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-   -   Francis Koenig / Adultvest and iPorn drama worth sharing (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=839197)

Kasey 07-04-2008 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by payd2purv (Post 14423016)
Commmoonn people thats the dumbest fucking letter requesting payment I have ever seen.

Man when I was reading that I was expecting something serious and at the end of it all that its over $10 an hour.

Fuck why are designers such idiots.

Seriously the O.P went off on a tangent about how they are ruining the industry being unethical blah blah blah.. over what I bet is a lack of proper communication of $10 an hour...

wtf.

That is the type of letter you send the owners of pornbb not some guy that owes you $250 bucks..

Kasey just a tip wait for your PMS to pass before you go further with this...
Francis, please keep having your buddies keep bumping this thread. I know I will :)

DaLord 07-04-2008 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by payd2purv (Post 14423016)
Commmoonn people thats the dumbest fucking letter requesting payment I have ever seen.

Man when I was reading that I was expecting something serious and at the end of it all that its over $10 an hour.

Fuck why are designers such idiots.

Seriously the O.P went off on a tangent about how they are ruining the industry being unethical blah blah blah.. over what I bet is a lack of proper communication of $10 an hour...

wtf.

That is the type of letter you send the owners of pornbb not some guy that owes you $250 bucks..

Kasey just a tip wait for your PMS to pass before you go further with this...
<-- add picture of whiney kid here -->

Kasey 07-04-2008 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by payd2purv (Post 14423016)
Seriously the O.P went off on a tangent about how they are ruining the industry being unethical blah blah blah.. over what I bet is a lack of proper communication of $10 an hour...

wtf.

That is the type of letter you send the owners of pornbb not some guy that owes you $250 bucks..
What's ethical about someone not sending the whole amount of an invoice? Francis shorted me $820. While that might not be a large sum in your mind, it is in mine. I live pretty simply, and expect people to keep their word. Francis negotiated in bad faith. Period.

gne112 07-04-2008 05:02 PM
that sucks, misunderstanding started wars. :(

Kasey 07-04-2008 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gne112 (Post 14423107)
that sucks, misunderstanding started wars. :(
Not really, the rate and amount owed were clear from the start, and the conversations I had with Mike were more than straight forward. I realize that as an employee of Francis' MIke won't reply here, but he knows the story, and there was no misunderstanding at all. Francis consciously chose to not send the amount owed.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 07-04-2008 05:18 PM
I dunno about wrecking somones project that is live...

Thats kinda over the top, it affects webmaster's and infringing on thier efforts hurts innocent parties to this.
10 Dollars is 10 dollars but its trivial in a longterm business relationship. Which this seems like it was.

I have had clients that took months to pay I have had clients that pay in full ahead of time wrecking what they have paid for though goes well beyond my scope on conscience even in a minor descrepancy.

No winners here.

Kasey 07-04-2008 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 14423131)

No winners here.
No, there aren't. I'm out $820. I ended my business relationship with Francis after Mike called twice and apologized profusely for having to ask me to cut my rate from what we had agreed upon. I simply do not want to do business with someone that negotiates in bad faith.

Swapping out a banner image is nowhere near wrecking a site, so I'll rest well knowing that I acted with integrity. It was really tempting, though, not to take the whole site down :)

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 07-04-2008 05:37 PM
Well thats cool. I guess I dunno. Good luck though.

Evil E 07-04-2008 05:59 PM
I don't wish to take sides, but I find it funny how Francis changed the subject from the money he owes to the " jpeg/html swap" vandalism.

Best of luck!

tnamedia 07-04-2008 06:24 PM
This thread is priceless. Thanks for making my 4th!
It looks like all Kasey did was give them the $50/hr version of the site. What I'm amazed at is that you left the original artwork on the server. I might have removed it until after full payment.
I've been on kasey's side of the fence before, so I may be partially biased. Nothing sucks worse than someone trying to change the terms of a deal after you have upheld your end of the arrangement.

JamesK 07-04-2008 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasey (Post 14423103)
What's ethical about someone not sending the whole amount of an invoice? Francis shorted me $820. While that might not be a large sum in your mind, it is in mine. I live pretty simply, and expect people to keep their word. Francis negotiated in bad faith. Period.
Don't worry about him. He's been acting like a hot shot since he came here and won a contest. He has yet to wake the up from his big pimpin' dreams and the whole act that some people have here on GFY.

If there's one thing that annoys me is people that say "it was just $200" or whatever. If someone walked up to you and took $200 right out of your hands, would you not try to get it back? Even if you're a millionare, you can still have some fun with that money. A loss is a loss and even if it's small money, it's about principles. People need to start acting realistic.

:2 cents:

fuzebox 07-04-2008 07:28 PM
I know I won't be sending iPorn any traffic... If they're willing to arbitrarily underpay their designers, who knows what they'll do to affiliate earnings :helpme

MaDalton 07-04-2008 07:50 PM
i liked the unicorn header - and even more the bunny

$tandaman 07-05-2008 06:07 AM
Kasey, i run a design company, so i can feel your pain, but I am with Alien on this. Regardless of what the situation is, whether it's clear or misunderstanding, you can not legally and ethically fuck up someone's site just because you have access.

I am no lawyer but you got to be completely retarded to go and admit your actions in public, giving a cause for action in a defamation suite. You just signed yourself up for full bankruptcy.. showing damages would be easy, there is proof on this thread already.

We live in a legal society, and the way to solve it is to file a civil suite, in a small clams court to collect the funds if you are right, you won't find a Judge to get you paid on GFY.

Do you think there are many companies who would be willing to hire you knowing shall there be any kind of issue, the laundry will be on GFY and their reputation has a potential to be tarnished. Good luck getting jobs.

Lesson to learn regardless, get your paperwork straight before doing work to make sure there are no misunderstandings from any side.

JFK 07-05-2008 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 14423489)
i liked the unicorn header - and even more the bunny
too bad, I missed it :(

JamesK 07-05-2008 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by $tandaman (Post 14424619)
Kasey, i run a design company, so i can feel your pain, but I am with Alien on this. Regardless of what the situation is, whether it's clear or misunderstanding, you can not legally and ethically fuck up someone's site just because you have access.

I am no lawyer but you got to be completely retarded to go and admit your actions in public, giving a cause for action in a defamation suite. You just signed yourself up for full bankruptcy.. showing damages would be easy, there is proof on this thread already.

We live in a legal society, and the way to solve it is to file a civil suite, in a small clams court to collect the funds if you are right, you won't find a Judge to get you paid on GFY.

Do you think there are many companies who would be willing to hire you knowing shall there be any kind of issue, the laundry will be on GFY and their reputation has a potential to be tarnished. Good luck getting jobs.

Lesson to learn regardless, get your paperwork straight before doing work to make sure there are no misunderstandings from any side.
Good post $tandaman. I also think she'd perhaps should have had more patience. The letter was written in a professional manner (till the last line), but she could at least wait two weeks and try to sort it out. I think more people would back her up if she didn't clown around with the site.

Jet Redux 07-05-2008 07:26 AM
thats what you get for working with the jew

Scootermuze 07-05-2008 07:47 AM
Seems to me that if Kasey wasn't paid the amount agreed upon, then they pretty much voided the agreement... at which point Kasey could have taken the site down until the agreed amount was paid. Repossession is a legal action.

As for the vandalism bit.. The design, not being paid for in full, still belongs to Kasey. Ya can't vandalize your own property.

That's how I see it.. Then again, I like chocolate chip celery.. :)

Kasey 07-05-2008 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by $tandaman (Post 14424619)
Kasey, i run a design company, so i can feel your pain, but I am with Alien on this. Regardless of what the situation is, whether it's clear or misunderstanding, you can not legally and ethically fuck up someone's site just because you have access.
Like I said before, the modifications were minimal and only to prove a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $tandaman (Post 14424619)
We live in a legal society, and the way to solve it is to file a civil suite, in a small clams court to collect the funds if you are right, you won't find a Judge to get you paid on GFY.
If it wasn't clear - I am not trying to get that money back. By posting this thread, I completely wrote it off. I posted it here because Francis was unprofessional and I figure the community has a right to know when those sorts of things go down. Something like this says a lot about character. Undoubtedly, if someone is willing to short a designer a few hundred dollars, it makes you question what other creative accounting is going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $tandaman (Post 14424619)
Do you think there are many companies who would be willing to hire you knowing shall there be any kind of issue, the laundry will be on GFY and their reputation has a potential to be tarnished. Good luck getting jobs.
I'm not worried about it. I've done work with only two adult companies. The experience I had with the first was great. The experience with Francis has made me not want to pursue more business within the adult arena, so posting this to GFY doesn't do me any harm. I know there are a lot of good people in this business, unfortunately, I just had a brush with one of the dishonest ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $tandaman (Post 14424619)
Lesson to learn regardless, get your paperwork straight before doing work to make sure there are no misunderstandings from any side.
Noted, but in all the years I've done freelance design work, this has never happened.

Kasey 07-05-2008 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFK (Post 14424682)
too bad, I missed it :(
supertinymonster.com/iporn.jpg

the join now link went here:

supertinymonster.com/cheap.html

:)

Kasey 07-05-2008 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil E (Post 14423235)
I don't wish to take sides, but I find it funny how Francis changed the subject from the money he owes to the " jpeg/html swap" vandalism.

Best of luck!
Yep, I find that funny too :)

Brujah 07-05-2008 09:56 AM
I liked the bunnies and unicorns better. That content has to be 5+ years old on the site design too isn't it?

tluda 07-05-2008 04:07 PM
Kasey, here are some points you should think about before you take this any further.

1) You could have easily called me to sort out this misunderstanding, but you didn?t. You still to this day have not called me.
2) You admitted above that you had been getting paid $50/hr on prior work. It was clearly a misunderstanding that could have been solved in one conversation.
3) If you wanted to change your rate, all you had to do was ask. You never once called me to discuss a new pay rate. You simply changed the rate on your bill and sent it in. I probably would have given you the raise in your pay if you would have asked for it before you started the project. Heck, I would have even given it to you after the fact if you were cool about it. Obviously you weren?t cool about it.
4) You're trying to lay the blame on Mike. You knew Mike joined iPorn only two weeks before you began work on the site. He had no knowledge of our prior arrangements or what you had been getting paid. Again, a situation where a simple phone call could have saved you a lot of grief.

The bottom line is that you made no effort to resolve the problem. You just reacted. What you did was unethical. Don?t try to make me look like a bad guy when I?m not the cause of the problem. Vandalism and defamation of character is a serious issue and it leaves a permanent mark on your record. You could have a very hard time trying to find work. You are very lucky that I have no interest in going this route. Any other company would have already filed the papers. If anyone hires you in the future, my suggestion is to be upfront with them and if you have a problem, work it out in private.

Kasey 07-05-2008 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluda (Post 14425818)
Kasey, here are some points you should think about before you take this any further.

1) You could have easily called me to sort out this misunderstanding, but you didn?t. You still to this day have not called me.
Actually, Francis, I had two phone conversations with Mike because you had asked him to call me to have me lower my rate. As I mentioned in the letter, the first time I said no, because we had agreed on $60 per hour for the project. The first bill, which you guys did pay, was at that rate and I was very clear from the start that is what the project would be billed at. You guys didn't send a check for a couple of weeks, so I emailed to see if it had gone out. Mike called again and told me you guys had not sent a check and that you had requested that he ask me again if I would lower my rate. I believe my response was, wow that's really unprofessional - I can't believe Francis is having you call to ask me that again.

Mike asked if I might be willing to meet somewhere in the middle. I agreed to take 10% off the top of the invoice, and explained to Mike that I did not want to do any further business with Francis.

I sent a new invoice with the discount, and received another call from Mike stating that the check went out, but that Francis did not write a check for the full amount. My response to that was, wow, what a dick.

Had you, Francis, perhaps decided to call me and discuss the fact that you sent out a check for lower than the discounted invoice I sent you, this thread may not have been posted. I believe, however, that you thought that it would just slip on by

Quote:
Originally Posted by tluda (Post 14425818)
2) You admitted above that you had been getting paid $50/hr on prior work. It was clearly a misunderstanding that could have been solved in one conversation.
Then why didn't you pick up the phone to tell me that you were sending out a check for lower than my *discounted* invoice? Instead of discussing it, you sat and calculated the new number that you determined my time was worth and cut a check for it. Yes, I did work for you guys last year at a lower rate, but it was for print work that I bill at a lower rate and I was more than clear from the start about my rate for the iPorn project. You guys paid the first invoice, but didn't pay the full amount of the second.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tluda (Post 14425818)
3) If you wanted to change your rate, all you had to do was ask. You never once called me to discuss a new pay rate. You simply changed the rate on your bill and sent it in. I probably would have given you the raise in your pay if you would have asked for it before you started the project. Heck, I would have even given it to you after the fact if you were cool about it. Obviously you weren?t cool about it.
Simply not true. I was more than clear about my rate from the start. Man up, Francis, you made a mistake - hopefully you'll learn from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tluda (Post 14425818)
4) You're trying to lay the blame on Mike. You knew Mike joined iPorn only two weeks before you began work on the site. He had no knowledge of our prior arrangements or what you had been getting paid. Again, a situation where a simple phone call could have saved you a lot of grief.
I had two phone calls with Mike on your behalf. I tried to resolve it by giving you guys a discount and just moving on. By not sending a check for the full amount of the discounted invoice, you crossed a line. I should be clear here - the blame is on you, Francis, not Mike.

Mike is a straight-up, awesome guy who, as your employee acted as a liaison for your regrettable decisions. As for grief, this whole thing has had me laughing for two days straight - no grief here :) Though it would be nice to have that $800 bucks. Shucks :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tluda (Post 14425818)
The bottom line is that you made no effort to resolve the problem. You just reacted. What you did was unethical. Don?t try to make me look like a bad guy when I?m not the cause of the problem.
You are the cause of the problem.

Here's a word for you to remember:

Integrity: adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.

It's a big word, with four whole syllables, but do your best to try to remember it and apply it to your life and you won't find yourself in situations like this.

Cheers :)
Kasey

Mistah Charlie 07-05-2008 08:40 PM
Worth the price of admission!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasey (Post 14424999)
supertinymonster.com/iporn.jpg

the join now link went here:

supertinymonster.com/cheap.html

:)
Good one!

datatank 07-05-2008 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluda (Post 14425818)
Kasey, here are some points you should think about before you take this any further.

1) You could have easily called me to sort out this misunderstanding, but you didn?t. You still to this day have not called me.
2) You admitted above that you had been getting paid $50/hr on prior work. It was clearly a misunderstanding that could have been solved in one conversation.
3) If you wanted to change your rate, all you had to do was ask. You never once called me to discuss a new pay rate. You simply changed the rate on your bill and sent it in. I probably would have given you the raise in your pay if you would have asked for it before you started the project. Heck, I would have even given it to you after the fact if you were cool about it. Obviously you weren?t cool about it.
4) You're trying to lay the blame on Mike. You knew Mike joined iPorn only two weeks before you began work on the site. He had no knowledge of our prior arrangements or what you had been getting paid. Again, a situation where a simple phone call could have saved you a lot of grief.

The bottom line is that you made no effort to resolve the problem. You just reacted. What you did was unethical. Don?t try to make me look like a bad guy when I?m not the cause of the problem. Vandalism and defamation of character is a serious issue and it leaves a permanent mark on your record. You could have a very hard time trying to find work. You are very lucky that I have no interest in going this route. Any other company would have already filed the papers. If anyone hires you in the future, my suggestion is to be upfront with them and if you have a problem, work it out in private.

Hi can I ask what is the best way to contact you.

Kasey 07-06-2008 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by datatank (Post 14426445)
Hi can I ask what is the best way to contact you.
Not sure if you'd like my contact information or Francis'. You can reach me at [email protected]

I'll leave it up to Francis whether he'd like to post his information here.

Take care,
Kasey

tluda 07-07-2008 01:03 AM
Datatank you can call me at 323-330-6480

Scuzz 07-18-2008 03:35 AM
Interesting the way this is playing out.
Bureaucracy in motion.
BOSS "hey new guy... do all this, and say it's in my name"
NEW GUY "Oh, OK Boss"
Kasey "Hey New Guy, what up?"
NEW GUY 'The Boss told me to tell you.... Blah Blah Blah...."
Kasey "Hey! Where's my money"
BOSS "Either you or the New Guy fucked up It's your fault for not talking directly to me."
New Guy "I only work here"
Kasey "Where's my money?

Etc. Etc.

The Duck 07-18-2008 03:46 AM
it figures

v4 media 07-18-2008 04:41 AM
You invoiced someone 5+grand for http://www.iporn.com/
Damn, What else was involved apart from that design?

Sands 09-08-2009 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluda (Post 14422741)
We hired Kasey McMahon on several occasions to work on various design projects prior to her work on iPorn. We had been consistently paying her $50/hr and have always paid on time. It would be easy for me to produce records of this fact. Then she wrote us a bill for $60/hr and our accounting department brought it to me. We thought it was a mistake. I asked them to check the rates we had previously paid her. Kasey arbitrarily raised her rate. She never called me to discuss an increase in her pay rate. So we went ahead and paid her at the $50/hr rate. I would have agreed to the $60 rate if Kasey would have asked for it up front before starting the project. All she had to do was put in a call to me and talk about it. Instead she tried to be sneaky about it and slip it through the cracks. Now she went ahead and did something could put her in a lot of trouble. I would be surprised to see other companies jumping to hire Kasey after she?s shown everyone that she is willing to vandalize and slander a company over a misunderstanding that could have easily been cleared up with a phone call. Kasey this is your direct quote: ?I like to think that working in the adult business is akin to mainstream, but actions like yours make me think otherwise.? Kasey, you?ve obviously contradicted yourself. I?ve worked with a lot of great people in the adult industry. Your course of action is EXACTLY what gives the adult business a bad rap!

~Francis Koenig
lollerskates.

C H R I S 09-08-2009 07:06 AM
mmmmmkay

Dirty D 09-08-2009 10:16 AM
All involved with iPorn are being scammed or are part of the scam.

http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/925677-iporn-scam-revealed-user-fraud-francis-koenig-ripping-advertisers.html

HorseShit 09-08-2009 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C H R I S 2.0 (Post 16291446)
mmmmmkay
__________________
Sig too big

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/gfy_faqs.html

Want to use a large banner in your sig??? Contact Eric about getting on as an advertiser - eric AT adult.com



siggy to big dude

Tryst33 09-08-2009 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasey (Post 14421782)
Hi GFY folks -

Below is an email I just sent to Francis Koenig, President and CEO of Adultvest and iPorn. I believe it's worthy of being an open letter to this community. Cheers to all, and happy fourth.

Francis -

I received the check you sent, however, as Mike had warned me, you decided to cut the dollar amount for less than we had agreed upon.

So tell me, how is that justified in your mind? I had discussed my rate with Mike - I was quite firm that it was $60 an hour, and you guys had paid that rate for the prior work I had done on the iPorn site.

Mike called not once, but twice after I had sent my invoice and said that you had requested that I cut my rate. The first time I refused, on principal, because as I told Mike, we agreed on $60 an hour. Mike agreed and said he'd send out a check. Two weeks passed, so I emailed asking if the check had been sent. Mike called again, apologized for having to ask me again to cut my rate, but said it was coming from you. I agreed to take 10% off the top, and stated that I no longer wanted to work with you guys.

I sent in my invoice, forced '10% discount' applied, yet even after that you cut a check for less than that amount. That is not only unprofessional, it's unethical.

I like to think that working in the adult business is akin to mainstream, but actions like yours make me think otherwise. My only other experience working in adult has been as Creative Director with XBiz for a few years. Alec is a fair and honest businessman who treats his employees well. Clearly I was mistaken to take that experience and apply the same trust to your project.

What baffles me here is that you are doing this to an individual. You're not shorting a large company - you're taking money directly out of someone's pocket. I'm an artist that does design work to pay rent and keep up with my school loans. You decided to take over $800 off of my bill - that's a large cut for someone like me.

I, along with the rest of your team, put in the hours and many late nights in order to make sure that under a tight three-week deadline, with no real formulated idea of what you wanted the site to be, you had a site up by Erotic LA. It's interesting to me that you'd pay a mint for the 'iPorn' name, then not pay the people that work hard to make it a reality.

I like to think the best of folks, but you've made me realize that greed is an unfortunate part of human nature. I'm glad I'm not in your shoes, having to wake up every morning thinking about the people I've walked all over.

You have an excellent team - all individually good people. You should be thankful for that, but my guess is that if you've slighted me, I'm not the only one.

It's interesting that through Adultvest you also claim to manage other people's money as a hedge fund manager. I can only imagine what the accounting on that must look like.

An organization can easily be tarnished from the top down, and as you embark creating affiliate programs and the like with the 'iPorn' brand, know that reputation goes a long way.

What goes around, comes around. Good luck to ya.

Kasey

* Also, just a bit of advice - as you cheat webmasters going forward, I highly
recommend changing the passwords on the websites they've done work on.
Hey Kasey,
We never met.
Names Tryst.
You can read my story too if you want.
Tryst33
iporn

Tryst33 09-08-2009 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasey (Post 14424990)
Like I said before, the modifications were minimal and only to prove a point.



If it wasn't clear - I am not trying to get that money back. By posting this thread, I completely wrote it off. I posted it here because Francis was unprofessional and I figure the community has a right to know when those sorts of things go down. Something like this says a lot about character. Undoubtedly, if someone is willing to short a designer a few hundred dollars, it makes you question what other creative accounting is going on.



I'm not worried about it. I've done work with only two adult companies. The experience I had with the first was great. The experience with Francis has made me not want to pursue more business within the adult arena, so posting this to GFY doesn't do me any harm. I know there are a lot of good people in this business, unfortunately, I just had a brush with one of the dishonest ones.



Noted, but in all the years I've done freelance design work, this has never happened.
Fuck that Kasey,
I saw what you did the next morning. The whole office loved it!!!!!!

Tryst33 09-08-2009 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasey (Post 14423170)
No, there aren't. I'm out $820. I ended my business relationship with Francis after Mike called twice and apologized profusely for having to ask me to cut my rate from what we had agreed upon. I simply do not want to do business with someone that negotiates in bad faith.

Swapping out a banner image is nowhere near wrecking a site, so I'll rest well knowing that I acted with integrity. It was really tempting, though, not to take the whole site down :)
I wish you had.

Don Pueblo 09-08-2009 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluda (Post 14422976)
Kasey, your best course of action would have been to call me and discuss the situation. I'm sure this ridiculous misunderstanding could have been resolved with one phone call. As it stands now, you have publicly admitted to Vandalism and have made efforts to slander my reputation and that of the company's I?m am placed in charge of. What you have actually done is you have shown the entire GFY community that you are a serious risk to any company who hires you.

Signing off,
Francis
Nah, we believe Kasey. Trust me. :2 cents:

Don Pueblo 09-08-2009 05:32 PM
lolz at the francis guy battling piddly shit with a designer but going nowhere near the threads about anything of substance.

Tryst33 09-08-2009 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay23 (Post 14421936)
Dont this guys have 6 billion or some thing like that and hedge fund of the year etc etc.
It was for hedge fund launch of the year. Not its proformance. It never had that kinda money in it EVER!
The award was for being different,....a fund that invests in porn....ect.

Tryst33 09-08-2009 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Pueblo (Post 16294520)
lolz at the francis guy battling piddly shit with a designer but going nowhere near the threads about anything of substance.
what Francis is on here???
BRING IT CHUMP!!


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