Bingo. I didn't go quite this far though, only about 10k on the ex :mad:

That is the most true statement, in regards to this issue, you are ever going to hear.

You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.

So basically what you're saying is that all we can do is just make sure the kids are placed in a safe environment... hopefully without having CPS or the law get involved, and then let them be until they're ready to get help on their own?

We want to get my nephews out of there and their grandmother has already offered a couple of times to keep them for a while but they (the parents) refuse. I'm not sure it's going to be possible without getting CPS involved, and that's really a last resort option.

What you're saying makes sense. It's just really hard to turn your back on somebody you care about so much and watch the self-destruct. But if that's the path they insist on following, I'll be damned if I'm going to let them take my nephews down that path with them.

Amen bro..

sorry to hear you are having problems. you should check out intherooms.com they have lots of recovered addicts and offer support for family members and loved ones that have ?'s and want to help. good luck.

Interventions can work. And if the person relapses, at least everyone knows what is what and the damage to others is less. AA is a good program and is very good for the rest of the family. It really helped me as a kid dealing with dependency in the family.

I think they also add power to the people doing it. Yes we can't make this person stop but we can tell him/her what we see and that we want them to stop as a group. After that you have done all there is to do and you can remove yourself feeling better.

Well really they are not ready for help. That's why it takes the family to get involved to make them go, and they realize they care.

They just had a special episode where they called back in some of the people and also had all 3 of the interventionists there.

anyways they said they have done like 94 interventions so far and 74 of them are still sober.
h

if a dope fiend/alcholic doesn't realize on their own that they are at rock bottom then they simply are not at rock bottom.

an intervention might get them to rehab or attending a few aa meetings, but it doesn't get them on the road to recovery, dope fiends and alcholics are stubborn

if you want to force them, offer to buy them so more booze & dope to speed along the downward spiral.


you should read the big book of aa too, it's actually a good read and has a lot of info in it for people like yourself

yes this is what I would do with all the experience I have.... totally sucks however once the gov is involved it's very hard to get rid of them. and the gov really sucks IMHO

if the parents won't agree tell them you're going to have them arrested. and do have them arrested if they won't comply.

those 2 are responsible for their behaviors. children need protection. you need protection. after you get the kids safe get as far away as possible from the crack-heads. nothing you can do except watch the the 'train wreck' from a safe distance.

I really don't see any other 'workable' solution :( -bmb

Missy, I know you want to blow off my suggestion, but it is reality. They have to want to help themselves and as long as you stay involved you are enabling them, because she won't hit bottom until you let go and let them fall.

That about says it all right there.


.

ignore her, take away her kids, don't help her, don't give her money etc. until she crawls in the mud and realizes her situation

From my understanding of crack...it kinda leads to a psychosis. They are more or less insane while they're doing it.

That just makes rehab all the more important. They need to detox and get it out of their system before they can even begin to seek therapy for the addiction itself.

I do withdraw my suggestion for calling CPS. Getting a family member or friend to intervene instead is a much better idea, if thats an option. My main point in that regard was to not make empty threats. If you say you're going to do something, follow through with it.

Its a horribly difficult thing to deal with, and I wish you the best of luck. Both of my parents were addiction to drugs my whole life. It's a shitty thing for any kid to have to go through. If I had to suggest one thing, it would be to find a way to get those kids out of there and into a stable, drug free environment. If my grandmother hadn't taken me away from my parents and raised me, theres no telling where I would be right now.

Get the kids away any way that you can. Without law enforcement / social services if possible, but with if necessary. Soon.

The fact that they still have friends and their children means that they have not yet hit rock bottom.

Remove these and perhaps they shall see it.

i can tell you this with complete certainty- if YOU remove those kids that dope fiend sister of yours will blame EVERYTHING on you. period.
i've seen it happen many many times.

dope fiends and alcoholics are the only people i know that can be laying in the gutter, covered in filth, doped out of their minds and pointing their fucking finger at YOU blaming you for everything they've lost.

it's called denial and all addicts are well-versed at it.

here's a link to the online version of the big book of alcoholics anonymous, please- you seriously need to read this.

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm

First secure the safety of the kids. EVERYTHING else is secondary.

:2 cents:

Rock bottom it is.

You can't help an addict, no matter how much you try.
All you will do is push them away.

In there eyes they are doing nothing wrong, they are doing something they enjoy doing so "why should the quit it"

Don't help them, regardless of how low they get and as hard as it may be to see them suffer.

That's a great statistic! I would like to see that episode - I hadn't realized the success rate was so high. I found all the episodes for the first four seasons to download, including a few follow-ups, but that one I didn't find.

Thanks for the info... I really appreciate it :thumbsup

You're right - I don't want to accept your suggestion as reality. Even though I know in the back of my mind that what you're saying is true, it's really difficult to accept. We (as a family) feel like if we cut them off completely they will only have the wrong people to turn to for support during those times of weakness when they actually DO acknowledge that there IS a problem. But it very well could be that that's exactly what we are doing wrong. I do appreciate your input, and I also understand that it's something that we are going to have to learn to accept - reality doesn't go away just because you don't want to accept it.

So then what would your suggestion be as far as getting the kids away from them? Just suck it up and take the blame? I would like to think that even if they lay the blame on one of us during the process, they will eventually be able to see clearly and understand that everything we have done (and will do in the future) was done only out of love. But I also know that won't happen until/unless they clean themselves up first.

Thank you for the link - I will definitely read this.

It is called tough love. It is called enabling. Sorry.

I am watching someone [another enabler] deal with the beginning stages of acceptance for the last few months.

It is really difficult to feel sorry for them since they allowing themselves to be used.

No need to apologize. But I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from as well. It would be like you having to turn your back on one of your kids. And knowing you, I know you are a strong enough person to be able to do that, but I also know it wouldn't be easy for you.

BTW, why aren't you at the Halloween Bash right now?

I don't really have much to offer aside from what's already been said... especially reguarding her needing to hit rock bottom before she will REALLY get it through her head. That said, you CAN help her hit rock bottom... how? By making her feel like an absolute piece of shit basically. All while confirming your love for her. Don't be afraid to point out every little fucked up thing she is doing or has done. She needs to feel guilty for her drug abuse. Did she have dreams of being a nurse/teacher/astronaut? Remind her of those dreams, but let her know they are still achievable... all is not lost. Ask her if she loves her kids, because of course she does, let her know that her drug abuse could lead to them getting taken. Potentially permanently. Throw the absolute shittiest scenarios into her head that you can think of, the more realistic the better, but do it tactfully and with love. Threaten her with serious, life changing shit and follow through with it at least every once in a while. Give her chances but don't make empty threats.

Aside from that, she needs to dis-associate herself with anyone involved in that culture. Flat out. That means not speaking with people she probably considers her best friends. No small talk, no barbeques, etc. She always has an excellent excuse - "I'm trying to get clean".. even most drug users understand that. And maybe that'll be hard for her but for me it wasn't ( mostly because I was 'ready'/had had enough )... many of the people involved in the drug culture are lying, cheating, scamming pieces of shit who will do anything for more drugs. They're not REAL friends.. not even close, at least not when they're using. Remind her of this every chance you get, because at least for me.. that was key. Getting away from the culture/lifestyle. She needs to find a new, healthier 'normal'. It needs to become absolutely routine. Once she's been clean for a while help her to despise the lifestyle she used to live. Remind her why she got out. Refer to it with absolute disgust.

Anyway.. I'm done rambling but I hope she gets out. HTH

Wow! Paul, I knew things where bad, but not this bad! :( I'm glad you have your son as much as you do! You know I'm always here if you need a shoulder to cry on!!!!

400 miles away, Was just in Vegas last weekend, will be in Indiana next weekend, will be in Vegas after that.

I need some time with my dog.

np, it's called :Intervention After Treatment Special" http://www.aetv.com/intervention/int_episode_guide.jsp

they have to admit that they're screwed up and need help. then they have to admit that they WANT HELP!

I would seriously get in touch with those people from that show, some of those interventionists and counselors do that OFF the camera. And they know other people who do it. The interventions are a great thing to do and may wake up your cousin, especially if a former addict can tell them how successful they are in life now!

Thanks Lori. It is indeed bad, but my attitude is changing more and more which makes it easier (Missy: make note of this!).

Baddog really has a point. It's not easy to see family (and in my case the mother of my 2 year old son) slipping, but you have to let them go. And yes, they will blame you for everything, you won't believe some of the things I get blamed for. It almost got to me few months back, but I was strong enough to take the blame and move on.

Nobody can step in and force them get help. simple rock bottom. May be jail. Maybe suicide attempt.

well, to tell you truth, my answer to that is a question to you. who are you trying to save here? your sister or the kids? because at this point, after reading each your posts a few times, i'm not sure what your goal is here. it sounds to me like you mostly want to get the kids in a safe environment more than getting your sister clean. although you haven't really stated anything showing that their safety is truly in jeopardy- sure letting them run around unsupervised and unfed is wrong but not necc. unsafe, depends on many things.

so i guess my point is this, if you want your sister to deal with her addiction you have to do nothing, even your family has turned away from her (as you mentioned).

if you want to *save* the kids, then fuck her and her addiction and get the kids, i don't know the best way for you to do that, i'm more versed at getting drunks and druggies help.

Very good advice.

It's a good question. The initial goal was to "save" my sister and her husband - before things get to the point where something happens to the kids that will be irreversible. So I guess the answer is... both. From everything I have been reading here and learning on my own though, the first goal is pretty much pointless, so I believe that now the goal has shifted more toward the second part - which is just making sure that they aren't going to take their kids down this path with them.

None of us want to wait to find out if their rock bottom will involve the kids somehow. That may not happen, but it's a very real possibility and we don't want to have to find out the hard way. I have only given a couple of the examples I know of that make me feel like the kids could be in jeopardy, but it only takes one time for their 5-year-old to find the drugs that one of their friends have left laying around... and none of us would ever forgive ourselves. We also don't want to wait until the state steps in to remove the kids and place them in the foster care system.

So I guess the real answer is that the ideal goal is to save both, but if nothing can be done to help my sister and her husband, our main focus is just making sure that my nephews are in a safe environment while the parents run their course.

BTW, would you mind if I hit you up on ICQ to chat some time?

Well, Missy, since my daughter is in the business of taking kids away from crack heads I would suggest that one of you step up and do it before the county does.

Question: Can a family member take steps to get legal temporary custody without having CPS (or similar) involved? Or once you get involved in the legal system is that part mandatory?

Intervention.

Pretty sure once you go for legal, unless your sister signs them over, the court is going to get CPS involved to investigate your ability to provide a safe place for the kids. I would consult a Family Law attorney.

American Cannibal.

:2 cents: