Originally Posted by RageCash-Ben (Post 14615579)

dog snobs?

You may not your pet out of your sight/house but a great many people do.If domestic pets aren't spayed the result is a huge amount of unwanted domestic animals. Lets not forget hundreds of thousands of dogs and cats are killed needlessly every year.

Originally Posted by RageCash-Ben (Post 14615579)

dog snobs?

You may not your pet out of your sight/house but a great many people do.If domestic pets aren't spayed the result is a huge amount of unwanted domestic animals. Lets not forget hundreds of thousands of dogs and cats are killed needlessly every year.

Originally Posted by ******* (Post 14612662)

Even though I eat animals I think they should always be treated in a humane manner regardless if they are on a farm, wild, or living in your home.

Originally Posted by sltr (Post 14613307)

great idea!

here's a pic of my little guy enjoying the sunset-

http://www.dvdhotties.com/images/beach3.jpg

Originally Posted by LadyMischief (Post 14614276)

a male can mate anytime, with any female, anywhere. And if they can, THEY WILL.

Originally Posted by sltr (Post 14615700)

little late on that *fact* there eh, at least in good ole u.s.a.

maybe that's the case down under but check out the current facts and don't buy the hype that you see in mainstream marketing.

again- it's laughable how many of the dog snobs feel the need to *educate* me on getting my dog's balls clipped.

Originally Posted by RageCash-Ben (Post 14616797)

Over 4 million healthy, adoptable animals were euthanized in the United States in 2007. Theres some current facts for you.

Originally Posted by RageCash-Ben (Post 14616797)

Over 4 million healthy, adoptable animals were euthanized in the United States in 2007. Theres some current facts for you.

Originally Posted by sltr (Post 14617240)

yup, and the real fact that you fail to know is that # is proven to be a result of poor shelter management. period.

fact is research shows 90% of sheltered pets are "savable"

the city of san francisco proved that in the 90s.

Originally Posted by sltr (Post 14617161)

hypocritical how you portray yourselves to be full of goodness and love and *save the dogs* sentiment all while treating me like you have done in this thread.

it's people like y'all that sprung the phrase

"a dog is a man's best friend."

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh (Post 14617893)

I give up.

Originally Posted by sltr (Post 14617899)

thank god.:thumbsup

you dog snobs are impossible to get off your high horse soap boxes.

Originally Posted by sltr (Post 14617842)

i'm going to point out the obvious to you since you are unable to see it on your own.

not once have any of you asked the simple question-

why aren't you getting your dog's balls clipped?

you've just instantly attacked with name calling and assumptions

not once have any of you inquired as to my overall pet parenting skills.

(see the op's original post of the 10 pet commandments, spay/neuter is just 1 of them)
that's where the real problem with pets lies- overall parenting.

in fact, every one of the dog snobs comments have been to call me an idiot uneducated dolt lacking in common sense and not having the basic ability to care for my own pet and blaming others with a "it won't happen to me" attitude and how dare i not agree with you. although i never once stated any of that and i've proven in pictures and comments that those assumptions are wrong yet none of you can accept that either.

furthermore, everyone of you has been unable to acknowledge the simple fact that a valid decision/argument position must include the pros & cons, none of you have recognized ANY cons to the procedure- not one single negative.
anyone with a bit of high schooling and esp. anyone with some college knows that is required.

the worst part of every one of your assumptions is that you assume that because i don't accept the dog parenting advice on an ADULT MESSAGE BOARD that i'm a dolt/idiot/uneducated irresponsible dog owner.

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh (Post 14617893)

I give up. Fortunately there are people like me to try to clean up the messes caused by people like you. It's upsetting how many of you there are.

I'm being 100% serious about volunteering at your local shelter. If you truly believe what you have said in this thread, I beg you to go help with the problems that people who share your attitude have caused.

Originally Posted by sltr (Post 14614431)

fyi, for the elitists.

it's clearly not a cut&dry issue.

yet, the name calling and *uneducated* comments are from that side.

--


Twenty years and more ago, pet sterilization was hailed as the only way to keep unwanted litters from clogging shelters and ultimately dying there to make room for even more unwanted litters. In the past decade the tide has turned: shelters have instituted their own sterilization policies and animal welfare advocates have conducted highly successful campaigns to decrease the number of unplanned and unwanted litters.

As a result of rescue and shelter sterilization policies, education about the practical aspects of the surgery, and an aggressive campaign by responsible breeders, veterinarians, and welfare groups, about 75 percent of dogs have been spayed or castrated and canine populations in shelters have dropped.

However, this decrease is not enough for radical groups.

research indicates that the health benefits of sterilization may be offset by the drawbacks and that owners should be aware of potential problems that can occur as a direct result of the surgery.

Neutering a dog reduces production of testosterone but does not eliminate this hormone. Thus a neutered dog, especially if he has a dominant character, may also retain his desire to roam and an assertive or even aggressive personality. Owners who depend on neutering to resolve behavior problems run a high risk of being disappointed unless they also train the pet to have good manners at home and in public.

Any surgery has drawbacks. Dogs can react badly to anesthesia in spite of precautions or can experience complications during recovery. Some dogs react negatively to the suture material used, and incisions do not heal properly.

Concurrent with the increase in laws and regulations regarding pet sterilization, research since 1990 has shown that spay and neuter surgeries may have specific drawbacks as well as benefits. Dogs neutered before puberty tend to have longer legs, flatter chests, and narrower skulls that intact dogs of their breeds because the hormones that regulate sexual activity also interact with hormones that guide growth of muscles, bones, and tendons. These physical differences can place more stress on joints and can cause problems for active dogs, especially those in training for agility and those that work in physically stressful jobs.

Additional drawbacks specific to spay surgery include increased incidence of bladder incontinence, triple the frequency of thyroid disease, and higher risk of some cancers, joint problems, and obesity and adverse reactions to vaccinations.

POINTS AGAINST STERILIZATION

1. Dogs may gain weight after being altered.

It is true that some animals may tend to gain weight after they are sterilized (Fettman 1997, Root 1995). The removal of the sex hormones may tend to slow an animal's metabolism somewhat (Flynn 1996), although some studies have found no differences in weight between intact and sterilized animals (Salmeri 1991a).

However, many dogs are altered just as they are reaching maturity. At this time in their lives, even dogs who are NOT altered will be gaining weight and slowing down a bit, so any change you see in your pet may not have anything to do with being sterilized. If you DO notice a weight gain after your dog is altered, simply decrease the amount of food you are feeding and increase the exercise your dog gets every day.

2. Altered dogs may be taller than intact dogs.

It is true that dogs who are sterilized before they have reached full maturity may be slightly taller than they would be if they had been left intact. Sex hormones influence the end of bone growth after puberty. Since the sex hormones never arrive in dogs which are altered before maturity, the bones tend to continue growing for longer than they would in the intact dog. However, this difference is very slight overall -- and the dogs being altered are NOT show dogs, so a little extra height is of little significance. Also, there does not appear to be any difference in size between puppies sterilized very early (6-10 weeks) and those altered later (7 months) (Crenshaw 1995, Lieberman 1987).

3. Sterilized dogs may become incontinent.

Some altered dogs may develop a problem with controlling their urine output. This is especially likely in females, but may also happen in males (Aaron 1996, Arnold 1997a). It is thought that this problem arises because the loss of sex hormones affects the strength of the urinary sphincter muscle (Gregory 1994). One researcher has claimed that incontinence may occur in as many as 20% of all spayed dogs (Arnold 1997a), but other vets believe this rate is much lower (Thrusfield 1993).

Fortunately, the problem may be as minor as a few drops here and there, and it is usually easy to control with inexpensive drugs such as phenylpropanolamine (Arnold 1997b, Heughebaert 1988). Sometimes estrogen replacement may be necessary. Incontinence problems may last for the rest of the dog's life. However, incontinence may also disappear after a few months or a few years (Heughebaert 1988, Arnold 1989). Also, keep in mind that older dogs will sometimes develop incontinence even if they are left intact, so incontinence is not always related to sterilization.

4. Sterilized dogs are more likely to have problems with hypothyroidism.

A few dogs, especially bitches, may be more likely to have problems with decreased thyroid function after they are altered (Panciera 1994). Fortunately, thyroid problems are easy to treat with inexpensive thyroid supplements. Also, some intact dogs will also experience hypothyroidism, so most cases of hypothyroidism are not actually due to being sterilized.

5. Bitches who are aggressive before being spayed may become more aggressive after being spayed.

This appears to be a valid concern for owners of aggressive bitches (O'Farrell 1990). However, it's an easy problem to avoid. If you have an intact bitch who is already aggressive, think seriously about letting her remain intact. If your intact bitch is NOT aggressive, spaying her is not likely to MAKE her aggressive.

6. Sterilization, especially spaying, is an invasive surgical procedure.

There are risks involved with any surgery, both from the surgery itself and from the anesthetic agent. However, the rate of complications is very low, and serious complications are especially rare. Especially with newer anesthetic agents like isofluorane and newer suture materials, there are rarely any serious problems. Significant complications of sterilization surgeries occur in roughly only 1-4% of surgeries (Pollari 1995, 1996). Also, the surgical procedure actually appears to be *safer* when performed in younger puppies, with less serious complications occurring overall in young puppies than in puppies altered at later ages (Fagella 1994).

7. Sterilization is expensive.

Surgical costs may be as low as $25 or as high as $300, depending on the size and age of the dog, whether the dog is male or female, and the area of the country in which you live. There are low cost spay/neuter clinics in many areas these days for people who can't otherwise afford the procedures. And in some areas you will actually SAVE money by sterilizing your dog, if licensing fees are lower for altered pets.

8. The size of the external genitals may be smaller in dogs who are sterilized before puberty.

The penis of the male and the vagina of the female may be somewhat smaller in dogs who have been altered before puberty (Salmeri 1991a, 1991b). However, it is usually of little functional consequence to the dog. In a breed which is predisposed to urinary tract blockage, such as male dalmatians, this may be a problem; but in most breeds this is not likely to cause any medical complications. Very occasionally, bitches who were altered at very young ages may develop some skin irritation in the vulvar region (Jagoe 1988), but this also is not a common occurrence.

Originally Posted by LadyMischief (Post 14618170)

Did you read what you put here yourself? :)

Originally Posted by MOxxx (Post 14608611)

4)Treat me kindly, my beloved friend, for no heart in all the
world is more grateful for your kindness than mine. Don't be
angry with me for long, and don't lock me up as punishment.
After all, you have your job, your friends, your
entertainment, I only have you.

Originally Posted by Anna_Miller (Post 14612737)

Aww.. I'm going to go hang out with my dogs now!

Originally Posted by Zuzana Designs (Post 14970825)

I just gave kisses to all my babys :)