Nail on the head.

You have been in the adult biz a lot longer than what I have so you know a lot more of what goes on and what is going wrong with paysites but what I said above is just how I see things in the adult biz. I wasent actually on about the pay per view model I was kinda getting at paysites selling memberships but like two day memberships for a couple of bucks instead of the 30 day memberships. I also still think that the more a paysite can be interactive the better it will do.

Not a fake nick. Just baffled by your ridiculous comparisons right from the first one between paying for

WATCHING A MOVIE ON A BIG SCREEN IN A THEATRE AS SOON AS IT'S RELEASED, AS A SOCIAL OUTING WITH FRIENDS vs. getting a torrent that someone recorded with a fucking handycam

to

Paying for porn vs. getting it for free off a torrent with the same quality.

:uhoh

Or your statement about piracy not being new... are you fucking kidding me? Piracy used to be the UNDERGROUND of the internet, unknown to most, difficult to find and use for the average computer user. I remember this kid that used to sell pirated software on CDs in highschool and the clowns that he would sell stuff to wouldn't even be able to figure out how to unrar the archives and burn an ISO :1orglaugh . Now - New age piracy (torrent/tube sites) rank about 10x higher and get 10-100x more traffic than most mainstream/legit sites, and are readily findable on google - and any clown that has had a computer for a couple of years doesn't have any problem configuring his pirated material.

People that pirate would never buy anyway???? Another ridiculous fucking statement... I'd say there are 3 most likely scenarios of a porn surfer - 1. has pirated, and will always pirate (never buy) - 2. used to buy, but figured out how to satisfy his needs without buying - 3. doesn't know how to get pirated stuff, or just prefers to buy.

We are in a time where the second scenario is a LOT larger than when your statement would have held some ground in the 90s.

and casinos are going bankrupt.. the world is coming to an end

True that.

There is a diff with casinos people only spend what they want to spend unless they are addicted to gambling. :winkwink:

Still a fake nick..

Yeah, it's different.. It's a movie, it's clean, it's sound is good. But people that will pirate, will still pirate it. And related to this topic - the movie is worth the $40 to the theater, and $20 for the dvd. The porno DVD being $40 too, is why they are hurting, even why most movies are hurting, both are over priced.

Piracy, isn't hurting either and that was the point.

Piracy is still as underground today as it was 10 years ago. 10 years ago I got a newsgroup account with my dial up account that exposed me to piracy. From here I moved into IRC, never using it before but quickly figured it out. Then password sites, which also almost killed our industry (haha)..

So we are both pirates, welcome to the group. Do you still buy software, movies, music? I have never purchased porn so I can't relate on that end.

I didn't say people never buy anyway, read again. Oh and don't forget about people that will continue to buy porn, even after they found piracy. Or people that think piracy is illegal and won't do it, just like some won't download music because they are scared of the mpaa. Minor few, but enough.

Well apart form it's shittier and less artists get promotion than ever I need to do a bit of research

So if I will try to find any logic at all:

Here we are in 2008, say I'll take a million of guys with a broadband that are straight, gay, bi, weird but not asexual and they just NEED porn, cause, as we know ourselves sex and its visuals is kind of in demand by every healthy male. I don't care if they hack in Korea, Australia, States or Belarus.

You have all those great tools all the great sites with asses bigger than your screen, billing that will charge your credit card before you even pull it out, you can bill more people than ever worldwide, geo filter traffic, trade it all around the place with other marketers, all this shit and all this perks to get the most out of the business.

Instead of trying to take advantage of that you just put up 25 000 full length scenes that are ripped off and playable by any broadband pc, burn tons of bandwith and send one half of the guys over there to get every 50 000 visitor not only to do his free "branding" and send all his mates links for free porn but also to pay for something?

Where is the logic behind this?

As far as I definitely agree greed is a big motor in this and there will be always a lot of screwing going on once it will be allowed and tolerated, I can't see the ingenious logic of "branding" behind it, I can't see any logic at all, just greed.

Logic is... It will happen either way, we can't stop it, we can't even slow it down, we can't sue to stop it, it's here and it will always be here. So now what?

Since we are talking about our business being hurt by piracy, otherwise what's the point of talking about it? Anyway, our industry has and does WAY more things to kill it, than piracy ever will.

We hit parties, shows, events, and promote programs that have fucked this industry over every way possible. I can't even list all the ways, it's so extreme.

Piracy, pfft. That's my logic.

Well I have to agree that, after all, without being financed by certain sponsor programs itself all those illegal tube sites wouldn't even exist anymore.

I just meant to adress that I really don't see any value in branding the product by a free giveaway to a mass audience and get one sale out of 100 000 satisfied views instead of just teasing them with it and get 1 sale per 1000 views.

I don't care if millions are beating off to it and like it, we're in it for money.

Thanks for the tip.

Most illegal tubes are owned by sponsors or have been purchased by them, the major ones at least. Can't speak for all the small ones.

You aren't giving away your product for free, it's being stolen. You aren't trying to make a free business model, just happens piracy is creating part of one. Sucks?

Conversion wise, if you look the traffic a "gallery" gets vs the sales it produces, the ratio is just as bad/good as Tube/Piracy traffic. Other than password traffic which sucks ass but is great for trading out for fresh traffic.

All how you use the traffic, it all converts. Piracy isn't what killing our sales just like password sites didn't them.

Be back in a few hours.

Haha, I love the haters.

I'm actually very proud of myself.. I have been here since 2001, I think... and I think 3 people have put me on ignore. I fucking love it - more bitches, more! Let me know I'm striking a nerve!

Sales off 10 - 15%? Who gives a shit...

Motorhome sales are off 80%... SUV sales 35%... Gas sales are off....

Just like liquor and cigarettes we will get hit the least...

Hmm... How did you get off of ignore.... hmm...

All this hurting and year over year comparisons on my ledger show me still 25%+ more revenue vs. last year.... go figure...

:throwup @ that pic

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/...TQyNDE1Wj.html

CD sales are falling.

Live shows, endorsements, etc. are growing. Music sales, however, are most definitely not.

Downloading a porn scene in decent enough quality to jerk off to takes far less time than downloading a dvd iso. Which is why you can't compare the movie industry with the adult industry.

If people follow the news at all, they know people are getting sued for downloading music. For many older people, that's scary enough not to do it.

Look at the amount of people who get their computers infected with easy to avoid trojans, viruses and adware. A fair amount of these people don't even know that it is in fact possible to connect their computers to their tv.

Are you really this bloody clueless?

There's a decent amount of people who will pirate if it's possible and relatively easy, but will buy if that's the only simple option. Just look at college students, who download music instead of buying cds these days.

It lowers sales because a specific group of consumers will be disinclined to buy when pirating is a real option. Other groups of people might not know that they can easily download the same stuff, are afraid of getting sued, like the convenience of buying, etc.

It really isn't that fucking hard to figure out :disgust

you are not allowed to tell the truth on this board, sales are GREAT, ask any program owner

GET OUTTA MAH HEAD!!! :thumbsup

Couldnt agree with you more, Doc.

CD sales can fall all day, doesn't mean the music industry is hurting. Just like Tapes died off, just another cycle that they don't want to deal with.



[QUOTE=Libertine;14500234]Downloading a porn scene in decent enough quality to jerk off to takes far less time than downloading a dvd iso. Which is why you can't compare the You can watch all movies online (porn and mainstream) on Tube sites now. Streaming flash movies, broken into sections, that even 56k dialup users can watch. And old people, don't buy porn - and young people, don't give a shit either way. Guess we are screwed all around.



Just like people don't know how to download porn, or use torrents, or pirate, or even where to get pirated content. So they have no need or care to watch it on the TV. However, the growth of TV watching (legal) online has grown by huge leaps and bounds, enough that advertisers are moving over.

Clueless? You just explained what I said. Some people will always pirate, will you be able to stop that? Hell no, but they may talk, they may recommend, they can rave about how good something was, even porn - even more so if we are talking about college students.

So if piracy is going to happen either way, what do you do? You do as you always did and you go get more fresh traffic. Stop thinking so small and closed minded. As if every person online is going to find your pirated content, even know it's pirated, or be willing to anything but spend money on it. And pirated traffic is worth $$ too, it can make sales, be exchanged out and make sales or for fresh traffic which draws in sales.

You guys act like every scene, every site, and every person is taking part in Piracy, when the true amount of people is so low to the global scale of surfers, you guys hurt my head by thinking so small.

find new revenue streams. find new avenues to fill them.

people do not like change. tough shit.

it's happening. ride the wave or face plant into the coral below the water.

simple as that.

CD sales are falling, paid digital downloads aren't rising quickly enough to compensate for the drop, neither is income from touring.

Watching porn on a streamed flash site is perfectly doable. Watching blockbuster movies with lots of special effects in that quality, however, is a waste of time.

And actually, old people do buy porn.

Many don't know how to download porn from tubes sites and torrents, true. Those are the ones who keep buying. It's why the adult industry will continue to have a fairly large base of paying customers.

People who pirate porn and then recommend it will typically send a link to the torrent or tube site. Or they'll upload it to rapidshare for others to watch.

If piracy is going to happen either way, what you do is this: make less money than you would make without piracy.

It's not about *every* person. It's about a percentage of people. A percentage of people that would have bought otherwise will download for free if possible.

And sure, you can make money and grow your business even if the industry as a whole loses business.

http://www.alexa.com/site/ds/top_sit...ntry&lang=none

Like I said, you're clueless.

Try and see this in terms of percentages rather than booleans. It's not an all or nothing situation. It's just a significant negative influence on sales.

I was the same 1:250 from the join page last week that I am for the lifetime of my paysite. Anyone who wants to promote semi-nude Asians that convert can just email me at my email address

Music is bigger than ever and growing faster than ever. Just because our lame music industry is hurting does not mean globally it is. Half our bands suck total ass and don't deserve to be on the radio, in stores, or being paid shit.

Music is going nuts... finally we are able to find and listen to music we want to listen too and not be forced trash that repeats 10000 times. More bands are being recognized around the world that ever and slowly the trash is being taken out.

Waste of time? Mainstream movie piracy is far larger than porn piracy, in every way.

Exactly, just like they download music.


Ok, we have plenty of people that will buy, I know this.

That's again assuming people who look at pirated content don't purchase. People are looking for free porn, and find piracy, use it, and don't know it was pirated.



Yeah, everyone knows that.... but you seem to just be ignoring the fact that it isn't going away, either way.

Correct, and the percentage of people that only download/steal pirate "porn", and never buy, is very very small to the global scale of online surfers at any given time.

The "online porn industry" is leveling off, not taking a dive. The U.S. porn market, is taking a dive, in some areas. Even posting Alexa, tells me you don't have a single clue as what is really going on.

I can tell you one simple and major reason why U.S. "hosted" (not companies) took several major dives over the last 3 years. Google, straight up. Twice the de-listed most of the U.S. hosted adult sites, along with others. At this point, regional search kicked in even larger. Along with these, came major penalties for 1000's of top/clean adult sites - some still have not recovered.

So instead of actually killing our industry, they evened it out, 3 different times, across the globe. You can see statistical drops "in alexa" and see just about every major free adult site (tgp/mpg) and paysites, took massive deadly hits during those times. Even Yahoo has done some serious cleaning, removing millions of affiliate links, that all did drive in traffic/sales. However, the International market, well they grew, about the same % we lost.

I know what the hell is going on and what has happened. I know the U.S. porn market was on a statistical down slide 1.5 years before Tubes/Torrents became an issue, and DVD sales have been on a slide for 10+ years. I know why it happened, I know every down turn that has taken place.

Piracy... it's a tiny dot in the grand scale of things. You are thinking to small.