nothin like parents paying for their kids to be idiots until they're 24

metaman, i share the same view as you.

most people make university/college sound a like a life of death option... yet, almost all the successful people i know never bothered with either.

That's how the 80/20 rule works not the other way around.If you look at a sale force 20 percent make 80 percent of the sales.I think for any adult company that rule probably applies.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some prefer to take a non-traditional route to gain experience in the world without formal education, others prefer the conventional route. Still others prefer a mix of business knowledge while going to school on nights and/or weekends.

I think my 15 years in the business world has provided me with a bit of 'real world' knowledge. Oh, and by the way I am one of those 'idiots' with an MBA :thumbsup

You should be careful how you address those that you don't know.

I work in recruiting and the majority of the people I place in 100k+ jobs WOULD NOT be able to get hired without the degree.

(These are engineering and management roles.)

I have to disagree with your so-called "FACT".

you should take some of your own advice and be careful how you address those who you dont know thats why you stormed into this thread and post "The level of idiocy on this board always amuses me." :2 cents:

do you think i care about your "MBA" my exact point is people in this world have an eliteist attitude when there should be no place for it. and college and university kids are a prime example. and it is my job to bring you down a peg, you totally ignore all the point of this thread to come through and somehow compare it to yourself.

do you realize how big of a loser you sound when you go " i am one of those with an MBA"? :1orglaugh

so how does that change the fact that 90% of degrees are useless do you need me to do a breakdown of courses they offer?

Most people who didn't have the college experience are always jealous. I love the freedom, sex, girls, girls, two on one action, having different girlfriends, then getting a house on the Jersey shore with more girls.

Beside that the networking that I did in college still get me in the back doors of companies. Most of my college friends are deep with in the corporate world. I do favors for them they do favors for me.

I met my wife in college...had kids...living the good life

BTW ....I have a company, I work when I want to, I have an employee, I enjoy my time with my family......


Don't let education interfere with college...College is what you make of it.

Yea no kidding... but again a great deal of people here on GFY could be classed as legally retarded by their government(s), having IQs around 50.

:upsidedow

I completely disagree, and most of the time it's people that have never been or graduated from college who have this view. I'm definitely not saying that you can't be successful without a degree, nor am I saying that a degree will guarantee you a job, successful career or any set amount of income. There are countless amounts of people who have been extremely successful w/out a degree, and countless amounts of people who are barely scraping by with degrees.

But going to school for anything else besides become a laywer or doctor is NOT always completely pointless. College provides an environment of learning new ideas, challenging old ones, becoming a critical thinker and so much more. Critical thinking is an essential skill that can help anyone in any industry or career. Going to college isn't just about learning stuff from text books or a lecture, it's about bouncing off your thoughts on a matter, having your classmates/peers bounce their thoughts off you and having your own thoughts evolve from the process. It's not just a bunch of sheep going through the motions (although there are some that do)...there's really no other place like it. If you go to school with the right mindset, the ROI can be huge.

90% of people are useless, so maybe 90% of degrees are useless too. I dunno.

I started working at 14 or so and when my class graduated high school, I already had a couple of years experience in the work force.

Might be fun now that I'm in my 40's to do some college, but it would purely be out of a genuine interest in the subject. Frankly that seems to be the best reason to go to school, rather than just following marching orders. I dont think I'd make more money if I had a degree at this point.

Here is what my college experience was like..... We made the news......

http://www.njscout.com/images/chanll.wmv

Well, the 'experience' as in partying for years, good friends, and fun yes. But I think the original remark was in regards to the to college degree. I am still paying on my education, and my 'degree' has not been all that beneficial... communications mass media... in opening doors.

I worked in telco for years before starting my own gig. But I did get to intern at radio stations, was manager of my college radio station for 3 years, and interned a summer at Polygram over in Warren.

But I do not know if the 'expereince' was worth $50k :Oh crap

Agreed.

You know, I don't think she's making the general statement that a degree=success. But I think her point is simply that there are some people who have done better in their careers because they've gotten a degree. Surely you can't disagree with that?

I used to agree with this until recently.

A good friend who owns a digital image corporation wont even give me a job unless I start to go to college to show him I am willing to earn a degree or do what it takes to succeed in his business...and this guy knows what skills I have and work ethic.

Good jobs in my area need a degree of some sort.. the rest of the jobs are minimum wage retail, dept. store, fast food, or some other kind of people service bullshit.

The only other high paying jobs are hard physical labor and those fucks dont even get paid enough.

Yeah I agree that the road graduates take after school is not the right way being employed by the puppet masters.

However school is still very important since basic skills are taught here. To me life after graduation is a matter of choice. It's better to go to war being prepared. Same goes with life after school. The more knowledge you earned from school the more you are better prepared to take life's challenges.

It's really a matter choice whatever career you want to pursue.

Toomuch posts to read so i would just say how i was thinking same.Well that is why people say go to college so you can get paper.So tehnicly purpose of college is to waiving with paper :D

I work in recruiting and the majority of the people I place in 100k+ jobs WOULD NOT be able to get hired without the degree.

(These are engineering and management roles.)

I have to disagree with your so-called "FACT".

If you live in a metropolitan area most of the people that don't have a degree are working for those that do.

Go up north in Wisconsin,no one has a degree..many haven't even graduated from highschool. Yet they survive and are probably happy in a simpler life.

You're changing your statement. I'm not going to have a discussion with someone who can't stay on task... just like my clients won't hire someone who can't attain a "degree" of education.

Perhaps a degree is 90% useless in your life, but to say that they are useless in general is a pretty naive statement. A degree says you have attained higher education, and education is NEVER useless.

Its true, when I found out that what I eventually want to do doesnt require a degree, i ex'd it off my list of to do things, all my education to be certified is hands on experience...and more employers are now looking for experience rather than a paper and NO experience.....my friend has a bachelors in psychology....no job until she proves she has experience.....its sad...

Bullshit.

MetaMan is just speaking form is his own ignorant experience working online.

90% of my friends went to a big univ/college find it a lot easier to find a job than my friends who didn't go to school and are trying to find jobs based on their experience...

Sorry but I dont want someone "trying" psychology... It's not sad she should have pursued her schooling further and got her masters... Even then she'd probally still have to work to gain experience.. this is very common in A LOT of fields..

"working online"

you are the one who is blinded.

your degree and no experience is being replaced by a chinese guy with experience who does the job for half the price. have fun college kids.

maybe you just hang out with alot of people who are just lazy and stupid? all of my friends but one that do not have degrees all work and make good money.

how is it that my friends left school to get jobs in the oil field and are now making much more then the ones that lasted it out? please explain that. my other friend left chef school to work in higher end restaurants and get the experience.

this is a global economy now, this is not 20 years ago.

you are the one who is ignorant, you are taught to believe in a certain way, that is why you are sheep, you are so blind and i dont blame you, you are raised like this from birth so i dont expect it to hit you in the face. hopefully eventually you will pull through.

Let me guess, you didn't get a diploma and now are jealous.

I couldn't care less about the diploma either, but the time on university was definitely worth it. I learned many things, I had great time with friends, I made great contacts(I know some influent people now) and the most important, I started my first company during school and from what I learned there. I would be actually stuck with making $2k/month now without going to university, I had no motivation to do anything at all, just the regular 9-5 job would do it for me. I completely changed on the university, it pushed me to a different level.

I have a college degree in computers.... Everything I learned in college ten years ago no longer exists.....

And btw all my friends from school have a nice apartment/house right now(5 years after we finished) and a good job. My college friends(some kind of middle school here where I am) aren't doing that well, mostly going from one shitty job to another one with shitty payments.

SHIT.. I only got a GED, and look at my ass.. College Degrees are way over rated.

I know plenty of people with degrees that are waiters or are stocking shelves at grocery stores now..

yes i ammm sooo jealous that when i am losing an argument i cant point out "i have an MBA" or talk to people about "the course i am taking in university"

wtf is you people bragging about "the experience"? all my college buddies ate fucking rahman, lived in a place packed with 10 dorky kids, drank cheap beer and were to poor to go out.

nice expierience!!!

i been makin money for myself since i was 15 i didnt need a degree so i can go to people "i have a peice of paper" wow amazing!

I agree that college is "big business" in the US and that 50%+ of kids that go would be better off learning a trade or other vocation. However, studies still show that earning power over your lifetime is greatly increased with a college degree. The key is "over your lifetime." Sure, you can make more as a welder right out of high school - but will reach the ceiling quicker.

I don't have time to read everyone's opinions in this thread so forgive me if my post is redundant but I saw this thread title and felt that I needed to at least put in my 2 cents.

What you learn in a classroom is not useless regardless of the degree you choose to take, even if it is only a BA.

It does not guarantee you a certain salary, but what it gives you is the ability to prove to any potential employer that not only can you learn, but you can accept information that is presented to you in a critical manner, and then synthesize it together to make well thought out decisions on how to proceed.

In most places you need to have a university degree just to walk in the front door of a badly paid position and the 4 years experience you will have instead of a degree will mean jack if it is as a receptionist or laborer.

Having a degree basically does not guarantee a salary but it is a badge of honor that you can take to an employer and say.. look I can think and I can learn and this institution will back me up on that.

Say what you will about education but there are lot of people who could really use some. It would help them to post complete sentences, it would encourage them to completely read an email before replying to only part of it or it would perhaps help them to waste less time by doing things more efficiently after a little bit of research.

That said, you can be all of those things without an education, it is just much harder to prove it when a potential employer asks you to.

bingo my buddy is a computer engineer and i been helping him learn a little about online and now he has totally realized they are just teaching him shit to work a 9-5 and stare at a white board all day.

this friend has done a total 360 in the past 6 months.

he is completing his degree in germany but as i said before is going to south africa to sail sailboats. i am quite proud of him and am glad he saw how things really were before it was to late.

that was before, these days it is more of a global economy now, talk to me in 10 years when we are talking about todays time, you have people with degrees bar tending and working in warehouses.

china man has tooken over and if you think for 2 seconds big business cares about helping the "college kid" at home you are mistaken. they will import and export whatever the fuck is cheaper and which can fatten their wallets.

you are going to see a huge shift away from these averages.

I bet you $10k that the Chinese kid went to univ/college and got damn good grades.

Hmm.. No..

I definitely hung out with a few people are who are lazy and stupid...

You live in Calgary.. the average pay is higher.. companies are desperate to hire..

I know kids who didn't go to school and are making good money right now but that is after busting their ass for the same time they coulda been in school partying... and they had to start off working desperate jobs..

I know kids who went to univ for 4 years had all their bills paid and partied for the entire time came home and just plopped themselves in the same positions with a lot less effort..

Oil fields? well that accounts for a very broad range of jobs.. What specifically?

Maybe your friends who went to school are lazy and stupid?

Becoming a chef is based on skill level.. I will agree that if you have a skill and can work to gain experience and enhance your skill you don't need college or univ because the work experience can be much more important than what they teach in school..

He's lucky if he was able to get a job at a higher end restaurant to learn..

You are in Calgary a massive exception to the rule.. You guys are desperate to hire peopple..

Maybe that highend restaurant was desperate for a chef to help out and yer buddy lucked out?

But I guarantee that if he had no experience and went to school and got the training he needed first he could go to any city and get a better job and feel confident doing it.

Ever worked in a kitchen in a high end restaurant with no experience? heh.. he's boiling beans..

Yah so? Those kids getting jobs in 3rd world countries are the lucky ones that had $2.95 a month donated to them so they could go to SCHOOL.

I didn't go to college or univ.. I don't believe that YOU MUST go to school.

But for most people it is what they need to do.

We are lucky we have skills that can be self taught quite easily.. and can easily be shown and proved to a prospective employer..

Most employers want to see that paper. :thumbsup

I completely agree that working experience in a lot of fields will get you the job over school experience.

But getting that experience without going to school first is extremely difficult.

You would have to be an intern or work for free or have a connection.. etc..

And if you are an older person not a 18 - 24 yearold GOOD LUCK nobody will hire yer ass to teach you..

I don't have a degree, but I will only hire people that do. Not necessarily because I am biased, but because the resumes of people without a degree suck.

If you want to be an owner, school can hurt you (but not always.) If you plan on being an employee, you have to have one.

That said, don't be an idiot and crank up debt on classes you don't need. Do your 4 years and not one semester extra. Also don't spend $50k on a degree that will earn you $30k. Unfortunately most people don't bother to take the 15 minutes to figure this out..

this is probably the most well rounded post in the entire thread. :thumbsup

I would add sciences to that list as well as an accounting degree.

Most people that did well as bean counters in school had a pretty nice job coming out of school. Which while it might not be your dream job it does provide great experience in the business world. Never hurts to know how to count the monies.

Sciences if you are looking to go on to grad school and become a lab rat then school is very necessary and after you salve in a lab for your grad program you can stay in the academic world or turn to a nice paying industry job very easily.

For the most part I agree though.

Don't you think you are an exception to the rule?

Do you think that just because you kno people who have degrees but did nothing with them.... That going to college or univ is useless?

FACT: idiots with degrees do better than idiots without degrees. :))))

Average Starting Salary Offers for 2008 Bachelor's Degree Graduates

Samples of average starting salaries across a range of college degrees include:

* Accounting: $47,429
* Aerospace/Aeronautical/Astronautical Engineering: $57,999
* Agricultural Business and Management: $42,299
* Business Administration and Management: $44,195
* Chemical Engineering: $63,616
* Civil Engineering: $50,940
* Computer Engineering: $59,962
* Computer Science: $59,873
* Construction Science/Management: $52,745
* Electrical Engineering: $56,944
* Finance: $48,616
* Industrial/Manufacturing Engineering: $58,252
* Liberal Arts (group average): $35,378
* Management Information Systems (MIS): $50,800
* Marketing: $43,318
* Mechanical Engineering: $57,821
* Psychology: $34,054
* Sales: $44,005