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-   Fucking Around & Business Discussion (https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26)
-   -   12clicks' Position On Cross Sales (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=854572)

Smooth J. 09-15-2008 01:11 PM
200 hits 12clicks got today to his program.

Brujah 09-15-2008 01:12 PM
For what it's worth, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on the subject BV and I'm sure a lot of lurkers reading the thread will be signing up and sending sales your way.

http://www.bvcash.com/

Smooth J. 09-15-2008 01:15 PM
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...2xbigcocks.com

:1orglaugh

Lets listen to 12scum everyone, he knows his shit :1orglaugh

12xbigcocks.com has a traffic rank of: 4,56114,375 :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

How much is that? 12 hits a day roughly?

BV 09-15-2008 01:19 PM
dp3456789

BV 09-15-2008 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 14759089)
to further point out how out of your depth you are, Loryn works with cross sales. she wasn't duped by anything.
you're completely clueless.
i have lost track what Loryn does now, sorry , I just like tall left handed blondes that love pussy cats.

12clicks 09-15-2008 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14759189)
i have lost track what Loryn does now, sorry , I just like tall left handed blondes that love pussy cats.
then why don't we agree to disagree and let it go?

12clicks 09-15-2008 01:30 PM
er, uh, I didn't mean the lefthanded blond part.

BV 09-15-2008 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 14759082)
ahahahahahaha.
lets just leave this quote out here on its own genius!:1orglaugh
well keep it in context then.

i was doing cross sales maybe before you were. I did mine in early 2003, maybe 2002. I'd have to research it to give you an exact date.

at that time you were probably already a multi millionaire 10 times over. from shitting money out your ass.

but anyways none the less i was doing them. unchecked ones,

unchecked ones, checked ones, it doesn't matter in regards to my argument here and what i have beef with,

let me tell you something, i can do this all day also

this business and it's model are all i have and i will fight you tooth and nail on it

this is how a democracy works

I would much rather have a debate about this face to face in front of an audience. :2 cents:

BV 09-15-2008 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 14759207)
then why don't we agree to disagree and let it go?
because this isn't just about me

this is also about CCBill affiliates and how I believe that this could hurt CCBill's super great reputation that they have towards protecting affiliates

i don't like that they are even allowing this

i think it will come back to haunt them

and they know how i feel about this

but if you want to take a break

court will readjourn in a few hours

BV 09-15-2008 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 14759122)
For what it's worth, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on the subject BV and I'm sure a lot of lurkers reading the thread will be signing up and sending sales your way.

http://www.bvbucks.com/ http://www.bvcash.com
No worries Brujah, thanks

I'm just fighting for what I believe in.

Relentless 09-15-2008 02:08 PM
Saying a program should not pay out a 'true 50%' and saying affiliates should be in favor of it because they need to help out programs during 'tough times' is two totally different things... and frankly you know it.

Affiliates should send their traffic where it earns them the most money. Sponsors should pay as little for traffic as they can without lying to or deceiving their affiliates. The 'tough times - would you rather make 0% from an out of business sponsor' remark was bullshit... and you know it was bullshit. :2 cents:

notoldschool 09-15-2008 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth J. (Post 14759115)
200 hits 12clicks got today to his program.
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:2 cents:

12clicks 09-15-2008 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14759343)
because this isn't just about me

this is also about CCBill affiliates and how I believe that this could hurt CCBill's super great reputation that they have towards protecting affiliates

i don't like that they are even allowing this

i think it will come back to haunt them

and they know how i feel about this

but if you want to take a break

court will readjourn in a few hours

hahaha, now you want to take your scary guess work and imagine you know more than ccbill?

hahaha. you just get better and better.

here's a clue, anything you want to talk to ccbill about, go direct it to them. I do not represent them in any way and to the best of my knowledge, I am not working with any ccbill revshare companies.


but that said, clueless joe, this *is* about you. its only about you.
I'm putting more money in a program's pocket. They can choose to put that money in their affiliates pocket or not.
Sorry you're being hurt by the business model but when you think of all the programs, gateways, processors, banks, etc. involved with and approving of cross sales, you're simply out of your league.

regardless of how much you think you know.

12clicks 09-15-2008 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relentless (Post 14759416)
Saying a program should not pay out a 'true 50%' and saying affiliates should be in favor of it because they need to help out programs during 'tough times' is two totally different things... and frankly you know it.

Affiliates should send their traffic where it earns them the most money. Sponsors should pay as little for traffic as they can without lying to or deceiving their affiliates. The 'tough times - would you rather make 0% from an out of business sponsor' remark was bullshit... and you know it was bullshit. :2 cents:
as Robbie so eloquently pointed out, your idea of "true 50%" is nothing of the sort.

Relentless 09-15-2008 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 14759458)
as Robbie so eloquently pointed out, your idea of "true 50%" is nothing of the sort.
My idea of 'true 50%' is completely accurate. I'm well aware of the other methods programs use to amp up revenue from a sale. That is not a surprise to any affiliate with a brain in their head.

Arguing there is nothing wrong with that is fine. Arguing that in the long run it's actually to the affiliate's advantage because it's 'tough out there' is bullshit.... as if it would be even better if programs paid 5% instead of 50% because that would make them more stable *for the affiliate*. :1orglaugh

Bake 09-15-2008 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BV (Post 14759357)
No worries Brujah, thanks

I'm just fighting for what I believe in.
BV can you show any real facts that cross sales have affected rebills not just your retroact assumptions.
You have been working this thread by pretending you have some moral high ground and your above making money from affiliates and not giving them a slice etc.
Please show by any means how cross sales hurt affiliates bottom line?
You have not answered any real questions or shown any facts to substantiate your alligations. You have done nothing more than chest beating and trying to drum up some new affiliates who may believe that you are a nice high moral standards guy who wont cheat them.

BV 09-15-2008 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bake (Post 14760027)
BV can you show any real facts that cross sales have affected rebills not just your retroact assumptions.
You have been working this thread by pretending you have some moral high ground and your above making money from affiliates and not giving them a slice etc.
Please show by any means how cross sales hurt affiliates bottom line?
You have not answered any real questions or shown any facts to substantiate your alligations. You have done nothing more than chest beating and trying to drum up some new affiliates who may believe that you are a nice high moral standards guy who wont cheat them.
It would take some serious digging and remember this was 5 years ago.

But just use logic.

Can we all agree that 10 pre-checked cross sales would affect your ratio a lot.

So then 5 would also affect it somewhat, or 2 or 1 just a little.

What is so hard to figure out?

I mean I don't know, I asked you a simple question and you wouldn't answer it because it's so obvious.

You know you would not want the cross sales on the form if you were going revshare. That's a no brainer and I don't believe you answered me honestly. If you did then I'm sorry.

It doesn't take a rocket science to figure out that any size affiliate doesn't want a bunch of traffic leaks they don't get credit for.

That's part of the revshare holly grail of things not to do.

and sorry yes I will live by those rules

it has gotten me this far

and that affiliate that sent this sale: http://www.bikinivoyeur.com/ccbill-cap.jpg

he still sends me traffic, to the same site, after all these years, so yes in my mind i believe when you do right by people they do right by you.

his cut is over $800.00 bucks so far and still going. on just that one sale.

QuickBuck_Natalie 09-15-2008 07:15 PM
Hi BV!

I thought maybe I should chime in since it seems like the trendy thing to do is to post about cross sells :)

I agree with you BV and we think that revshare is supposed to be a partnership too (no xsells on quickbuck revshare join forms, never have been, never will be), we definitely see decreased retention from cross sells, especially lately with the credit crunch...that's just us though, what do we know?

We buy and sell a few cross sells, but we're tiny compared to some people.

Plus if the cross sell you're adding to your join pages is a shorter trial length than your own trial length, there is a great big chance that the customer will run out of credit before it's time for you to rebill them on the main purchase.

I hope you found my post informative, please don't piss on me :)

XBIZ JenM 09-16-2008 11:59 AM
Great Post!!

Matt 26z 03-02-2013 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 14744715)
there has been way too much lumping together of properly done cross sales with the hidden, shady cross sale practices that we all know are going on.
I heard there was a guy here on GFY selling children's game sites as a pre-checked porn cross sale.

2013 03-02-2013 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 26z (Post 19508856)
I heard there was a guy here on GFY selling children's game sites as a pre-checked porn cross sale.
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

EddyTheDog 03-02-2013 08:32 PM
Quote:
I'm currently working with some of the biggest most ethical companies in our business and there's a reason for that. If you're a program owner who's interested in cross sales, contact me and find out why.
How things change.....

mechanicvirus 03-02-2013 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 26z (Post 19508856)
I heard there was a guy here on GFY selling children's game sites as a pre-checked porn cross sale.
Is this true? Isn't this a violation of federal law?

arock10 03-02-2013 08:37 PM
Adapt or die

The Ghost 03-02-2013 09:03 PM
Old thread ... interesting to see who's still around and who's not.

Penny24Seven 03-02-2013 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechanicvirus (Post 19508866)
Is this true? Isn't this a violation of federal law?
he is doing it the other way around LOL you get the kids game after you join the porn site, like buying a porn dvd and inside it comes with a bonus elmo movie haha

Markul 03-03-2013 04:20 AM
lol I read half the first page before realizing this was an ancient thread... how things change indeed.

Barry-xlovecam 03-03-2013 05:05 AM
Did you ever stop to think why you must check the box on an internet form to indicate that you agree with or accept the terms of use or sale?

Matt 26z 03-03-2013 06:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19509200)
Did you ever stop to think why you must check the box on an internet form to indicate that you agree with or accept the terms of use or sale?
That argument is so 2008.

PromoterX 03-03-2013 07:10 AM
Interesting what 5 years does to a business.

PromoterX 03-03-2013 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ghost (Post 19508898)
Old thread ... interesting to see who's still around and who's not.
You know what's interesting.... is that i've been staring at those panties for years now... and never knew that it's been mispelled the entire time until today.

"Luckly Day" Wow. :helpme

signupdamnit 03-03-2013 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PromoterX (Post 19509280)
Interesting what 5 years does to a business.
I find it interesting to read threads from a year or two back. So many people and companies are gone. Half the time it's the ones who told you to "adapt or die. you must be doing something wrong because sales are better than ever! we still convert at 1:250, blah blah". :upsidedow

mamaliga 03-03-2013 10:12 AM
ron is gay

The Ghost 03-03-2013 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PromoterX (Post 19509281)
You know what's interesting.... is that i've been staring at those panties for years now... and never knew that it's been mispelled the entire time until today.

"Luckly Day" Wow. :helpme
Been waiting years for someone to point it out :winkwink:


Time for a new avatar soon :)

SleazyDream 03-03-2013 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 14744715)
After reading the rash of threads recently regarding cross sales, it's clear that most people don't know much more about the subject other than whatever it is that's been yelled the loudest on the boards. As someone who is in the cross sale business, I thought I would respond to the hysteria.

Pre-checked cross sales are a legal, commonly used way of doing business that both Visa and Mastercard allow. When done correctly (as in, how I do it) there is a huge benefit to the program owner with very little risk. There is also a correct way to handle the surfer so as not to scare them away from adult sites altogether. When done incorrectly, the industry is put at risk.

Hidden, pre-checked cross sales are misleading, wrong, and most likely illegal. None of us should be surprised to see some large programs prosecuted by the DOJ or FTC for this underhanded practice.
I do not support them, condone them, or do anything besides pray for their demise. They hurt us all and we do not now, nor will we ever, do business with people who practice hidden cross sales. If we have a partner who turns to the dark side, we will drop them in a heart beat.


However, there has been way too much lumping together of properly done cross sales with the hidden, shady cross sale practices that we all know are going on. This is done mostly by the uninformed but also by some who's agenda it is to discredit a business practice that is not their own (in typical GFY style)


Take our model for example.
Our prechecks are fully visible and explained in detail above the submit button. There is nothing hidden about them. They are right in the surfer's face. However, if the surfer doesn't understand or somehow doesn't see the checkbox, he WILL receive an email in plain text (so as not to get caught in a spam filter) explaining that he has joined along with the website URL and more importantly, the CANCEL PAGE URL. There is simply no deception. But we go even further to protect the surfer. If, somehow, they didn't see the checkbox and didn't get the email, our descriptors that show up on their credit card statement have our toll free customer service phone number and our cancel page url. If they contact our customer service and ask for a refund, we refund them in full NO QUESTIONS ASKED. It doesn't matter whether they say,"I have no idea what this charge is" or "I just want to cheat you out of money" we give a full refund. All of that is to take care of the surfer!



We also have a few proprietary ways of protecting the program owner who sells to us from the small percentage of disgruntled surfers as well but that's not for public consumption. There's a reason we're better than our competition and I'm just not going to give it away on a chat board.

And just a quick word on retention. Since I also sell off some cross sales, I too, am very concerned about retention. Because of the way we operate cross sales, we've always enjoyed great retention. At a time when you hear people struggling for 3month retention, we're looking at many many many surfers staying with us for over a year. The myth that cross sales hurt retention is just that, a myth.

I'm currently working with some of the biggest most ethical companies in our business and there's a reason for that. If you're a program owner who's interested in cross sales, contact me and find out why.


there are many legal ways to fuck your affiliates over as well, no law says you have to track everything perfectly. By the logic you post here, what's to say you aren't doing what's LEGAL and fucking over every affiliate you ever dealt with?


I mean, if your integrity is soo great, why fuck over customers? If you fuck them over, who's to say you won't do it with affiliates as well....

Supz 03-04-2013 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ghost (Post 19509589)
Been waiting years for someone to point it out :winkwink:


Time for a new avatar soon :)
I never wanted to look to close because you run ladyboy sites and wasnt sure if there was something tucked it. But that is funny though. "Made In Thailand" are they?

MrMaxwell 03-06-2013 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleazyDream (Post 19509800)
theanl....

Socks 03-06-2013 08:49 PM
12clicks position on everything is always the same:

Bottom. :winkwink:

2013 03-06-2013 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socks (Post 19515451)
12clicks position on everything is always the same:

Bottom. :winkwink:
yup another ass raper

bean-aid 03-06-2013 10:31 PM
Settle down boys. Let the betters decide what is right and what is wrong.


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