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crazies 07-12-2008 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14453570)
Sorry guys had to step away for a few.

I really have quite a few reasons.

To me these are what I feel are the most important ones to consider:

#1:
Picture yourself with 100's or thousands of rebills going all sold with regional billing in Euros, they are fixed on the Euro price.

For example if your USD price is 29.95 USD CCBill recommends you bill the same numerical amount in Euros and because of the current exchange rate of 1.00 EUR = 1.59099 USD or 29.95 EUR = 47.6501 USD - You make an extra $15.36 USD in your pocket, the processor makes a little more too remember.

If the the Euro drops (and it could drop back to below a USD like it was)
then all those rebills you have going that are billed in EUROS also drop!

So if the Euro drops you get less money.

This is not rocket science people.

#2
I am selling more Euro memberships than ever right now. Yes you can still bill your customer in Euros but it''s the equivalent of what the exchange rate is from the USD price. This is how it works without regional billing.

Without using regional billing the European customer pays almost 19 Euros for a 29.95 USD membership. See what a great deal it is for Europeans to buy stuff from USA?
I am 99% sure that's why I am seeing more Euro sales now than I have ever before.
I am not going to fuck with it.

#3
Affiliates are involved and affected with whatever decision u make.

#4
Review Sites and other affiliates that pre sell and use price points in their sales pitch and in their rankings like review sites for example. If a European surfs a review site and sees that the price is 29.95 USD he knows what that means. How do you think he will feel when he hits your join page with "Regional Billing" activated?

(hint: he will feel pissed off)

if he sees it then.

What if he doesnt see it or notice it till 6 months down the road?

I smell CB's.

That is all for now.

Cheers,
BV
I agree. We considered these 4 issues as well as others and to me its a matter of short term vs long term mentality/goals. We went with the long term goal and decided against regional billing and our daily sales as well as renewals are at an all time high.

We receive a lot of feedback from our members on a daily basis and have already been asked about regional billing from some members that have multiple subscriptions. Let me tell you, they are not dumb and they were not happy with the sites that were charging much more. Some decided not to join the site that they were previously a member of on several occasions.

Read some of the surfer forums and you will see exactly what the paying members think.

2MuchMark 07-12-2008 08:58 PM
This has to be the most interesting and useful thread on GFY ever created. Very interesting.

stickyfingerz 07-12-2008 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazies (Post 14453834)
I agree. We considered these 4 issues as well as others and to me its a matter of short term vs long term mentality/goals. We went with the long term goal and decided against regional billing and our daily sales as well as renewals are at an all time high.

We receive a lot of feedback from our members on a daily basis and have already been asked about regional billing from some members that have multiple subscriptions. Let me tell you, they are not dumb and they were not happy with the sites that were charging much more. Some decided not to join the site that they were previously a member of on several occasions.

Read some of the surfer forums and you will see exactly what the paying members think.
The surfer can choose what currency they pay in. So what is the issue? I believe it uses geo ip to select what the default currency is billed under. But the option is still there. Shit if I want a subscription I can choose to pay in Yen if I want right now.

sortie 07-12-2008 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazies (Post 14453834)
I agree. We considered these 4 issues as well as others and to me its a matter of short term vs long term mentality/goals. We went with the long term goal and decided against regional billing and our daily sales as well as renewals are at an all time high.

We receive a lot of feedback from our members on a daily basis and have already been asked about regional billing from some members that have multiple subscriptions. Let me tell you, they are not dumb and they were not happy with the sites that were charging much more. Some decided not to join the site that they were previously a member of on several occasions.

Read some of the surfer forums and you will see exactly what the paying members think.
Well, if your affiliates are all doing revshare they might see something different.

If many other sponsors go to multi-currency and are putting more money in their affiliates paychecks on revshare then maybe you lose all your affilates to satisfy a handful of customers that would probably complain about a free bucket full of gold not being shiny enough.

Try working a business with security cameras and microphones and then match the customer complaints to the actual video with sound. It'll take you about 10 minutes to figure out that society is full of bullshiting, whining customers who lie like fucking shit to get what they want. And the ones that do it the most are absolutely the worst customers. You will not fire the employee, you'll tell the customer to get the fuck out and never comeback.

Don't get all worked up over a handful of constant complainers who have no life and think
they can build a life by fucking with you.

BV 07-12-2008 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortie (Post 14453803)
Your increased european sales could be caused by a spike in that traffic.
Did some new webmasters sign up that have nothing but tons of European traffic?

Also my experience with pricing is that "rebillable surfers" don't decline to sign up over a few dollars in price. That's why I never use trials. Not using trials makes more money.

It is the biggest false belief in the world that a surfer will decline a site charging $39.99
because they would rather go to another site that charges $29.99.
There is tons of free porn, so the surfer is only signing up because that particular site
has them hooked. If price were the issue then none of us would ever ever ever get a sign up because there is plenty of porn for free, and free is the best price.




Affiliates have a strange habit of shutting the fuck up when more money than expected appears in their stats. :1orglaugh




First, unless the surfer is blind, they will see the price and the option to change it on the sales form; and he can change it to what ever it equaled on the review site.

Second, the surfer is not stupid enought to think that the review site is plugged into all paysites and instantly updates the review when the price has changed.

If you continue to charge in dollars and the going rate for sign ups rises then are you not going to raise your price because someone has a review site and needs to change a page?

No way.

I smell charge back when I join a site in euros/pounds without having a dollar option and then find out that I actually paid $75 dollars for that shit.
Show me the dollars and if I still want it for that price then where is my complaint?
You're grabbing at straws and not making much sense with your comments. Do you even run a paysite?

Axeman 07-12-2008 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14453877)
You're grabbing at straws and not making much sense with your comments. Do you even run a paysite?
The very question I was thinking. His whole perspective seems to be from what he will see as an affiliate.

BV 07-12-2008 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 14453856)
The surfer can choose what currency they pay in. So what is the issue? I believe it uses geo ip to select what the default currency is billed under. But the option is still there. Shit if I want a subscription I can choose to pay in Yen if I want right now.
This has nothing to do with what we are talking about: "Regional Billing".

You are not the only one confused.

sortie 07-12-2008 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14453877)
You're grabbing at straws and not making much sense with your comments. Do you even run a paysite?
Now how would I know this option was available in the CCBill admin for paysites if I did not have an account.

Grabing at straws makes more sense then not clicking my sig and seeing that I own what I'm selling. :1orglaugh

Do you see any affiliate code in my sig link?
No you don't, and there is a logical reason for that.
Think about it.


I have run paysites under CCbill, verotel, and Globill.

Do you even remember Globill?

They had multi-currency and therefore the best conversion in the game at that time.

Too bad Visa hated them for not collecting $700 from each webmasters and shut them down. :1orglaugh

sortie 07-12-2008 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14453884)
This has nothing to do with what we are talking about: "Regional Billing".

You are not the only one confused.
He's talking about the exact subject that I started this thead about and he is absolutley right that the ccbill sales form allows any surfer to chose between several currencies.

Maybe you should just click thru on my site and look at the form.

sortie 07-12-2008 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axeman (Post 14453882)
The very question I was thinking. His whole perspective seems to be from what he will see as an affiliate.
:helpme

..

woj 07-12-2008 09:53 PM
50 different currencies...

sortie 07-12-2008 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woj (Post 14453926)
50 different currencies...
:1orglaugh

Beaver Bob 07-12-2008 09:58 PM
We use it. We love it. And so do our affiliates :)

stickyfingerz 07-12-2008 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14453884)
This has nothing to do with what we are talking about: "Regional Billing".

You are not the only one confused.
I was on the beta for Regional Billing Im pretty sure I know what it is. I also know it makes me 41.00 for a euro sale instead of 27.95. I know we have seen a VERY good increase on profits since we adapted it. I know I have 16 paysites running regional billing also.

Now please tell me why I am wrong?

Here I am on one of our join pages. By default it is set to USD because my ip is in the U.S.

http://www.stickyboxbucks.com/usd.jpg

Here it is where I have decided to pay using the Euro EVEN though I am in the U.S.

http://www.stickyboxbucks.com/euro.jpg

Look I can pay in Yen if I want.

http://www.stickyboxbucks.com/yen.jpg

Now the way world currency works at any given time one currency is likely to be down, while another is up. Things will always balance. So if the Euro drops the dollar might come back up.

I trust Ccbill to make that they have done their homework better than I can. Ill stick with it. It has made me and my affiliates more money over the months since changing over to it.

sortie 07-12-2008 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 14453965)
I was on the beta for Regional Billing Im pretty sure I know what it is. I also know it makes me 41.00 for a euro sale instead of 27.95. I know we have seen a VERY good increase on profits since we adapted it. I know I have 16 paysites running regional billing also.

Now please tell me why I am wrong?

Here I am on one of our join pages. By default it is set to USD because my ip is in the U.S.

http://www.stickyboxbucks.com/usd.jpg

Here it is where I have decided to pay using the Euro EVEN though I am in the U.S.

http://www.stickyboxbucks.com/euro.jpg

Look I can pay in Yen if I want.

http://www.stickyboxbucks.com/yen.jpg

Now the way world currency works at any given time one currency is likely to be down, while another is up. Things will always balance. So if the Euro drops the dollar might come back up.

I trust Ccbill to make that they have done their homework better than I can. Ill stick with it. It has made me and my affiliates more money over the months since changing over to it.
All he had to do was click thru on your site and see that himself, yet he claims he has "researched" this.

I'm like you. I'm betting that ccbill knows what they are doing.

BV 07-12-2008 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortie (Post 14453914)
He's talking about the exact subject that I started this thead about and he is absolutley right that the ccbill sales form allows any surfer to chose between several currencies.

Maybe you should just click thru on my site and look at the form.

This confirms that you are clueless and an idiot.
You don't have to log in and click "yes" to be able to bill in different currencies. That is DEFAULT. Has been for almost a couple years.

Read my posts above, I even say I bill in Euros.

However, I have not accepted yes to "Regional Billing" you have to log in and check "yes" to enable this. This is what you are "trying" to be all authoritative on, but really you just admitted that you don't even know what the fuck it is.

How does it feel to own yourself?

stickyfingerz 07-12-2008 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14453985)
This confirms that you are clueless and an idiot.
You don't have to log in and click "yes" to be able to bill in different currencies. That is DEFAULT. Has been for almost a couple years.

Read my posts above, I even say I bill in Euros.

However, I have not accepted yes to "Regional Billing" you have to log in and check "yes" to enable this. This is what you are "trying" to be all authoritative on, but really you just admitted that you don't even know what the fuck it is.

How does it feel to own yourself?
Right before it was by default whatever you billed the site in. So it would normally bill in USD by default for us even in Europe. NOW its done by Geo Ip to show whatever default, and the amount they are charged is based different. Instead of them paying the exact amount that 27.95 USD would be the equivelent in Euros they are paying a amount that is what would be equal to account for the drop of the dollar. It doesnt change the fact that they CAN click the USD button and see the exact amount in USD. If Im in Europe and click USD it is going to show 41.00. There is no deception here unless you put your pricing on your tour somewhere. We do not. We leave it only on the join form.

BV 07-12-2008 10:40 PM
Sticky, those little flags show up whether regional billing is activated or not. Those flags don't mean you have regional billing activated.

Seriously, You guys are a riot. This is insane.

BV 07-12-2008 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 14453993)
Right before it was by default whatever you billed the site in. So it would normally bill in USD by default for us even in Europe. NOW its done by Geo Ip to show whatever default, and the amount they are charged is based different. Instead of them paying the exact amount that 27.95 USD would be the equivelent in Euros they are paying a amount that is what would be equal to account for the drop of the dollar. It doesnt change the fact that they CAN click the USD button and see the exact amount in USD. If Im in Europe and click USD it is going to show 41.00. There is no deception here unless you put your pricing on your tour somewhere. We do not. We leave it only on the join form.
The Geo IP on the forms works without activating "Regional Billing"

sortie 07-12-2008 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14453985)
This confirms that you are clueless and an idiot.
You don't have to log in and click "yes" to be able to bill in different currencies. That is DEFAULT. Has been for almost a couple years.

Read my posts above, I even say I bill in Euros.

However, I have not accepted yes to "Regional Billing" you have to log in and check "yes" to enable this. This is what you are "trying" to be all authoritative on, but really you just admitted that you don't even know what the fuck it is.

How does it feel to own yourself?
http://tubecgi.com/regional.jpg

And then STFU. :1orglaugh

BV 07-12-2008 10:53 PM
I'll simplify this a bit.

The only thing that "Regional Billing" is charge more or less for your product based on country.

However most of the hype you hear is about being able to charge more

You can also use Regional Billing to charge less. (like for poorer countries)

BV 07-12-2008 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortie (Post 14454020)
http://tubecgi.com/regional.jpg

And then STFU. :1orglaugh
You just owned yourself again.

That's to activate regional billing.

You don't need to activate that to bill in different currencies fool!

stickyfingerz 07-12-2008 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14454003)
The Geo IP on the forms works without activating "Regional Billing"
You did not read my full post. JUST like I clicked and was able to see what amount I would pay in other denominations, the non USD customer can do the same. Hence there is no deception. It will show them the exact amount in USD if they are being regional billed in Euros. This isnt rocket science here. If you use regional billing don't have the price on the tour, and have it only on the ccbill form.

stickyfingerz 07-12-2008 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14454024)
You just owned yourself again.

That's to activate regional billing.

You don't need to activate that to bill in different currencies fool!
You are missing the point it seems.

stickyfingerz 07-12-2008 11:01 PM
So who is in a region that uses euros? Please click through and tell me what the Euro amount you see is for this.

www.dixiedash.com/join.html click joing by cc. Now note the Euro price, and then click the USD price the USD price should be around 41.00.

iheartbucks 07-12-2008 11:04 PM
yeh I've done this for a while now and it's been great!

BV 07-12-2008 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 14454030)
You are missing the point it seems.
and what point am i missing?

stickyfingerz 07-12-2008 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14454040)
and what point am i missing?
The point that the price is listed in USD for those paying in Euro too. There is no deception. Im off to bed lol. Ill let Mark or Paul answer from here on in. lol Im not going to try and force anyone to make more money. :upsidedow

Boobzooka 07-12-2008 11:07 PM
Lots of theorycraft in this thread, but the correct answer is easily measured by results; does regional billing make you more or less money?

I turned it on, gave it a fair trial, and was pleased with the noticeable increase in revenue. It turns out most people in Europe are just as willing to pay ?24.95 as $24.95. With the current exchange rate, why wouldn't you take that?

sortie 07-12-2008 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14454024)
You just owned yourself again.

That's to activate regional billing.

You don't need to activate that to bill in different currencies fool!
But I need to activate it so I can pay my affilates $151 for a $99 dollar sale during my
100% payout this month.

You must have some aggresive protozoa eating at your brain stem if you don't understand that angle.

And this thead was about making more money by clicking that option.

This thread is not about idiots like you who don't want to give bigger payouts to your affiliates and would rather take care of 3 to 4 whining trolls from Transylvania who want
to save 2 Euros. :1orglaugh

Dirty F 07-12-2008 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DareRing (Post 14454046)
Lots of theorycraft in this thread, but the correct answer is easily measured by results; does regional billing make you more or less money?
It makes me more.

Till i turned it on every customer paid (fictional example) 20 US. Now all Americans still pay 20 US but Europeans pay 20 Euro's. So yes, you make more money.

Dirty F 07-12-2008 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 14454037)
So who is in a region that uses euros? Please click through and tell me what the Euro amount you see is for this.

www.dixiedash.com/join.html click joing by cc. Now note the Euro price, and then click the USD price the USD price should be around 41.00.
28 euros or 42 dollars.

sortie 07-12-2008 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DareRing (Post 14454046)
Lots of theorycraft in this thread, but the correct answer is easily measured by results; does regional billing make you more or less money?
Currently it makes more money, unless you have all Japanese traffic.

And that's all this post was to be about.

Click yes, make more. I had no idea there would be a big debate about it.

BV 07-12-2008 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 14454045)
The point that the price is listed in USD for those paying in Euro too. There is no deception. Im off to bed lol. Ill let Mark or Paul answer from here on in. lol Im not going to try and force anyone to make more money. :upsidedow
I never said it wasn't listed. lol I know it's listed.


Your confusing with what I said about affiliates that promote using price points and like how review sites list the price and include it on their ranking?

Anyways, I know what the fuck I am talking about. Corvette or anyone from CCBill once they read this thread will confirm that.

I'm not saying it's bad and don't do it. But for the reasons I listed above are why I am not doing it.

BV 07-12-2008 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty F (Post 14454067)
It makes me more.

Till i turned it on every customer paid (fictional example) 20 US. Now all Americans still pay 20 US but Europeans pay 20 Euro's. So yes, you make more money.
i agree you make more money (per sale)
just less sales (imo)

Boobzooka 07-12-2008 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14454079)
i agree you make more money (per sale)
just less sales (imo)
This is a theory, easily tested. I strongly suggest testing it. :winkwink:

bloggingseo 07-13-2008 12:01 AM
This thread is crazy

borked 07-13-2008 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 14453965)
I was on the beta for Regional Billing Im pretty sure I know what it is. I also know it makes me 41.00 for a euro sale instead of 27.95. I know we have seen a VERY good increase on profits since we adapted it. I know I have 16 paysites running regional billing also.

Now please tell me why I am wrong?

Here I am on one of our join pages. By default it is set to USD because my ip is in the U.S.

http://www.stickyboxbucks.com/usd.jpg

Here it is where I have decided to pay using the Euro EVEN though I am in the U.S.

http://www.stickyboxbucks.com/euro.jpg

Look I can pay in Yen if I want.

http://www.stickyboxbucks.com/yen.jpg

Now the way world currency works at any given time one currency is likely to be down, while another is up. Things will always balance. So if the Euro drops the dollar might come back up.

I trust Ccbill to make that they have done their homework better than I can. Ill stick with it. It has made me and my affiliates more money over the months since changing over to it.
No, this is all wrong. The user CANNOT click on USD and pay the same price as everyone else...

This is what I see at your site... same USD figure, but billing in Euro. Do you call this fair?

http://corecoder.com/gfy/sticky/dd-euro.gif

And if I try to get billed in dollars, bam. I see that the price advertised on your site isn't the same as what I am being billed...

http://corecoder.com/gfy/sticky/dd-dollar.gif

BV 07-13-2008 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socks (Post 14452887)
I'm still very concerned about their multi-currency, because the customer invariably gets charged more in their currency than the US membership is worth (driving sales away if the customer is smart enough to check rates). Add to that, you don't receive a penny of the extra money.

I recently noticed a $9.99 USD membership selling for $10.57 CDN, and the CDN dollar at that time was worth more than the USD.

So CCBill charges customer $10.57 in a currency worth MORE than USD, and then pays you $9.99 (minus CCBill fee).

Whose getting the extra $0.60?

Nobody has been able to answer this question for me.
It must be on some type of average.

because without "Regional Billing" activated the CAD or EURO transaction will always = what you have the US base price set to.
Even rebills.
If the value of the CAD drops the next month the members card is hit up for more the next rebill or less depending.

Without Regional Billing activated this disclaimer shows up on my forms:

Any subsequent (future) charges will be billed in the above selected currency, and are subject to adjustment (adjustments are based on the selected currency value = to US Dollars), at the time of each subsequent charge.

I'm guessing with Regional Billing activated that disclaimer goes away and the customer gets billed the same amount each time.

Someone from Europe look at Stickys join form and see if the above disclaimer shows up please.

borked 07-13-2008 12:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 14454045)
The point that the price is listed in USD for those paying in Euro too. There is no deception. Im off to bed lol. Ill let Mark or Paul answer from here on in. lol Im not going to try and force anyone to make more money. :upsidedow
ok, sorry for my above post aimed at you. I see that you are ware of this. However, it's my view that cos most sites (not yours) advertise the price on their tours, that when they get to the biller, the advertised price isn't the price they are billed. Not by a long shot...


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