50 people judging

apparently they're "in love" and not "insane" .... so apparently is totally OK.

i dont know whats more shocking: your last post above or that you have been in the adult community for six years.

you have truly frightened me. :Oh crap

They put the T in taboo

Good lord,wtf is the matter with people :Oh crap

That's actually way off, provided you're distinguishing between incest and sex with a minor. I understand you're trying to make a point, but a point's generally made a lot more effectively if you're not talking out of your ass. :winkwink:

50% might be closer to real the number of countries that make it illegal to have incestuous relations between consensual, related, adults.

Napoleon abolished most incest law in nations he administered over 200 years ago. It's also legal in Japan. In Sweden, it's permissible with a permit. Legal in Israel, too.

I'd also go out on a limb and say that, sooner or later, it'll be legal in the U.S., as well. That's a view that Jeff Jacoby, of the Boston Globe, also shares:

"Your reaction to the prospect of lawful incest may be "Ugh, gross." But personal repugnance is no replacement for moral standards. For more than 3,000 years, a code of conduct stretching back to Sinai has kept incest unconditionally beyond the pale. If sexual morality is jettisoned as a legitimate basis for legislation, personal opinion and cultural fashion are all that will remain."

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/edi...be_on_its_way/

believe it or not, "adult online" did not start with the creation of GFY

first, let me say i think you are one of the most well spoken and intelligent people on this board, so i'm not attacking your position or your views or opinions.. and really have no interest in jousting while you cut and paste or post links and demand i read them to "educate myself", but rather want to take this opportunity to clarify my position.

the issue has absolutely nothing to do with "morality" or "personal repugnance" - a father does not sexually molest his child because of the psychological damage it causes, the pain it causes, the life long trauma it causes. because it was once "acceptable" to varying degrees at different points in history or in different areas of the world, does not change the harm it causes. a lot of things have been "acceptable" and we could go on for the next 3 weeks making uber retarded lists of "what was once acceptable" and that has nothing to do with the emotional trauma, the hurt, the pain, the betrayal and the damage done to a child as the result of being sexualized or raped by a parent.

secondly, this whole conversation about "right" and "wrong" assumes that two emotionally healthy people can have such a relationship. and some seem to be more than willing to further assume that just because two people are together doing something so abhorrent, as long as they proclaim it to be "love" then its totally ok, totally normal and a totally healthy relationship for all involved. no psychologist on the face of the earth is going to agree with that. no psychologist is going to say "well, to be honest, i can't see how a father having children with his daughter while raising her children from another marriage, is going to cause any harm to them, to the existing children or to the new children"

i personally don't care what anyone does behind closed doors. but this isn't about what two people are doing. this is about what two people are doing to 3 and probably more children.

As fucked up and weird as it is, they're both adults, and I don't see why they can't fuck each other if they want to. Yes it's fucked up, but they're both consenting adults, it's not like he's raped his teenage daughter or something. I think faggotry is pretty fucked up, and gays and lesbians can marry and fuck all they want, so why exactly should this be any different? All it is, is the currently accepted norm in society to stand against it.


http://static.flickr.com/24/64237711_28427c71d9_m.jpg
innbreeeeeeeeeeeeeders!

Yeah... I'll give you that it's a fucked up situation... and one that will, taken down the slippery slope (3 or 4 generations later, at least), ultimately result in birth defects and other genetic mutations, all-the-while potentially causing mental states and processes to form in the children that are rejected by society...

But maybe that becomes a child welfare issue. I don't believe there's any other precedent for limiting sexual relationships based physical or psychological travesties that may result in the offspring of said relationship. Maybe I'm wrong there, but I can't think of one off the cuff.

If any party involved is a minor - well, then it's a cut-and-dry case of statutory rape. A father doing it to his under-aged son/daughter? Give him the maximum sentence, for sure.

But if they're both adults?

As fucked up as it may be (hell, to even begin to even give real thought to this situation, I have to put out of my mind that I have sisters or a mother), I don't think i have the right to tell another adult where they can or cannot stick their private parts provided all parties involved are consensual.

So, that's what I personally think... even though I was, originally, just calling out your 99.9% statement, since the 'math guy' in me howled... :1orglaugh

Still, I see your point. Life for children that result could (and probably would) suck a bit. I just think that it should, legally, be treated as a separate matter than the relationship of the parents.

However, that said "legally" does not equal "socially"... over beers, I'd have absolutely no problem telling a father that's fucking his adult daughter that he's got some real issues - and maybe recommending a good shrink in the process. 'Cause (to get a bit crass for a moment) in our society, we might let the mentally retarded fuck... but, imho, if you think it's kosher and healthy to have sex with your daughter, you gotta be the poster-boy for the mentally retarded.

wtf is "adult online"? please point to when i mentioned that term or mentioned anything about the creation of gfy.

regarding the last sentence.. thats sort of my point. we just don't call people "crazy" anymore. its just bizarre to me to see people romanticize such profoundly unhealthy behaviors... particularly when there is 4 children involved.

if there were no kids involved, i would never think twice about it. they're certainly not the first father/daughter incest couple to make the news. but the kids IS my point. that is where everyone's little red flags should be going up right now. not what they are doing, so much as that they are doing it with existing children in the house AND working on their 3 child of this relationship. if nothing about this situation made them say "well, maybe we shouldn't be having kids" i can't imagine how they parent.

and lets not forget that they are running out and seeking publicity and trying to get people to understand. any sane and reasonable person would realize thats not going to happen.

there is just so many reasons to call this into question that it boggles the mind - its even more bizarre when people are congratulating them on their "happiness" and "love"

fuzzylogic? the irony of that name is that it implies the presence of logic. but then again, maybe the name itself was meant to be ironic.

"2002" is the join date. not my first days in adult... i.e. i've been around much longer... so maybe you should be much more distressed at my remarks... and "adult online"? really? you have no clue what that means?

i did not realize this is your main point and argument.

Yuckies:(:(:(

its all just pixels :)

erm ... :helpme

Obviously some of you would have been as horrified and outraged as those of us who were here back in the first year or so of GFY, but back then someone posted a link (along with suitable outrage) to an incest forum where people (presumably actual parents) were discussing such things as the best methods to groom their kids for joining in having sex with either or both parents. I believe a few GFY'rs joined that board in order to flame them but were all probably insta-banned.

I have no idea if that board still exists, but the things they were discussing on it were pretty far out in the twilight zone. There is definitely a sizeable sub-culture out there that is into incest. I can understand it in the case where a brother and sister are separated at a young age and then they meet by chance 15 or 20 years later and fall in love having no idea they are related, but for an otherwise normal married couple to have kids and then purposfully groom them for incestual sex?...

Pleasurepays would have burst a capillary in his head if he'd been around for that thread.

really? i'm that emotional and irrational? anyone can agree what you mentioned is horrible... but its hardly something i get emotional about. i don't have kids and don't want kids. there is a massive difference between making fun of peoples reasoning, arguments, rationalizations and weak arguments to justify horrible behavior and actually caring about the subject.

Again you completely utterly fail to see the humor in what I post. Why is that? I must not use enough smiley's, but in this case I thought it was obvious.

I was basing that comment mainly on this post of yours... Yes, what was I thinking? :D

Jeez man, lighten up. I've seen you seemingly "blow a gasket" many times in your posts. You're quick to sling the namecalling at times, and at times even unprovoked. Emotional... yes, I'd say at times it does seem like you are. Definitely passionate about whatever you're arguing about.

But irrational? I don't think I've implied that here at all. Several on this board "Blew a capillary" over the existance of the forum that I mentioned was posted. It didn't exactly sit well with me either.

i think i perceived to be much more serious than i am. i am extremely dry and cynical. if you think reading what i type is weird, imagine me saying it with a straight face and monotone voice.

[place where i should have remembered to inserted two smiley faces to reinforce those points]

I think sometimes you offset the sense you're trying to put forth with the name-calling. The two don't offen go together well, and one can look like they are pounding keys and spitting at their monitor unless an arsenal of smiley's are included... which sometimes looks weak. :D (<--but not in this case)

But I still say you'd have, albeit virtually, blown a head gasket had you been around for that aforementioned posting. And I wouldn't have blamed you at all if you had.

i think thats something that younger guys or anyone that started in the last 5-6 years or so would never understand... how totally pervasive CP was in the beginning. people love to grumble about laws, government, obscenity etc.. but there was certainly a time when CP was disturbingly common and usually out in the open.

Interesting point, and although you're right, I must clarify that I saw no "CP" on that forum. What caused the outrage was mainly their very existance, and the fact that it was a large group of people basically talking about incest, their love of incest, and having sex with their kids, family members etc.

I admit I didn't look around too much, but what threads of theirs I did click on I saw no CP posted, nor any talk of anyone getting their kids into porn. It wasn't about porn, it was about incest.

No less disturbing though.

ewWWWwWWWwwWW!!!

this is totally sick!

i personally don't get creeped out by it. i think its unhealthy and wrong and usually see people doing that stuff as trying to rationalize their own behaviors. (note.. i was never molested) - people who are victims of sexual abuse at a young age usually become attracted to similar acts as a defense mechanism.

this is an interesting subject with me... and one i have actually spent a great deal of time pondering in recent months.

i don't really feel outrage at things like people do. in fact, i had a long, serious talk with myself on that very issue when i created medical adoptions[.]com and the e-mails started flowing in from adoption agencies, adoptees, adopting parents etc. expressing disgust and demanding the site be taken offline because it was offensive.

its hard to put the outrage into perspective. it was very surreal. everyone was deeply offended and i was forced to ask myself how i felt about that and of course, to ask the one logical question "am i hurting people or causing them pain"

as i started clicking through the referral links, reading forums, reading emails etc, i began to realize how the "outrage" is not something someone does to you, but something you feel when some event or whatever trigger there might be, drags those issues you have back to the surface. but those things we feel anger towards, usually aren't the problem, that anger and outrage is most often a symptom. i think there is a difference between a reasonable reaction and unreasonable degree of "outrage" however.. by that i mean there is a difference between being upset that a soldier throws a puppy off a cliff and thinking "that was horrible and a little upsetting" and feeling enough rage that you want to see him killed.

i think it would be a little disturbing to see a forum where people are discussing such a thing as you mentioned. i wouldn't be surprised. actually, i am sure there probably are quite a few places right now discussing the same thing or chat rooms etc. for the most part, i see it as disturbed people doing disturbing things. i don't really care enough about changing the world to care or crusade against something to feel any strong reaction. i don't feel any particular sense of satisfaction or purpose in knowing i made a difference (or believing i did). for the most part, i just see it as people with issues, grouping together to cope with, understand, rationalize and defend behaviors, urges, feelings and things they've done/do so they can make sense of their own lives and struggle through another day.

thankfully, i see i meet only a few of the diagnostic criteria for sociopath.