Europeans Billing Europe!
 

Good to see some quality programs participating in this thread :thumbsup

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If you guys honestly "cared" about your surfers / members, you would send them email notices before they were about to rebill, just to remind them.

A caring site owner would not want to bill them again for a membership they forgot about, right?

Ohhhh silly me, this is OK and acceptable. Let them forget about the rebill, that's how we make a lot of money. Our companies count on these forgotten rebills. My bad. Sorry for being so stupid.

Anyways, FreakBucks.com has some bas ass niche sites. I joined once, was impressed. I think it was BigFatFreaks.com or something like that.

Thank you :thumbsup

And I process with epoch & ccbill, which send out emails to the customer when a rebill is made if I am not mistakened? (I am not 100% sure about this, will have to double check) So if they do forget they will receive a email.
Being rebilled for a site they joined and clearly stated that it would renew is not as bad as being billed for 3-5 other sites that they never heard of and which do not even have a working website.

CCbill and Epoch send out a mailer AFTER the transaction has taken place. I was saying there should be a mailer sent out BEFORE the transaction happens to remind them of their membership. Of course I suggest this for those who honestly care about their members.

Rebills are a part of our industry, I count on them as does everyone else, but I do think they are a little shady. Always have. I think this because there is nothing to notify you BEFORE you are about to be billed again. Everyone says "the rebills are clearly marked and the customer can read this" yet that same argument doesn't hold up on x-sales, even though the text is right on the page for the consumer to read.

Of course it's not as bad as being signed up for more sites you don't even know about, though it is on the shady list. Once you get mail from the biller it's too late. Doh!

Another VERY SHADY practice is to offer tour and billing in multiple languages but offer NO support in those languages. WTF is that? So the sites will gladly take the consumers money but when it comes time to cancel, he's on his own. This is very shady.

Then of course you can argue if we are feeding porn and internet addiction. I think we are in many cases. We all profit from it. That's not good, but we do it and look the other way not even thinking about it. Shady.

It's all bad if you ask me. But I'm ok with that. The world is shady as are many businesses if you really look into them. Someone is always getting exploited. :2 cents:

About the recurring charge for the site they joined...
-Yep, they send it after the transaction but 1 phone call or email stating you dont want this membership anymore and you are credited... but these sites I am talking about you will be lucky to get in touch with their billing support and if you do after going back and forth many many times, you will be told that your info is being added to a blacklist and you will never be able to join any adult website again...
But goodluck receiving a credit from them.

-About the language tours, my sites dont have that problem :)


Anyways, someone who joins a site then gets a bill for $200+ and all the other crap they will go thru... they definetly will never join a site again.
Once some affiliates do join some of these sites themselves and end up getting screwed even knowing what not to do, they will definetly not want to send their bookmarkers there.

There's no revshare option?

You should've put "pics" in the title....

fiddy concerned webmasters...

Perhaps. If it is the FIRST site they ever join, for fucking sure they will never join another. But if they are regular porn consumers, they will continue to buy porn. It's not different than the Johns who get arrested picking up hookers on the street. Just about every one of them go back and do it again, even though they got burned once or twice before. People smoke knowing it causes cancer, some smoke even after they beat cancer once. People fuck without rubbers knowing they can catch HIV. People drink and drive and some drink and drive after they have been arrested for it before. People just don't learn (or they do learn the extreme hard way), that is our problem. And people with addiction can't stop and that is the case for many porn consumers.

Sure, it all gives the industry a black eye, but it hardly is the industries worst enemy at the moment. It's just easy to blame slagging sales on something so transparent as this and say it's hurting your bottom line, when in reality we have no real proof what it is hurting, if at all. What I do know is I've seen some stats from a couple of companies who aggressively use these x-sales and their rebill numbers were in the 1000s (as in several thousand) per day. Huge numbers. So if it's all so bad, why did so many members stick around? There must be a logical answer and that is more than likely than these consumers did not fall for the "trickery" that everyone says is ruining the industry. So if 5000+ members a day (rebills I'm talking) did not fall for this practice that is killing us all, I have to assume based on the numbers alone that it's not as bad as it may appear on the outside. And keep in mind, these numbers are just from two companies I've seen stats for. There are MANY with these numbers (and higher) that use the same business model. How would you explain this? It is possible I am missing something obvious.

My point is, there is no proof if anything. There are theories and thoughts, that's it. Maybe it's the x-sales, maybe it's the tubes, maybe it's just porn saturation, maybe it's the slow economy, maybe people have just become to desensitized to porn that they have lost interest. Who knows? Nobody does, and that is something we need not forget. Until someone can show me hard proof that any of that (tubes, x-sales and so on) is the reason for slowing sales, I have to have an open mind about it and look at everything objectively. I'm a simple guy but I base much of my life on facts. I need facts in order to make a rational decision. Obviously most of you don't, and that's ok, I do understand we are all programmed different and the is one of the glorious things about being human.

Agreed. I think any affiliate who doesn't look at the site he/she is pushing, is leaving the possibilities wide open for many problems. You should be able to sign up to a program, get your account approved (not automatic) and then get a 1 day pass to the site(s) so you can see what you are promoting. Like once they approve your account, you automatically are sent a temp user/pass. THAT would be great.

Whatever pic he would have posted, I'd hit it.

Amazing that everyone is not honest like Freak Bucks.

DirtyWhiteBoy you raise some good points. Yes it's all guess work and maybe you think the customers like to get a bill they did not expect. I'm sure you love to buy something for $10 and find a bill for $100 and you keep going back to the store that did this. The rest of us would never go near it again.

Think about this for a moment. If the rebills are customers who want to belong to a site then they are logging in and enjoying it and all is good. If it's customers who forgot to cancel and no longer want to belong to that site they will eventually see the bill and think WTF did I do that for? Then the next time they will think twice about joining, or maybe more than twice.

If it's someone who wants porn but not from that site he joins another site. Maybe one of yours. He's a happy confident buyer who will keep coming back. And this is how we have to think of our customers. They are repeat buyers whose only impulse is what porn to buy today. If we keep thinking of them as one off impulse buyers who we can rip off for as much as possible because they won't come back. Then they won't come back. Maybe you w9ould but they won't. Because today they don't have to, They think tubes are a better supplier of porn for most of them.

The thing is sales are falling and as an industry we need to put everything right and stop thinking short term greed. Because that is what got us here.

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You would not see any of the worst crap that is happening that way... the only way you would see it would be by signing up for a trial and seeing everything that happens to you/your card after you join.


And as for proof about if this is hurting repeat sales...
The last porn site I joined to just check it out (couple months back or so), I made sure to uncheck the xsells and look for all the semi hidden xsells and uncheck them etc... Yet I was still tricked into being charged $40 extra than I should have been, with no working support or a way to cancel. I was left to just call my card company to resolve it... I wasted a shit load of time to have that $40 refunded and be made sure that it would not keeping rebilling.
Because of going thru all that, as much I want to checkout a site and see what they are cooking in the members area, I rather not go thru all that again.
So if I a webmaster knowing what to look for etc feels like this then you can imagine how a regular surfer would say "fuck it, not going thru all that again, let me just watch them free vids on some tube site."

You sure? I would have posted this one lol...

http://sexandthereviews.com/sneakpeak/IMG_3282.JPG

It puts the lotion on it's skin? :helpme:helpme:helpme

Nah the skin would look better.. I think she managed to crawl out of the well.

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