided it to Pornonada.

009226
009239
009241
009247
009250
009268
009298
009400
009408
009275
009285
009289
009412
009417
009283
009407
009415
009422
009424
009426
009428
001679
001680
001681
001682
001683 in BBCS
001684
001685
001686
001693
001915 In BBCS
001922
001928 In BBCS
001965
009453
009455
009456


And if they used your license in a way you had not agreed and had not paid for you would be nice about it. Again that's the way you run your company. We run ours another way.

What has happened here is someone bought a license, then decided to use the content as they see fit without paying for the extra use. That's the same as someone sending traffic and the sponsor deciding they can do with that traffic as they please.

So far after me losing my temper because I was ignored and the new buyer thought I should fix the problems made by the original seller. I have tried to fix this situation. Yes I called someone who was knowingly using unlicensed content a pirate and a thief and I appologised to him personally. But he continued to keep it in the affiliates area. He sold the site with the program with our content in the affiliates area and I suppose both he and the new owners have distributed the content to affiliates.

If Pornonada claims he never put the site live it's strange that I could log in as a new affiliate and see our content there. But if he did not put it there the original buyer did. Making the original license null and void.

There is only one innocent victim here, us. Pornonada is responsible for buying a program with content he did not have a clue about. He is guilty of using it after he knew it was unlicensed, he never removed the content from the affiliates area.

The new owners have gone amazingly quiet over the whole thing and using unlicensed content in their site, also no 2257 info. Plus giving it to affiliates. They have ignored my email. So where do we go from here? DMCA, email the paymant processors CCBILL, or just swallow it?

But if DamageX had kept his mouth shut and not banned me I would not be annoyed at being shafted. It was him that raised the issue again. No wonder his nick is Damage. :thumbsup

Mark, the guys a fucking tool, ignore him.

Fuck me you are stupid. Not paying for stuff is OK where you come from but for the rest of the world it is something we do.

I dont expect you to know this because you are nothing but a two bit sig whore who has achieved nothing.

But THEY SHOULD KNOW WHAT CONTENT WAS Paul Markhams. Not just for this but also for 2257, to make sure their models are legal, to make sure they have the rights to use it etc etc

Exactly :2 cents:

Well stated.

Sorry but I get annoyed at idiots posting. Seems he's not that bright. You are right, I will ignore him.

Here's an interesting one and can someone pop over to Ask D and ask if he will shit list Smokincash for shaving a content producer and giving affiliates unlicensed content?

He likes to run a tight ship and shit list people for fucking others. Will he be consistent?

but the point i am making and you are ignoring is the company WOULD HAVE HAD THE RIGHT if you accepted the $250 to relicience FROM the individual TO corporation.

They would have rights if you respected the "agent of" status from the original buyer.

trying to misrepresent what i am saying into some thing else is one of the biggest problems i have with. It the reason i am would believe Pornada side of the story because
1. his offer to relicience to the corporation is public
2. you keep misrepresenting what i say to make believe i am just stupid.



ok this is a start but i hope you realize that this means nothing to smokincash affiliates, post thumbs that way there is a clear documented record of the content.

you would also have proof necessary when you go to court over the issue.
i send them the notice, certified mail, and i send in the lawyers and report them to CAAST. Stat damages is a wonderful thing. they work really effectively to get people to become complient.

The important part is to collect the documentation that proves you are being reasonable.

Your PUBLIC refusal to reliciene request (from an individual to is what is hurting you right now

Your refusal to acknowledge "agent of " status for the original purchase hurts you right now.


you are not an innocent victim as long as you ignore "agent of" status
you are not an innocent victim as long as you refuse to accept reliciencing offer by pornada.


you keep asking oppinion on what to do but when i tell you you counter with you run your business your way i will run it mine.

Right now pornada looks like the reasonable because he made the offer to relicience to the corporation.

so if i were you i would make yourself look reasonable again, so the courts would side with you.

I would recognize the "agent of" status of the original purchase.
once that issue is closed you can solve the problem with the out of scope use of your content.

A simple letter sent to by registered mail to the address specified on the domain.

Dear sir

The original licience purchased mistakenly by purchased _______________ as an individual when it should have been assigned to smokincash corp has been properly reassigned.

The licience is now assigned to your corporation. I have enclose said licience. You will notice that this licience grants you the following rights

1. state rights
2.
3.
4.
However it does not give you the following rights
1. giving to affiliates
...

Currently you are enjoying such rights without the proper licience to do so.

You have two choices
1. remove said offending uses of my content
2. upgrade your licience to one that grants you the right you are currently enjoying.

Failure to do either would constitute a wilful violation of my copyright and subject to statutory damges of $25,000 per instance (assuming you registered the copyright on all your images)

I have enclosed a bill for the for the upgrade in the licience you will notice i deducted the purchase price of the original set even though the licience agreement does support such a refund.

please respond within 15 days of recieving this letter or i will be force to take legal actions.


sincerly

Paul Markham.


If you had done that in the begining, and pornada had not responded or given bogus reasoning then you would have proof to call him on it. You would have proven that you went above and beyond in your dealing with him. you could have sued him for millions and won because you would have the preception of bending over backwards to get this issue resolved. And you would have gotten tons of good will (which would have translated into more people wanting to buy from you)

I herd Paul Markham was a crip

How many boards you banned from now? like 4?

Maybe Gideon has a lick of sense, if they don't pay for the affiliates license and the new license I should start serving DMCAs. I've done nothing wrong so far, other than losing my rag, so maybe I should think of serving notice on these guys.

They have content unlicensed, copyright infringement.

Gideon are you one of their affiliates? And yes you are a tool and stupid. It's not my job to go around looking after Smokincash affiliates, that's Smokincash's job or are you too stupid to realise that?

Of course a DMCA would not be a nice thing to do, but in the end if they don't contact me and pay what else am I meant to do?

But this is how much some think of piracy. So long as it's making them money it's fine. When I say them I mean normal affiliates. They are using unlicensed content, maybe without knowing maybe some are seeing this thread. So Smokincash know which videos are which, if not they need to go to the content stores and THEY need to sort it out.

They are doing nothing their affiliates are still using content they don't own. This is not my job to sort out their fuck ups.

bashbug I'm not banned from one single board I want to be a member of. Damages one is the last place I want to be. He thinks I should say sorry to people stealing my content. :321GFY

Your banned from netpond cause they were sick of your bullshit

No I was banned from Netpond because I rubbished their photographers board. My BS has been constant for years. :1orglaugh

The photographers board over there is lucky to get a post a day. Now was my BS right or wrong? :321GFY

You have to come up with far sharper bards than that.

Banned from ADX because I won't say sorry to people ripping me off.

And just in case you're wondering why I'm a prick when it comes to people ignoring licenses. It's because of all the people who don't ignore them. Maybe you like the first ones.

Have you thought about DCMA'ing all his affiliates hosts and upstream providers who are using the content, even if its on banners and stuff?

I wonder if you are alone as the only content provider who they dont have correct licences and docs for?

It's a bit heavy but a last resort. According to Pornonada, and I have the ICQ logs, he did not have a clue what was mine and what was not. So putting on my Sherlocke Holmes hat, I deduce he has more than one supplier that he does not have documents on. Because if he had documents on everyone BUT me knowing what was mine would be easy.

So Gideon is your braincell working? Do you think I should sort it out for all the others as well? :1orglaugh

Frankly this is a shit storm.

Let's give them till after the weekend and see what can be done.

Dont worry you're gonna be dead soon paul, what are you like 98?

Happy Easter :)

i have told you repeatedly that and the new license crap what is causing you all the problem.
re -read the sample letter i posted before you will notice i specifically avoid asking for the reup on the existing licience is the problem with your statement paul.

you have increased the cost of winning this case by 10 fold because your being an ass and demanding a liciencing fee which is at best suspect. The problem is you are absolutely right about the fees for using beyond the scope of the liciences.

but as long as your keep mudding the water with demands for fees that at best are the result in your conspiracy to embezzle funds from a corporation then you are going to just be wasting your time.

and you paul are an idiot, your not looking out for the affilates you are protecting your content and preventing it use. Think about if you showed me content that was offending
knowing that if smokincash chooses to remove it from the affilate section i would have to take down a gallery i may be getting traffic for i would ever use your offending content.

good luck with that, mud the water in a legal issue combining fees you have an iffy right to with fees you have an absolute right to and try and win that case in court.

If you like spending 10 times the cost in legal fees to get your money go for it.

when i mentioned reporting offenders to CAAST it was the stick of the carrot and stick offer i usually use becuase if they are screwing with my liciencing they are probably screwing with everyones liciences. informing the trade organization (which i am a member of) of a potential infringer is a pretty big stick.


if CAAST has to do an investigation on the company because of my complaint the fact that they refused to licience up even though i made consessions about potentially disputable charges (like your ignoring the "agent of" status and asking for the licience re-up) makes it easier for CAAST to make the arguement their actions are deliberate.

Without those concessions, that company can simply argue that it was a mistake and the only reason they didn't pay yet is because demanding fees you really were not entitled too.


Make the concession regarding the original fee, and go after them regarding out of scope use ONLY. That is the smartest move, but if you don't want to do waste your money, undermine your rep, and cost yourself tons of sales because people don't want to deal with a hard ass.

Are you saying that once content is used and put in the affiliates area it should stay in affiliate use, so as not to upset the affiliates?

If so I fully agree with you at last.

And all it needs is the sponsor to pay for the rights to have it in the affiliates area and keep it on the affiliates sites. 100% spot on at last mate. :thumbsup

I'm assuming you don't want it to remain illegal and with affiliates using pirated content.

Uhmm, i don't want to go into any details and further arguing as everything concerning me, the license issue with Paul Markham has been agreed on already some weeks ago.

The Terms are clear, the solution as well. Things just are a bit more complicated as i'am out of control as the program has been sold even before the license issue occured in public.

The new owners are aware of the terms and agreement as well, are in contact with Paul, and there is a timeline for Monday until everything must be fixed, paid for and/or being removed. That's it.

i have no problem with you going after them for using the content beyond the scope of the licience (giving it away to affilates)

what i have a problem is the claims you are making that are clearly arguementative (no "agent of" status so it was liciences to an individual and no to the request to resolve the issue by liciencing it to the corporation)

as i have said repeatly, you can act an ass, demand both what you are clearly entitled too (the affilate content being removed or paid for) AND what is at best suspect rights (re-up on the original licience- multiple times) or you can act like a professional and only deal only ask what you are really entitled.

Personally i would do the second, hell as i have already point out i would do one better than the second by offering to deduct the cost of the original licience from the cost of the required licience becuase it would create an insentive to choose to upgrade rather than remove the content

Who gives a fuck what you think???

Despite that fact that legally you may have been right, giving someone the opportunity to make things right is generally good.. even if you issued a DMCA you would have to list what content is yours to have them remove it. Give them a list and let it end...

It's all about how you deal with the situation... You can turn it into ridiculous drama on the boards that makes you look like a shit disturber, or you can be the bigger man, do your best to be co-operative, and maybe make a new customer. You chose the fuss. You always choose the fuss. Then you wonder why people avoid the fuss :P

Glad that it's all being handled tho... I just hate when stuff like this becomes board drama when all that was neccessary is a few emails.

In reality, by the orginal owner selling the site with the content, it didn't suddenly cost you any more money. It didn't cut into your profit margins for producing content. It's not like the original owner wanted to keep all the content and use it on another site aswell.

No actual expense or loss of money was incurred by you, during the transfer of this content to the new program owner. However people like you know you can abuse the intent of a licence and make more money, simply because you are greedy.

In short, you want to get paid twice, even though nothing about the program or the sites involved has changed. The only change was the owner of the site. That's like Microsoft requiring users to re-buy windows if you sell a computer with it as the OS.

You could simply offer a "reasonable" fee to the new owners to cover any costs for records updates ect..ect.. However instead guys like you are greedy and want to be paid twice for nothing.

Remind me to never do business with you..on second thought I damn sure wont need anyone to remind me..

little update, got a message from the new owners that they finally made an agreement with Paul that they can continue using it in the affilate area as well for some additionally costs which have been paid already by them yesterday.

After about 6 Drama Threads, endless posts, endless attempts to fix things, endless discussions, endless arguing and daily varying prices this issue has been fixed finally and the story for me and the new owners should be finally closed (hope so at least, lol)...

Thx to everybody who supported me and the new owners and saw that we are not intentionally pirates or thiefs, but got into the whole situation more by accident and unexperience as program owners as we bought everything like it was on the whole program.

We learned our lesson for sure and it's just obvious that we will check in future whatever we buy or sell much better.

Ok, as said already, case closed for us!

Paul you are a broke has been. You make a fool of yourself over and over again with every post you make. You sold out to the tube sites jusat to make a buck it's time for you to give up the internet .:2 cents::1orglaugh

I'm all for it being sorted by a few emails. Unfortunately it took a lot of drama to get the people using our content against the terms and conditions of the license to agree to abide by the terms and conditions of the license.

If the original buyer had never sold the content and left it to us to transfer it would of been done and dusted a long time ago. If Pornonada had not told me to resupply, without charges, what he and the original buy had lost and just removed what he did not own it would never have got this far.

We got shaved and everyone supports the shaver. Yes using content beyond the terms of the license is shaving. The content was given to affiliates against the terms of the license, everyone but us was earning from this. The response I got was, they will remove it from the affiliates area. So all the affiliates who are using it can carry on using it and sending them traffic and money with the unlicensed content????????

The only thing that brought them to agree to pay for it was the threat of DMCAs landing on their affiliates inbox.

Yes a few emails is the preferred method, sadly none of the people who were using unlicensed content would respond to emails or ICQ chats. Drama is all that was left.

Nice to see how some flame people who are getting robbed.

crockett would you not get dramatic if someone was shaving you like we were being shaved, or maybe this is the way you do business. No we did not want to be paid twice we want to be paid once for what is owed to us.

Maybe you run your business that way, we do not run ours that way.

pornonada you were the guy who brought this to the boards, I never knew about it until the thread on Ask D popped up on Board Tracker, you're the guy who thought I should resupply, for free content, lost in the transfer. Don't complain when the shit hits the fan.

As you say it's done and over. The new owners have agreed to pay $250 for the normal license and $850 for the continued license of the affiliates area content. The same charges we make to others.