You're comparing apples and oranges, the models naked body is published for the whole world to see forever while the photographer hides behind the camera... That is a lot harder to put a price on :2 cents:

Im wondering how the painting rates are then... :D

I am in Phoenix AZ, when I work with Camdough we would pay are models $150.00/hr for a live show. They normally were G/G.

The economy is really bad right now, models should even be lucky they have jobs.

I been modeling for a while now and book myself for a lot of photoshoots, events and calendar shoots.

For promo Modeling I get paid anywhere from $25.00/hr to $50.00/hr

Print work or tear-sheet is normally $50.00 to $100.00/hour somtime $150 if I am lucky.

If the model doesn't have an agent than $150.00 is good money.

if they ask for too much then just get others. there's more people who want jobs than there are jobs floating around.

Nice to see girls in the states are fucking on film for 3rd world rates :thumbsup

just get what you can pay :)

well, ok, per hour...

we don't pay per hour, we pay per scene. and one b/g or g/g scene may take between 1 and 2, sometimes with storyline up to 3 hours. and for that girls get about $450 - $500

with 2 b/g and some solo work girls might earn around $1000 per day with us, thats about the average monthly income in czech rep. for regular workers

Do the bitches pay taxes in czech ?

we advise them to do so - 99% probably don't

I can see both ends of this dilemma, since I've been on both sides of it. About 8 to 10 years ago I modeled some, and it made me feel great to be offered $300 an hour for solo modeling. I never did g/g or b/g so I couldn't tell you how much that's worth from a model's standpoint. But for solo work, I think it's fair to get $300 an hour. More than that? I doubt any girl is worth that much, unless she has a big name and is a celebrity like Jordan or Elle McPhearson and such.

From a photographer/webmaster point of view, it hurts to have to pay that amount of money for a girl to just get naked. Personally I would never pay a model more than $600 a day. And now that I'm in Mexico, I pay a girl $200 a day and she's extremely happy.

I agree that $800 or $1000 for solo is too much however the market dictates the prices..

good, at least there are a few.

:)

The market does NOT dictate the prices, the producers and companies paying talent do. If everyone said, ya know what, we are gonna pay $200 for solo, $400 for toys etc...what do you think the talent would do? They obviously cant strike, there is no union. They would have to accept those rates or go try and make a living in the real fucking world and make slave wages.

To all the people in here supporting these girls and continuing to give them more and more just because they think thats what their pussy is worth, just hand them a toy, bend over and let them fuck you in your ass. Thats basically what you are doing as they laugh themselves to the bank. Sorry to see so many who dont mind being played like a bitch.

A few problems with your thoughts and I hope to address them all. Please note, I am commenting as a producer of content as well as a site owner.

Yes, the market does dictate and you cannot consider that we all are in the same "market". Same industry yes, but same market NO.

I compete either directly or indirectly with probably 8-10 sites, all of which pay a typical model fee of $1000/day. Some of them pay more, some a little less. Models know this. The only way for that price to drop would be for all of us en masse to stop paying that level - WON'T HAPPEN. Sites that are pulling in $100k, $200K, $500K per month don't give a tiddly shit about $1000/day on a model when their ROI is 10-100 times that amount. So it is in fact those types of sites that drive the market. You can complain all you want, but the only solution is to not shoot if you can't compete.

I can certainly get one girl to do the same thing as another for a different price and in fact have paid one $600 for what I gave another $1300 for. I felt the more expensive one was worth what she was asking. Enough said.

Would I rather pay less? Of course I would, and I negotiate with every single girl. I negotiate even after they arrive (I book with a basic premise usually and inevitably talk with the model about other things when they are working with me), but I do accept that prices, agents, etc are all part of the game we are in.

Sucks if you can't afford to compete as I have been there, but do the best you can and work toward doing better/more. Anything else is just whining and complaining.

haha that made me laugh

Agents are key to a lot of this- They need to make their money to, the only problem with a lot of them is there's no room for negotiating the talent's rates, business is always one big negotiation and a lot of models don't get this. And MOST of the time its the girl herself who has certain demands to what she thinks she should be compensated to do the nasty on film.

When I started shooting in Los Angeles in 2003 Bj's were $150 and GG was $400 and BG was typically $800-$1000 and girls with BIG naturals could get more.

Now girls from what agents are demanding Bj's $400 GG $600-$800 and BG $900-$1100 I know girls BG rates that are $3,000!!!!!!!

As for the up keep a model needs to maintain to be a Model, well I worked out outside for free, I tanned for $50 bucks a month and nails $100 bucks including toes. Most sets have makeup and wardrobe and if not you basically need 10 sets of bras and panties and 5 outfits and a few High Heels that is not going to put a girl in debt, I did it and still had plenty of money, most girls don't manage their bank accounts.

Most of the girls that show up DO NOT workout, have bad acne, do not tan, their nails are not done, they have serious roots and need dye jobs, and most do not have cars. This is consistent in 6 years I have been doing this.

I think it's fair to the girls who do make this a job, who do take care of themselves, who look the part, tan, workout, get facials, great hair, clean nails , on time with a car who do MAINTAIN a model lifestyle should get any rate they want!

But I dont see why all girls get the same rate, the low end girls get paid the same as the 10's? The 10's put 100% of effort into their look, and the low end girls who are mediocre at best get paid the same amount? That doesn't happen anywhere else in the world.

When we shoot a girl, and she looks the part and does an amazing scene its a great day, we got the shots we need, we got the footage we need, most photographers will agree we will pay her great because we appreciate the effort that girl made and it made our day a lot easier.

I never walked in with an hourly rate, I had the attitude im here for the day lets fucking shoot! Whatever that may be, I never understood and still dont why girls demand so much money and want to only be there for an hour! Its like this is going on the internet for the rest of your life, dont you want it to look as good as possible? I see companies all the time giving high amounts of money and bribing the girls " yer gonna be in and out in a hour" HUH?

The fact of the matter is this is the highest legal paying profession in the world without going to school for 10 years, and there's 100's of girls in Los Angeles today NOT working and wondering why?

I never had a problem shooting for photogs for cheaper rates, it resulted in them hiring me more, in the long run I made more money doing that, then NOT shooting because I wasn't getting my "rate" and I knew the company would always hire me again and again.

this is a myth, so not true :2 cents:

i agree to most of that, just one problem: my clients (usually) do not pay more per scene when a girl is really excellent. on rare occasions i can demand something extra when a girl is really expensive, but otherwise i get a fixed amount per scene no matter how much i pay to the girl. thats why we offer all girls the same money and they either work for that money or not. otherwise i would have to pay it out of my pocket - which i will not.

and we had it a lot of times that girls demanded insane amounts of money so that we had to refuse them. a few months later when they ran out of jobs they came back and worked for the standard rate

That's when models should negotiate, either I make $300 bucks today or nothing. If they choose nothing, it makes sense why their always broke, but to me $300 is better than NOTHING!

women are lucky we don't just tie them to a rock and rape them repeatedly whenever we feel like. how dare they ask for money at all.

I don't know how you could compare being hot and fucking on camera to someone who works at Burger King. They should get paid for doing what they do.

then tell FTVRob to stop paying outragous amounts and making the bitches compare the rates to him!

This is ridiculous and something I have been hearing producers complain about since precious few even knew what an "internet" was. Pay the models what you want to pay them and stop blaming others for paying more. This is still America and freedom to run your business the way you want is a sacred right of living in a capitalist society.

Here is :2 cents: so you can pay your models more.

that the marketplace you idiot, the producers are the demand, the model's time they supply

the price they come to is the equilibrium price

so your talking market collusion, which is by definition a non market condition.
the problem with that is models will go to other jobs that pay more (like escorting) or that have less of a stigma at a lower price point (like swimwear modeling/catalog modeling etc)

that the principle of the marketplace you idiot, the equilibrium price is based on the amount people are willing to pay and the rate models are willing to give up there time.
drive the price to low and models will sell their time in a different field.
porn producers have to compete with every other revenue source the model has (her own site, escorting)

if you want better rates you have to negotiate based on non monetary values like branding , market reach, promotion, etc.

This thread needs Mr. E in action :)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=55D1hK5kvGs


PS promote www.kickassgirlz.com it sells really well dispite Mr. E's constant crying :)

i guess that explains why you don't have a clue how this business works, even after you've been shooting content for the last 1-2 years for it. :winkwink:




well, maybe you should factor in the popularity of these models. by your own admission they are "well known", yet you want to pay them like they are anonymous slabs of meat you picked up at the greyhound station?? :D







the companies & producers that CAN afford to pay these girls top rates, is because thats what they are worth to them. and, since the girls have a worth that others are willing to pay, you had better come close to matching it - or continue to shoot girls that are posing for TFCD with you :) ...just because YOU can't afford to pay, doesnt mean everyone else can't

whether or not the country is in a recession apparently hasnt affected these girls or the others that are hiring them - unless they just dont want to shoot with you & are quoting you unflexible rates?? :upsidedow







So, if you find PLENTY of hot girls (from myspace) willing to model for free, then why would you even get upset over some well known & professional models not willing to do the same? Would it possibly be because:

- these myspace girls are flakes
- these myspace girls aren't pros & won't perform as well as a pro
- these myspace girls are complete unknowns and won't bring any sales from their non-established fanbase?





:glugglug

ahh now it makes sense!! getting girls to do this, versus getting girls to pose naked & do g/g - b/g = big difference in rates :)

ok, i understand, food isn't cheap :upsidedow

First of all, I didn't say they work "harder" than other people. I said that you weren't recognizing other factors (risks, expenses, time invested, lack of longevity, etc.) that should be considered in models' pay.

Secondly, get a fucking clue yourself -- you obviously don't know jack shit about what kind of work I do or have done in the past, but if you didn't have this extraordinary hatred of whores you might not have jumped to conclusions and taken even a cursory glance at one or more of the sites linked from my sig, profile, etc. and figured out that I *am* a photographer and a webmaster.

That is a good point, too.

I will do some looking for them . . . this thread is SO warm and fuzzy!

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

I love whores :) But their rates are gonna come down. Sales are down for the big sites and that means the shooting budgets need to come down. Especially for the big programs that have 20 + sites in their network and have to shoot a new scene for each one every week.

Doesn't make any sense to pay big rates. Especially since a lot of those sites have their entire members areas ripped on tubes and torrents for free. Low sales + high production budget = Bad

And the "name girls" are pretty much oversaturated. I've said it before...as an affiliate I just can't make a sale anymore with Puma Swede or ~Insert LA Direct Female Model~ fucking Christian or ~Insert LA Direct Male Model~ anymore when they have already fucked 10 times for every site on the planet AND all those scenes are available for free.

Something will have to give. My guess is that models rates will have to come down or they just won't work. And the new "no-name" girls, by the way...are the very ones you WANT to find. Nothing better than fresh, never shot before models for sales.

Hopefully the economy won't tank all the way as some are predicting. I'm kinda hoping that the media is making it sound worse than it is so that when it does straighten out they can say: "Obama saved us!"

Then business can get back to normal and model rates can go back up. In the meantime, as I look at unemployment rising and companies going bankrupt and even our banks failing...I would say that having a job fucking on film and then stripping at night in a club is damn good money and a lot funner than flipping burgers. :)

And to repeat: I love whores! I'd rather sit and talk with a whore than anybody else because they are interesting and fucking hot.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2wncs5u.jpg


.

Yeah, someone's rates have to come down, but do you really think it's the whores'? For most internet pornographers, paying webmasters costs a WHOLE lot more than production costs which would be fine/make sense except when they pay 1) huge per-join payouts, on 2) free joins or trials, 3) and that traffic is sent by giving away ridiculously massive quantities of free porn (thereby decreasing signups -- I'm not fighting the reality, just acknowledging it IS a factor to our bottom line, way more so than paying talent), and 4) the way they manage to turn a profit even after they pay affiliates millions is by scamming surfers in ways that can only be described as criminal and only hurt ALL of us:

http://www.gfy.com/it/867499-trafficgigilos-free-sites-10-sells-shit-credit-card.html
plus the follow-up of stats with screen shots:
http://www.gfy.com/gfy-hall-of-shame/873319-opinions-stats-post15140237.html
(see also any number of threads about pre-checked cross-sales, etc.)

Something's gotta give, for sure, and with the economy tanking cuts have to be made everywhere, but cutting back on what the models/whores are paid wouldn't even begin to balance things out. The more obvious place to look is 1) cutting back these ridiculous payouts, 2) cutting back the freebies, and 3) cutting out free joins and trials completely.

People (not talking about you, Robbie) need to stop being so greedy, constantly thinking about how to suck the CUSTOMERS *and* the whores dry, and actually place real value on the products they should be selling instead of paying web"masters" exorbitant amounts of money for giving it all away for free so they can rip-off the people who entrusted them with their credit cards.

Note: I know not all sponsors do that shady stuff and I'm NOT saying affiliates are worthless (well, some of them are, and worse) and shouldn't be rewarded FAIRLY -- most of our affiliates are awesome and I am fully aware they could make more money more easily by sending traffic to the big bad guys instead of small sites like ours that can "only" pay half on the sales instead of some grossly inflated amount that can rarely be sustained in an ethical way on a long-term basis (ie without raping customers' credit cards). I do appreciate our affiliates and I don't blame anybody for taking advantage of the way the system's set up -- I just don't think it's built to last.

I know you (Robbie) are a sponsor AND an affiliate/webmaster and so am I, so before anyone gets all defensive let me just say I too love getting paid $35+ per easy-as-hell-to-send join. I know from experience that it's WAY easier (it's still "work", I'm not saying it's not work at all) to be a webmaster than to be a whore. WAY.

If *more* value were placed on the whores, not just in the amount they're paid but in the end products where they appear, there would be less free porn/more actual TEASERS, less giving-it-away-for free or $1.99 for three days where you can rip the whole site, people would pay to join and see more of the girls who do have big names and/or personality and/or are great models (not as easy as Mr. E thinks). I'm not retarded -- I understand this isn't a perfect world / it's not going to happen, but I can at least hope people will be rational and recognize that if we're going to sit around on this board complaining about who's expecting to be paid WAY too much, it is the webmasters and there are countless threads to prove it.

I don't care how nice you are or how many hours you spend at the computer, you do not (nor do I, no matter how pleasant it is) deserve $40 for sending a surfer who signs up intending to spend zero to $5 and will only spend more if you trick him into it/steal it from him. This is not an attack on webmasters, I'm just trying to help people COMPARE AND CONTRAST.

Sorry but this is not right. The average for a B/G scene was $900.00 but I have noticed some agencies dropping that to $700 recently. Few if any girls work 5 days a week and from what I hear work is dropping off rapidly.

Models work is not hard but it's very risky they are subjected to working with complete idiots, there's one in particular who posts on here now and again, a raving fucking cluster fuck. There is also the huge risk of disease, imaging fucking 20 different guys a month thats 240 a year all of whom fuck other people who fuck others etc , etc. That alone is worth the pay.

Like Jay I would rather pay more to ensure the model turns up on time and ready, the cost of makeup artists, locations, equipment hire, travel, food etc is way more than the cost of a single model. :2 cents:

Do YOU pay taxes ?

And do YOU pay taxes ?

No wonder you call yourself "commonsense", your post was spot on.

This post was spot off.

You are seriously a loser yes a loser and not a very clever one either. The producers and companies are part of the market. They dictate the price the girls get and they can afford it.

Before Eva had her accident and we stopped shooting, we were paying top dollar to new girls who were worth it. They had to be cute, teen and attractive. Or attractive and do good boy girl, but never found many of them recently. So we could sell a set for $4,000 to $6,000 each. If we did not pay the top rate someone else got the girl and we would be left shooting girls for sets and video that will only sell on the Net for $400 to $500. Like I you're probably doing.

Think on this. Wicked, Vivid, Penthouse and a few more pay girls well and sign them up to contracts. They do this so their customers come to them first and not one of the competitors. It's called GOOD BUSINESS where I come from. :thumbsup

That sadly is the short sighted attitude of many porn publishers, not just Internet ones. A lot of the DVD industry decided the best way to make more money was to stick more titles on the shelves. And not raise the shooting budget in total. So shooters had to produce more for less. Many magazines decided that sales were down so the best way to cut cost was to buy cheap sets. And you told us the Internet story.

Many of the companies that did this lost their clients trust and then lost them.

Don't worry the money we save on the content we can spend on sending more traffic that converts worse and stays less. Then we can stop buying content all together and just spend even more on marketing. :Oh crap

The magazines we still sell to are the ones who did not adopt that business model. :thumbsup

Why are you so obsessed if other people pay taxes? You've post this in other threads too. :disgust

Would I rather pay less?

No I want to pay the girls more. Because it puts others out of the business. Your other points were spot on. This is not a club and if I can pay more I would, to make sure I get the best. Any shooter who thinks one girl is the same as the next and sees no skill in modeling is obviously someone who does not have a clue about porn or modeling.

I dont know about you, but writing code hours and hours into the night and 1st thing when you wake up, isnt easy work amd takes up alot of your time. :2 cents:

That being the case, you think you'd be willing to pay for quality girls who do work out.. That's why people pay higher, they pay for reliability. Seems if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen..it's a competative market and the girls need to make their money too. Find different girls?

Its kinda obvious.

Cause bitches are bitching around whining how hard their bitching is and compare themselves to regular workers. Dont forget, bitches became bitches cause of the easy and fast money (and probably cause of a complete lack of brains). Yes they get 10 or more times less than the bitches. And they are fucking able to pay their taxes. 99% of the bitches is unable to pay the taxes. IF they pay them, THEN they deserve the amount they receive. Else, theyre worth a $100 fuck to me, nothing else, and should shut the fuck up with their 'i need to go to polish my nails, and to tan - so my rates are sky high'. Way the fucking go. Like regular chicks dont do their tans and nails ? They dont want to look good ? What the fuck ?

Naturally, an other thing is when some already has her 'name' in the biz. In this case you pay the brand, and that costs, and im sure these girls pay their taxes. But there are a few only and except them zounds of playb0y wannabe bitches, who want the same $, pushing up the market prices, without actually having their established 'brands' paying their taxes, and are whining all around of how hard their 'job' is. Not to mention they started to bitch around the webmasters if you read up a bit.

I dont want to hurt anyone, i had respect to many producers, content providers giving a voice in this thread. But after reading their lines here... Geez... I thought theyre smarter.

:2 cents:

You are bang on here.. but you have to realize... most of the "webmasters" that complain about that kind of thing don't treat this like a business, they treat it like a cash cow. Only those who have a clue about the cost incurred by running a business and the way that costs accumulate (you gotta spend money to make money), don't be surprised that a lot of those people won't understand the logic of what you're saying here. Notice, the really good companies who have great content, great reps, and great business models don't even blink about paying a girl a good rate. Keeps the models happy, gets better results, and in the end, makes everyone more money.

socal is an odd place.

op why worry the shit hasn't hit the fan with the economy yet (we are just getting there) so many of these new girls with inflated egos and dreams of becoming a super starlets are still coming down from their high horses. esp. in socal where someone who looks decent adds 2 notches to their actual scale. as for agents i don't think most can dictate rate

they are simply pushing the going rate. the same girl will shoot for 700 b/g then need money and shoot for $50 the next week because the repo man is out to get her or some other story

as for myspace girls they are some of the brightest business minded individuals out there - " it's my first time but i have an interview with a guy named bobby and said he can pay me $1500 for a blowjob scene...i don't even have to take my clothes off, i'm going to do a try-out next week at his house!"

For sample we pay (in france ) 250 € / 350 € for anal, Dp scene for real 'debutante' model ( 45 min shooting max), For "french star" : 450/600 € by scene. It's very less than US model, cause french Adult industry market is very small. And many french star (Katsuni, Melisa Lauren, etc) works in USA since 4-5 yrs cause more better for €€€ and have freedom to make harcore movies like she wants to do.

Did I ever say coding for hours and hours wasn't a job or that it's EASY? No. I didn't, and I wouldn't.

funny that you complain and in the same post have the solution (myspace girls).. must not work well, otherwise you weren't crying over it. Pay them their rates after all you shoot and expose them, so they want a certain amount.. it's simple.