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SmokeyTheBear 06-12-2008 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14311637)
its funny that those of you who scream the loudest for the rights of "those who wish to harm us" are the very reasons why they want to harm us.
that makes no sense :2 cents: think about it for 2 seconds, they are mad we are defending their rights as humans ?

if that were really true they would waive all their rights and agree to be detained just to piss us off wouldnt they ?

SmokeyTheBear 06-12-2008 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14311990)
why do you all hate america. why do you pander to terrorists who would like nothing more than to see you and i killed..
why do you put words in people's mouths they never said.

#1 nobody mentioned hating america, and if you really wanted the truth , start by asking.

Do i hate america ? NO , so you are wrong

#2 i have never heard one of the gitmo detaineed say they would like nothing more than to kill me. prove me wrong and post their words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14311990)
we are not rounding up innocent people for the fuck if it..
so you think everyone is guilty until proven innocent ? so you are a terrorist if someone says you are ? What exactly do you have against them being tried in a real court ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14311990)
there is a reason why they are detained..
thats what we are trying to figure out , if there is a reason , most of the time when you are being held in prison they tell everyone what they did .
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14311990)
this is a war they are the enemy.
who decides who is the enemy ?

robfantasy 06-12-2008 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 14311995)
that makes no sense :2 cents: think about it for 2 seconds, they are mad we are defending their rights as humans ?

if that were really true they would waive all their rights and agree to be detained just to piss us off wouldnt they ?
smokey someone who would conceive stapping a bomb to themselves and blowing up a crowd of people for 72 virgins isnt a rational thinker.

robfantasy 06-12-2008 09:29 PM
quote......... from bin laden..


We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest ... You separate religion from your policies, ... You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions ... You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants ... You are a nation that permits acts of immorality ... You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. ... You use women to serve passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your profit margins.

robfantasy 06-12-2008 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 14312009)
why do you put words in people's mouths they never said.

#1 nobody mentioned hating america, and if you really wanted the truth , start by asking.

Do i hate america ? NO , so you are wrong

#2 i have never heard one of the gitmo detaineed say they would like nothing more than to kill me. prove me wrong and post their words.


so you think everyone is guilty until proven innocent ? so you are a terrorist if someone says you are ? What exactly do you have against them being tried in a real court ?




thats what we are trying to figure out , if there is a reason , most of the time when you are being held in prison they tell everyone what they did .


who decides who is the enemy ?

these are rights that come with being an american citizen. we arent talking about american citizens here we are talking about foreign combatants in a war.. this is about a matter of national security...

why would you want to put our nation at risk ??

i believe in torture, renditions or any means necessary to protect our country.

bloggingseo 06-12-2008 09:45 PM
There isn't enough time in life to worry 24/7 about terrorists. IF you are going to die, you are going to die. Worrying about when or where is just going to make your life a lot less enjoyable.

The Duck 06-12-2008 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 14311366)
You do know the guy in your avatar would have supported the desenting opinion, right?
That is a lie.

SmokeyTheBear 06-12-2008 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312019)
smokey someone who would conceive stapping a bomb to themselves and blowing up a crowd of people for 72 virgins isnt a rational thinker.
none of those people are in gitmo nor do they have anything to do with this ruling

SmokeyTheBear 06-12-2008 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312032)
quote......... from bin laden..


We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest ... You separate religion from your policies, ... You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions ... You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants ... You are a nation that permits acts of immorality ... You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. ... You use women to serve passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your profit margins.
I hate to break it to you but we dont have bin laden in gitmo :)

robfantasy 06-12-2008 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 14312073)
I hate to break it to you but we dont have bin laden in gitmo :)
smokey i was refering to islamic ideology

and as for gitmo.. its full of detainees who share the same ideology..

i doubt they are seeking release so they can register and vote in the US 2008 Election

:)

robfantasy 06-12-2008 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggingseo (Post 14312060)
There isn't enough time in life to worry 24/7 about terrorists. IF you are going to die, you are going to die. Worrying about when or where is just going to make your life a lot less enjoyable.
same with wearing a seatbelt, who has time for that shit

pocketkangaroo 06-12-2008 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14311990)
they dont like the western way of life.. the freedoms we enjoy.. the abundance.. the indulgence.... pornographers would be the first to have their throat slit in their view.

what is so hard to understand about this..

dont you know anything about radical islamic ideology??

do you know the reason why they believe islam should dominate the world?? do you know the meaning of jihad..

do you understand that they have no regard for human rights let alone human life and would kill you the day they were let out of prison after you fought to get them out...

why do you all hate america. why do you pander to terrorists who would like nothing more than to see you and i killed.

we are not rounding up innocent people for the fuck if it.. there is a reason why they are detained.. this is a war they are the enemy.

this ruling is a disgrace and slap in the face to america. it sickens me.
They hate us because we fuck with their land, governments, and people. Go all the way back to when we overthrew a democratic government over there and put the Shah of Iran in place. How we have bombed the living shit out of them for decades, built bases, overthrown governments. Blindly supported Israel at every turn.

And radical Islamists aren't much different than radical Christians. The biggest difference is that we control our fucking crazies while they can't. Ann Coulter is the one that said we should topple the Middle East and convert them all to Christianity. Not much different than what Bin Laden says.

So yes, they have a lot of fucked up people there. We have a lot of fucked up people here. They hate us because we fuck with their country. Read some history books. This goes much deeper than what Rush Limbaugh told you to believe yesterday.

robfantasy 06-12-2008 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 14312081)
They hate us because we fuck with their land, governments, and people. Go all the way back to when we overthrew a democratic government over there and put the Shah of Iran in place. How we have bombed the living shit out of them for decades, built bases, overthrown governments. Blindly supported Israel at every turn.

And radical Islamists aren't much different than radical Christians. The biggest difference is that we control our fucking crazies while they can't. Ann Coulter is the one that said we should topple the Middle East and convert them all to Christianity. Not much different than what Bin Laden says.

So yes, they have a lot of fucked up people there. We have a lot of fucked up people here. They hate us because we fuck with their country. Read some history books. This goes much deeper than what Rush Limbaugh told you to believe yesterday.
so the bin laden text i just posted was written by george bush to keep me afraid? right?

pocketkangaroo 06-12-2008 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kandah (Post 14312069)
That is a lie.
From the 2007 GOP Values Voter Presidential Debate on September 17, 2007:

Q: Will you nominate only judges who are demonstrably faithful to the judicial role of following only the text of the Constitution, and who not only refuse to legislate from the bench, but are committed to reversing prior court decision where activist judges strayed from the judicial role and legislated from the bench?

Ron Paul: Yes

SmokeyTheBear 06-12-2008 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312039)
these are rights that come with being an american citizen. we arent talking about american citizens here we are talking about foreign combatants in a war.. this is about a matter of national security...
so people who arent americans don't have any rights and don't deserve rights..? umm i dont think the rest of america agrees with you.

Besides i have seen no evidence they are even combatants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312039)
why would you want to put our nation at risk ??
what risk ? i want them to be tried before a court and punished if they did something illegal. where is the risk in that ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312039)
i believe in torture
sure torture away , once they have been found guilty and we decide that is their punishment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312039)
any means necessary to protect our country.
so if the fbi had info that a blonde guy was a threat to our country you would agree with ANY means to protect our country including killing every blonde person on earth ?

so what you really meant to say is you dont agree with "any means"

there is no red line thats why we have/need courts.

pocketkangaroo 06-12-2008 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312090)
so the bin laden text i just posted was written by george bush to keep me afraid? right?
Not at all. It is a statement that tells Americans to reject gambling, sex, homosexuality, and drugs. To not use women as sex symbols. To not seperate religion from political beliefs. I can find similar statements in the writings of just about every single evangelical leader in this country today. I can also find it in the writings of many conservative politicians in this country.

Bin Laden is a fucking nutcase, but he doesn't want to blow us up because we gamble. He hates us for our presence in Saudi Arabia. Our support for Israel. Our meddling in the business of the Mujahideen.

Seriously, pick up a book on the guy. Learn why he hates us.

SmokeyTheBear 06-12-2008 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312078)
smokey i was refering to islamic ideology
i wasnt aware bin laden was their leader, oh yah he isn't

would you think it fair other countries kidnap and torture americans because of things pat robertson says because he is christian and most americans are christian ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312078)
and as for gitmo.. its full of detainees who share the same ideology..
so you must know each of them or have spoken to each of them personally , or are you just assuming so. ? Thats what i thought. So infact if you throw anyone in gitmo right now you would just naturally assume thery love bin laden and agree with everything he says. So if iran kidnapped you we should assume you agree with everything pat robertson says and should let them torture you ?

tony286 06-12-2008 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 14312081)
They hate us because we fuck with their land, governments, and people. Go all the way back to when we overthrew a democratic government over there and put the Shah of Iran in place. How we have bombed the living shit out of them for decades, built bases, overthrown governments. Blindly supported Israel at every turn.

And radical Islamists aren't much different than radical Christians. The biggest difference is that we control our fucking crazies while they can't. Ann Coulter is the one that said we should topple the Middle East and convert them all to Christianity. Not much different than what Bin Laden says.

So yes, they have a lot of fucked up people there. We have a lot of fucked up people here. They hate us because we fuck with their country. Read some history books. This goes much deeper than what Rush Limbaugh told you to believe yesterday.
Well written, people dont like looking at themselves its easier to believe bullshit like they hate us for our freedoms.

TheDoc 06-12-2008 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312039)
these are rights that come with being an american citizen. we arent talking about american citizens here we are talking about foreign combatants in a war.. this is about a matter of national security...
The rights you speak of, aren't just American rights. We follow the Geneva convention as a Nation due to the torture of our own solders. We have Military Law, which isn't being followed. And as a Country, we have laws that aren't being followed.

No national security, just follow the law that other countries with terrorists are following.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312039)
why would you want to put our nation at risk ??
What risk? They knew what some did, others told them, all of them want to die. And out of that mixture, several were falsely accused, snatched from foreign lands not controlled by the U.S. and taken to hell. Logic would tell me, this adds to the risk.


Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312039)
i believe in torture, renditions or any means necessary to protect our country.
Just think if someone snatched your family member, you have no idea.. You all assume they got kidnapped or died, something - no answers. Then 2-3 years they show up, and tell you that the neighbor across the street has kept you locked up, they beat them, starved them, said it was prison, for things they didn't do.... how would you feel about that neighbor? If you believe in torture, I'm sure death to this guy wouldn't be a second thought.

They aren't helping our country by doing this. It would be totally different if these people had stood trial already. But since they don't want to play by the rules, our people will force it.

robfantasy 06-12-2008 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 14312134)
i wasnt aware bin laden was their leader, oh yah he isn't

would you think it fair other countries kidnap and torture americans because of things pat robertson says because he is christian and most americans are christian ?



so you must know each of them or have spoken to each of them personally , or are you just assuming so. ? Thats what i thought. So infact if you throw anyone in gitmo right now you would just naturally assume thery love bin laden and agree with everything he says. So if iran kidnapped you we should assume you agree with everything pat robertson says and should let them torture you ?
smokey, do you know where these detainees are coming from? we arent picking off random muslims off the street.

you can make up hypotheticals, but this is reality...

is it fair that 3000 people had to die for no reason on 9/11 because islamic terrorists made a choice to invade this country and kill our citizens.

were they thinking about our human rights or a court of law when they decided to murder our fellow citizens in cold blood.

i would rather kick ass now and take names later...

anyone detained at gitmo would jump at the chance to slit our throats the second we let them out.

they are terrorists or associated with terrorism otherwise they wouldnt be there.

this is war, not save the whales

pocketkangaroo 06-12-2008 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312178)
smokey, do you know where these detainees are coming from? we arent picking off random muslims off the street.

you can make up hypotheticals, but this is reality...

is it fair that 3000 people had to die for no reason on 9/11 because islamic terrorists made a choice to invade this country and kill our citizens.

were they thinking about our human rights or a court of law when they decided to murder our fellow citizens in cold blood.

i would rather kick ass now and take names later...

anyone detained at gitmo would jump at the chance to slit our throats the second we let them out.

they are terrorists or associated with terrorism otherwise they wouldnt be there.

this is war, not save the whales
My question to you is how does this ruling change things? All it does is give them a trial. No one is letting them go.

robfantasy 06-12-2008 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 14312153)
Well written, people dont like looking at themselves its easier to believe bullshit like they hate us for our freedoms.
so you speak with terrorists leaders personally?

you can interpret their motives however you like..

i am not disagreeing that they arent upset over occupation, but if you chose to ignore my point for the sake of staying true to your party, you are the one who is lost.

robfantasy 06-12-2008 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 14312166)
The rights you speak of, aren't just American rights. We follow the Geneva convention as a Nation due to the torture of our own solders. We have Military Law, which isn't being followed. And as a Country, we have laws that aren't being followed.

No national security, just follow the law that other countries with terrorists are following.



What risk? They knew what some did, others told them, all of them want to die. And out of that mixture, several were falsely accused, snatched from foreign lands not controlled by the U.S. and taken to hell. Logic would tell me, this adds to the risk.




Just think if someone snatched your family member, you have no idea.. You all assume they got kidnapped or died, something - no answers. Then 2-3 years they show up, and tell you that the neighbor across the street has kept you locked up, they beat them, starved them, said it was prison, for things they didn't do.... how would you feel about that neighbor? If you believe in torture, I'm sure death to this guy wouldn't be a second thought.

They aren't helping our country by doing this. It would be totally different if these people had stood trial already. But since they don't want to play by the rules, our people will force it.
this is not a conventional war. they arent playing by the rules. things change. these arent our citizens, these are our foreign enemies.

we as a nation have a duty to protect OUR CITIZENS first.. no matter the cost.

if we lose sight of this, we will fail as a nation.

survival of the fittest. alliances merely to survive.

this is the same prison survival ideology. i would love to see how any of you would handle prison life as it is the perfect parallel.

tony286 06-12-2008 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312191)
so you speak with terrorists leaders personally?

you can interpret their motives however you like..

i am not disagreeing that they arent upset over occupation, but if you chose to ignore my point for the sake of staying true to your party, you are the one who is lost.
What democrats have said that?Actually Republican Ron paul said it. No I know how to read and learn, dont stick to right wing talking points.

robfantasy 06-12-2008 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 14312185)
My question to you is how does this ruling change things? All it does is give them a trial. No one is letting them go.
a trial, so the mastermind of a terrorist attack can go free on a technicallity... thats exactly what i want.

pocketkangaroo 06-12-2008 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312215)
a trial, so the mastermind of a terrorist attack can go free on a technicallity... thats exactly what i want.
By that argument, shouldn't we remove habeas corpus from all citizens and end this silly trial system. I mean if a murderer who lives down the street can get off on a technicality, I think that's just as bad as a terrorist.

Wouldn't you agree?

robfantasy 06-12-2008 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 14312219)
By that argument, shouldn't we remove habeas corpus from all citizens and end this silly trial system. I mean if a murderer who lives down the street can get off on a technicality, I think that's just as bad as a terrorist.

Wouldn't you agree?
GITMO DETAINEES are NOT CITIZENS!! they are enemy combatants in a war.

tony286 06-12-2008 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312227)
GITMO DETAINEES are NOT CITIZENS!! they are enemy combatants in a war.
http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=447281&sid=SAS

TheDoc 06-12-2008 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312208)
this is not a conventional war. they arent playing by the rules. things change. these arent our citizens, these are our foreign enemies.

we as a nation have a duty to protect OUR CITIZENS first.. no matter the cost.

if we lose sight of this, we will fail as a nation.

survival of the fittest. alliances merely to survive.

this is the same prison survival ideology. i would love to see how any of you would handle prison life as it is the perfect parallel.
You need to read up on what is going on. This does not protect us, it hurts us in the eyes of millions, maybe billions around the world. We are abusing the power we have.

If this is anything like prison survival, then things are really screwed up.

potter 06-12-2008 11:20 PM
it'll be 20 years before the past 8 are redeemed

uno 06-12-2008 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theking (Post 14311842)
I am in favor of the way the court ruled...you ignorant criminal motherfucker.
Yeah, I don't get it. I don't particularly like you, at all, but I thought it was pretty obvious you were in favor of the ruling and just went up a small +1 in my book. You do have some sense, which is a fraction of what I had previously believed.

You've won me over to now reading some of your threads with the tiniest modicum of support and credibility. :thumbsup

robfantasy 06-12-2008 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 14312240)
looks like a very reliable newsource to me. is your tinfoil hat catching interference?


do you subscribe to the if its on the internet its true ideology?

pocketkangaroo 06-12-2008 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312227)
GITMO DETAINEES are NOT CITIZENS!! they are enemy combatants in a war.
That's fine. But your argument is that the reason this decision is bad is because terrorists may get off on a technicality. You are essentially saying that you don't have a problem with citizen murderers getting off, but you do with non-citizen murderers. Interesting thought process.

uno 06-12-2008 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14311990)
they dont like the western way of life.. the freedoms we enjoy.. the abundance.. the indulgence.... pornographers would be the first to have their throat slit in their view.

what is so hard to understand about this..
Um... The issue is way more complex than that. Add to what the CIA calls "blowback" for things WE have done.

Have you seen rich Arab culture? Take a look at Dubai for the most extravagent example. They are still very religious, but its probably one of the most extravagent places on earth. :2 cents:

tony286 06-12-2008 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312290)
looks like a very reliable newsource to me. is your tinfoil hat catching interference?


do you subscribe to the if its on the internet its true ideology?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in525342.shtml

uno 06-12-2008 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312039)
these are rights that come with being an american citizen. we arent talking about american citizens here we are talking about foreign combatants in a war.. this is about a matter of national security...

why would you want to put our nation at risk ??

i believe in torture, renditions or any means necessary to protect our country.
They would have loved you in the spanish inquisition.

uno 06-12-2008 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312090)
so the bin laden text i just posted was written by george bush to keep me afraid? right?
He also said that if he hated freedom he'd attack sweden. :2 cents:

robfantasy 06-12-2008 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 14312251)
You need to read up on what is going on. This does not protect us, it hurts us in the eyes of millions, maybe billions around the world. We are abusing the power we have.

If this is anything like prison survival, then things are really screwed up.
things are really screwed up.

i guess you guys dont study wars and history.... we are sitting ducks right now.

this is the worst time to be worrying about the rights of terrorists.

tony286 06-12-2008 11:35 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16227791/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...mo-freed_x.htm

TheDoc 06-12-2008 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfantasy (Post 14312330)
things are really screwed up.

i guess you guys dont study wars and history.... we are sitting ducks right now.

this is the worst time to be worrying about the rights of terrorists.
I'm worried about the rights of the NON-terrorists being abused. That is what is hurting our country, that is what's going on, that is what's wrong. And I have studied war, what we are doing is called provoking war.


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