Go to 4:20 of this video, and watch clearly the push off.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=xPCm8OuuNYY



and then go watch and be amazed at these highlights, with another 5-8 years left.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vSL0-SQrzPo&feature=related

Thats not shit compared to Jordan's 60+ IN FUCKIN BOSTON when celtics were THE team and the garden was the absolute toughest place to play in the country.

Can't forget the garden and all those times he lit up the knicks also when they were a badass team.

Shaq carried Kobe to the title... Kobe can't do shit without a big man to shoulder the weight of the team. Gasol and the young guy steppin up this year are a pair of all star front court players and yet Kobe won't do shit until they are BOTH healthy.

Lets not forget that not only did Jordan not have a proper supporting cast BUT he also had to go up against SHOWTIME! and those badass celtics and pistons teams just to make it through the east. The pistons were the roadblock for Jordan for what like 4 years before the title run?

Shaq was the man for those lakers championships, Kobe was a sidekick. Shaq left the lakers just to win another title... even being old and warn down he's putting the SUNS into the title picture and we all know the suns will only go as far as the diesel can pull them even though the suns have a pair of All-NBA type players. Shaq is fat and lazy and can't hit a free throw to save his life but he's still dominant when he wants to be.

Taking the last shot between Kobe and Jordan is a no brainer. I think there's probably a few players I'd rather have taking that final shot other than Jordan though ;) Hell Robert Horry has made more BIG TIME shots than probably jordan and kobe combined. Miller made a 3, steal and another 3 for the greatest last what like 5 seconds of all time?

The refs were not going to call a foul on anyone at that stage. Malone or Stockton could have done the same thing.

Besides, just how much he pushed off Byron we will never know. Since Byron never threw a fit about it, I think we can assume that it was his momemntum from running that carried him forward moreso than Jordan's push.

Just watch all the angles:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-WULyz1-OQc

You can't tell me that Jordan's one arm pushed him 8 to 10 feet like that. Byron simply didn't have the ability to stop on a dime, and then he slipped.

i think they call him Big Shot Bob....

we have Big Balls Bob too!

My :2 cents: before I say who I would favour.

The careers of Kobe and MJ are very similar however how and when their championships were won are very different. Almost opposites.

Kobe: enters league, has shaq and wins titles then struggles with lack of supporting cast for a few years.

MJ: enters league, struggles for years without supporting cast then wins titles.

In my opinion Kobe is now at the level Jordan was at when MJ won his championships. Kobe now recognizes he can't do it himself, embraces the team he has, distributes the ball, gets a couple players that can play, picks his spots to take over a game and hence....imo..... will win his first MVP.

I find it very interesting that the common denominator in this evaluation of both MJ and Kobe finally understanding their role and as a result, the team succeeding, is Phil Jackson.

I for the longest time felt Phil was simply a benefactor of stacked teams. Taking a step back now, I would suggest he is the main reason why perhaps the two greatest NBA players of all time ( certainly athletically if not overall ) were able to take the next step in their amazing careers.


Now..... as far as who I would want to take last shot?

I would still have to go with MJ and I am not even sure that anyone will ever be able to compare in this regard. He lived for those moments. Kobe can finish a game without question and he is very clutch, but MJ just had that something.....

Both are amazing however because opponents and fans alike know they are goign to have the ball in the last seconds and that no matter what, chances are the outcome is a forgone conclusion.

Good post by the way!

Good, but Kobe's videos are not filled with HOLY SHIT moments like the Jordan highlight reels are.

Oh Sorry,

Then go ahead and click on this url and you could see all the results for Kobe's last second shots.


https://youtube.com/results?search_qu...s&search_type=

Kobe has 0 defense.
Kobe has never been enough of a leader to gel his team.
Kobe needed Shaq to get any hardware.
Defense in the NBA is a joke since many gay rule changes.
Jordan had to deal with POWERHOUSE teams with real defenses.
Jordan had much better court smarts and knowledge of the game.

and the bottem line is Jordan invented EVERY part of KOBES game.

Oh yeah...KOBE is not even the best player in the League now.

I would take Tim Duncan, Lebron, or Dirk any day over KOBE.

Jordan for sure! :thumbsup

During the regular season I think I'd rather have Dirk but come playoff time no thanks! Kinda like the shooter that was on the Kings and is now on the hornets... one of the best shooters in the league during the regular season but just doesn't step up in the playoffs. I couldn't ever imagine a duncan led team getting knocked out in the first round but a #8 seed no less.

hehehe, u can't be taking Dirk over Kobe!
TD and Lebron - some can argue on that, but not Dirk!

What he said

Dude.... so on point. :thumbsup

You got to be the biggest Kobe Hater in the world.

Stats prove otherwise.. He has great defense,
He did not need shaq to win. Look at what he's doing now.

Kobe had a higher point average then Jordan ever did.

Kobe is and will be known as the best NBA BasketBall Player when he is done. Period!

Kobe will be the MVP this year. Period!

Dirk? Duncan? You serious?

You must not know much about basketball, your just trying to put down the best player in the league.

Any professional writer will tell you Kobe is the best player in the game hands down the past 4 years.

No defence? lol he's first team D every year.

And dont forget who Jordan had playing with him... lets see, some guy that didn't ever need the ball in his hands but was an amazing defender and just so happened to average 18 rebounds a game "Rodman". Pippen who was the most underrated small forward to ever play the game. He could do everything. Guards, BJ Armstrong, Ron Harper, Kerr, Paxson. They also had some pretty decent forwards with Kukoc, Horace Grant. And a whole crop of decent big men Cartwright, Perdue, Parish, Wennington, willians...

My point is that Jordan had one hell of a lineup around him that Kobe hasn't had until now. And now they are all hurt. They will make a run this year but expect the Lake show be dominating the league the next 4-5 years with all the young talent they have.

Jordan was one hell of a player and I wont deny that. But the Kobe legacy is just begining and they numbers and he has already put up are amazing and he has already broken a number of Jordan records.

As much as we could go back and forth about these two the only way you can ever compare them is after Kobe retires which is a long ways away. By then I expect him to break almost all of Jordans records.

But everyone loves shoes.

Yes, the NBA is easier now than ever. There are no dominant centers or forwards anymore.

The Western conference is so overrated.....

Serously, I have never seen anyone bring a team back single handed like Kobe can. I have seen him run down and smack 8 straght 3's in a row in the 4th to bring his team back from 25 in the 4th all by himself. What he can do is simply amazing....

Also in your search you spelled Koby instead of Kobe

Kobe is also the only player in the NBA that I have ever seen who over the past 4 years goes to other teams arenas and works their team so bad that the other teams fans are chearing MVP for him....

All this talk about Kobe just pissed me off, and I bought two tickets right behind the Laker Bench for tonights game.


Im going to let him know that there are a lot of Kobe Haters on GFY so if you watch the game, pay attention, im going to have him give you one of these...

:321GFY

J o r d a n

You cant compare their stats, its not fair. The game is easier today, that's a fact. When Jordan played it was a power game. Today its a finesse game. You don't have the dominance inside and the physical play that we saw in Jordan's era in today's game. Now days running and jumping is all you need to get into the league. Very few players today are students of the game or even know how to play for that matter. The rules have been changed for this reason, you can no longer guard the paint and you can no longer check perimeter players. You see big men stepping in to take the charge more often than going for the block because of these rules. Now days instead of playing defense guys just flop and flail their arms because that's what the rules allow them to do. So of course a guy like Kobe will have a higher scoring percentage, the game has been tailored for guards. The NBA realized that higher scoring made the game more fun to watch, that's why you've seen the transition.

It's impossible to compare people from different era's and say one is better. In my opinion Kobe has the advantage to be better because the way the game is played today. With that said I don't think he's played well enough to be in the same conversation with Jordan. Yes they are very similar talents, same body, same kind of athleticism, similar game. But lets keep it real, when Jordan came into his own it was against some of the greatest of all time. Kobe has every advantage in today's game and he's still trying to figure it out. IMO he has to win this year and the next 3-5 to be in the conversation.

Whhhaaaattt????

Phoenix, Dallas, Golden State, Houston, Lakers, San Antonio (who i hate but they still count),

The east has Boston, Detroit, Cleveland, Washington, Orlando is doing good but who cares. The only teams that the east can really stand on are boston and Detroit.


Overrated......I think not.

That was sarcasm.

Lol
 

I would take kobe to shoot an airball anyday over anyone else
https://youtube.com/watch?v=m4zRSadt_A4

Obviously it was sarcasm. The most important factor being overlooked in this argument is the game itself. It is played completely different today than in was when Jordan played.

When the greats of Jordan's era all retired the NBA started to struggle. The public lost interest and the players coming into the league weren't as polished. So the NBA had to figure out a way to market the new crop of players and keep the tag of the best basketball league in the world. So they changed the rules and once that happened we started to see the running game take off. Then scoring increased and the NBA marketed its players as more athletic, quicker, better, blah blah blah.. You get the point.

This is why I don't think you can compare eras. The game is completely different, from the way its played, to the rules, to the players. Could the elite of this era have competed with Jordan and company, probably. But we'll never know what the greats of Jordan's era would have done in today's game.

Jordan tapped his ass. Hardly a push and that's the way the game used to be - rough.

The game has changed. It's a softer sport now than it used to be and you also have a generation of guys who grew up watching Jordan who try to be Jordanesque rather than focusing on the basics. So we get a lot of amazing dunks nowadays but FG% is way down. It's why guys like Steve Nash who stick to the fundamentals, make plays, ultimately garner MVP status.
.

I hate to burst your bubble, but jordan avg 30pts. per game will kobe is at 24. Jordan leads kobe in EVERY statistical category, and by the way he has more rings :pimp

A lot of people here are taking too much away from Kobe because he's being compared to Jordan. Kobe is a phenom. He's the next best guard and comparable to Jordan in many ways. He's very colorful and a brilliant athlete. He's done things that are awe inspiring in the same way Jordan did. Part of the difference I see is that Jordan didn't come off trying to be a flashy. It just turned out that to put the ball in the basket he had to contort his body is interesting ways sometimes. He was the guy to make the clutch shots. Sometimes when I watch Kobe, and I feel like he's forcing it.

If we're looking at pure numbers and stats Kobe may surpass Jordan on SOME measures, but not most (like 81 points versus Jordan's 63 - still, neither broke Wilt's record, 3-point shot average), but you have to consider how the game has changed, the type of players Jordan faced (Magic, Larry), and the fact that Jordan wasn't deliberately trying to rack up points for himself all the time. He was just trying to win. Jordan is much more fluid than Kobe or any other player to ever play the game.

There are one-on-one moments between Jordan and Kobe in the 97-98 season and the all-star game that makes me wish they shared more court time against each other. https://youtube.com/watch?v=BC5sW1Xnj3g&feature=related

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

PS Here's the MVP!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...chris.paul.jpg

The most points Michael Jordan has average is 35.0 points per game.

87-88 35.0

The most Kobe has averaged is, 35.4

2004-2005 season

So get your facts straight.

You want to talk about throwing an airball,

Do you think Kobe would ever do anything like this?


https://youtube.com/watch?v=5_r4AGX3Qmo


I don't think so... You guys might have an arguement now, but wait 5 years, and none of you will ever doubt that Kobe will be the best ever known to have played in the NBA.

Are you kidding me?

The scores in those game from the late 80's to early 90's used to be in the hundreds every time?

130-125 140-120

etc etc

Where was the defense back then?

if the lakers can win just 1 more championship, i'll go kobe over jordan.

If there were no Jordan there would be no Kobe and so on and so forth! They're both brilliant!

Jordan is kobe's dad??

Agreed. Totally different type of game.

How many times has Jordan done that? It was the all-star game, everybody was just having fun. He was also past his prime at about 40 years old.

I don't think anybody can dispute that Jordan has more hops than Kobe.

I don't disagree that Kobe is one the best ever.

Notice how all the people picking Kobe live in LA/Ca

That's the difference. Jordan had way more finesse.

Have any of u idiots noticed that kobe hasent passed the first round in 4 years . 4 FUCKIN YEARS

Today's NBA game is built on potential. Kobe does posses the natural ability that Jordan had but to make the comparison Kobe needs to win. Its just that simple. Being the greatest of all time isn't based on what the guy is capable of doing its based on what he does. And imo Kobe hasn't done anything.

which one?
 

easy answer for the OP. michael jordan.

the (false) notion of kobe bryant being a clutch player is mostly myth. for example, it has been proven that carmelo anthony is MUCH more clutch when it came down to game winning shots.

kobe bryant's career has been smoke and mirrors, propelled along by riding the coattails of the most influential (on the game itself) professional basketball player since michael jordan: shaquille o'neal.

C'mon now! Kobe hands down. need more proof?

http://forums.weboverdrive.com/image...f/kobewife.jpg
http://forums.weboverdrive.com/image.../kobewife2.jpg

or

http://forums.weboverdrive.com/images/stuff/mjwife.jpg

no contest.

This is the best statement thus far.

the only way you can ever compare them is after Kobe retires which is a long ways away

-
i think it will be hard for Kobe to match what MJ achieved, doable for him but it would be hard.

we should put this thread on a short term time capsule say 10 years?

:2 cents:

kinda like all the people who hate him don't?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/5/777...76b731.jpg?v=0

MJ is so good that he hasnt played in ever and his Jersey & Shoes still sale WAY more than Kobe. Kobe hasnt done shit since Shaq left and he will prove me right in the playoffs this year.

Not even debatable. Jordan = God of basketball

Kobe = Jordan's bitch

who cares.... bump