I will do some looking for them . . . this thread is SO warm and fuzzy!

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

I love whores :) But their rates are gonna come down. Sales are down for the big sites and that means the shooting budgets need to come down. Especially for the big programs that have 20 + sites in their network and have to shoot a new scene for each one every week.

Doesn't make any sense to pay big rates. Especially since a lot of those sites have their entire members areas ripped on tubes and torrents for free. Low sales + high production budget = Bad

And the "name girls" are pretty much oversaturated. I've said it before...as an affiliate I just can't make a sale anymore with Puma Swede or ~Insert LA Direct Female Model~ fucking Christian or ~Insert LA Direct Male Model~ anymore when they have already fucked 10 times for every site on the planet AND all those scenes are available for free.

Something will have to give. My guess is that models rates will have to come down or they just won't work. And the new "no-name" girls, by the way...are the very ones you WANT to find. Nothing better than fresh, never shot before models for sales.

Hopefully the economy won't tank all the way as some are predicting. I'm kinda hoping that the media is making it sound worse than it is so that when it does straighten out they can say: "Obama saved us!"

Then business can get back to normal and model rates can go back up. In the meantime, as I look at unemployment rising and companies going bankrupt and even our banks failing...I would say that having a job fucking on film and then stripping at night in a club is damn good money and a lot funner than flipping burgers. :)

And to repeat: I love whores! I'd rather sit and talk with a whore than anybody else because they are interesting and fucking hot.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2wncs5u.jpg


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Yeah, someone's rates have to come down, but do you really think it's the whores'? For most internet pornographers, paying webmasters costs a WHOLE lot more than production costs which would be fine/make sense except when they pay 1) huge per-join payouts, on 2) free joins or trials, 3) and that traffic is sent by giving away ridiculously massive quantities of free porn (thereby decreasing signups -- I'm not fighting the reality, just acknowledging it IS a factor to our bottom line, way more so than paying talent), and 4) the way they manage to turn a profit even after they pay affiliates millions is by scamming surfers in ways that can only be described as criminal and only hurt ALL of us:

http://www.gfy.com/it/867499-trafficgigilos-free-sites-10-sells-shit-credit-card.html
plus the follow-up of stats with screen shots:
http://www.gfy.com/gfy-hall-of-shame/873319-opinions-stats-post15140237.html
(see also any number of threads about pre-checked cross-sales, etc.)

Something's gotta give, for sure, and with the economy tanking cuts have to be made everywhere, but cutting back on what the models/whores are paid wouldn't even begin to balance things out. The more obvious place to look is 1) cutting back these ridiculous payouts, 2) cutting back the freebies, and 3) cutting out free joins and trials completely.

People (not talking about you, Robbie) need to stop being so greedy, constantly thinking about how to suck the CUSTOMERS *and* the whores dry, and actually place real value on the products they should be selling instead of paying web"masters" exorbitant amounts of money for giving it all away for free so they can rip-off the people who entrusted them with their credit cards.

Note: I know not all sponsors do that shady stuff and I'm NOT saying affiliates are worthless (well, some of them are, and worse) and shouldn't be rewarded FAIRLY -- most of our affiliates are awesome and I am fully aware they could make more money more easily by sending traffic to the big bad guys instead of small sites like ours that can "only" pay half on the sales instead of some grossly inflated amount that can rarely be sustained in an ethical way on a long-term basis (ie without raping customers' credit cards). I do appreciate our affiliates and I don't blame anybody for taking advantage of the way the system's set up -- I just don't think it's built to last.

I know you (Robbie) are a sponsor AND an affiliate/webmaster and so am I, so before anyone gets all defensive let me just say I too love getting paid $35+ per easy-as-hell-to-send join. I know from experience that it's WAY easier (it's still "work", I'm not saying it's not work at all) to be a webmaster than to be a whore. WAY.

If *more* value were placed on the whores, not just in the amount they're paid but in the end products where they appear, there would be less free porn/more actual TEASERS, less giving-it-away-for free or $1.99 for three days where you can rip the whole site, people would pay to join and see more of the girls who do have big names and/or personality and/or are great models (not as easy as Mr. E thinks). I'm not retarded -- I understand this isn't a perfect world / it's not going to happen, but I can at least hope people will be rational and recognize that if we're going to sit around on this board complaining about who's expecting to be paid WAY too much, it is the webmasters and there are countless threads to prove it.

I don't care how nice you are or how many hours you spend at the computer, you do not (nor do I, no matter how pleasant it is) deserve $40 for sending a surfer who signs up intending to spend zero to $5 and will only spend more if you trick him into it/steal it from him. This is not an attack on webmasters, I'm just trying to help people COMPARE AND CONTRAST.

Sorry but this is not right. The average for a B/G scene was $900.00 but I have noticed some agencies dropping that to $700 recently. Few if any girls work 5 days a week and from what I hear work is dropping off rapidly.

Models work is not hard but it's very risky they are subjected to working with complete idiots, there's one in particular who posts on here now and again, a raving fucking cluster fuck. There is also the huge risk of disease, imaging fucking 20 different guys a month thats 240 a year all of whom fuck other people who fuck others etc , etc. That alone is worth the pay.

Like Jay I would rather pay more to ensure the model turns up on time and ready, the cost of makeup artists, locations, equipment hire, travel, food etc is way more than the cost of a single model. :2 cents:

Do YOU pay taxes ?

And do YOU pay taxes ?

No wonder you call yourself "commonsense", your post was spot on.

This post was spot off.

You are seriously a loser yes a loser and not a very clever one either. The producers and companies are part of the market. They dictate the price the girls get and they can afford it.

Before Eva had her accident and we stopped shooting, we were paying top dollar to new girls who were worth it. They had to be cute, teen and attractive. Or attractive and do good boy girl, but never found many of them recently. So we could sell a set for $4,000 to $6,000 each. If we did not pay the top rate someone else got the girl and we would be left shooting girls for sets and video that will only sell on the Net for $400 to $500. Like I you're probably doing.

Think on this. Wicked, Vivid, Penthouse and a few more pay girls well and sign them up to contracts. They do this so their customers come to them first and not one of the competitors. It's called GOOD BUSINESS where I come from. :thumbsup

That sadly is the short sighted attitude of many porn publishers, not just Internet ones. A lot of the DVD industry decided the best way to make more money was to stick more titles on the shelves. And not raise the shooting budget in total. So shooters had to produce more for less. Many magazines decided that sales were down so the best way to cut cost was to buy cheap sets. And you told us the Internet story.

Many of the companies that did this lost their clients trust and then lost them.

Don't worry the money we save on the content we can spend on sending more traffic that converts worse and stays less. Then we can stop buying content all together and just spend even more on marketing. :Oh crap

The magazines we still sell to are the ones who did not adopt that business model. :thumbsup

Why are you so obsessed if other people pay taxes? You've post this in other threads too. :disgust

Would I rather pay less?

No I want to pay the girls more. Because it puts others out of the business. Your other points were spot on. This is not a club and if I can pay more I would, to make sure I get the best. Any shooter who thinks one girl is the same as the next and sees no skill in modeling is obviously someone who does not have a clue about porn or modeling.

I dont know about you, but writing code hours and hours into the night and 1st thing when you wake up, isnt easy work amd takes up alot of your time. :2 cents:

That being the case, you think you'd be willing to pay for quality girls who do work out.. That's why people pay higher, they pay for reliability. Seems if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen..it's a competative market and the girls need to make their money too. Find different girls?

Its kinda obvious.

Cause bitches are bitching around whining how hard their bitching is and compare themselves to regular workers. Dont forget, bitches became bitches cause of the easy and fast money (and probably cause of a complete lack of brains). Yes they get 10 or more times less than the bitches. And they are fucking able to pay their taxes. 99% of the bitches is unable to pay the taxes. IF they pay them, THEN they deserve the amount they receive. Else, theyre worth a $100 fuck to me, nothing else, and should shut the fuck up with their 'i need to go to polish my nails, and to tan - so my rates are sky high'. Way the fucking go. Like regular chicks dont do their tans and nails ? They dont want to look good ? What the fuck ?

Naturally, an other thing is when some already has her 'name' in the biz. In this case you pay the brand, and that costs, and im sure these girls pay their taxes. But there are a few only and except them zounds of playb0y wannabe bitches, who want the same $, pushing up the market prices, without actually having their established 'brands' paying their taxes, and are whining all around of how hard their 'job' is. Not to mention they started to bitch around the webmasters if you read up a bit.

I dont want to hurt anyone, i had respect to many producers, content providers giving a voice in this thread. But after reading their lines here... Geez... I thought theyre smarter.

:2 cents:

You are bang on here.. but you have to realize... most of the "webmasters" that complain about that kind of thing don't treat this like a business, they treat it like a cash cow. Only those who have a clue about the cost incurred by running a business and the way that costs accumulate (you gotta spend money to make money), don't be surprised that a lot of those people won't understand the logic of what you're saying here. Notice, the really good companies who have great content, great reps, and great business models don't even blink about paying a girl a good rate. Keeps the models happy, gets better results, and in the end, makes everyone more money.

socal is an odd place.

op why worry the shit hasn't hit the fan with the economy yet (we are just getting there) so many of these new girls with inflated egos and dreams of becoming a super starlets are still coming down from their high horses. esp. in socal where someone who looks decent adds 2 notches to their actual scale. as for agents i don't think most can dictate rate

they are simply pushing the going rate. the same girl will shoot for 700 b/g then need money and shoot for $50 the next week because the repo man is out to get her or some other story

as for myspace girls they are some of the brightest business minded individuals out there - " it's my first time but i have an interview with a guy named bobby and said he can pay me $1500 for a blowjob scene...i don't even have to take my clothes off, i'm going to do a try-out next week at his house!"

For sample we pay (in france ) 250 € / 350 € for anal, Dp scene for real 'debutante' model ( 45 min shooting max), For "french star" : 450/600 € by scene. It's very less than US model, cause french Adult industry market is very small. And many french star (Katsuni, Melisa Lauren, etc) works in USA since 4-5 yrs cause more better for €€€ and have freedom to make harcore movies like she wants to do.

Did I ever say coding for hours and hours wasn't a job or that it's EASY? No. I didn't, and I wouldn't.

funny that you complain and in the same post have the solution (myspace girls).. must not work well, otherwise you weren't crying over it. Pay them their rates after all you shoot and expose them, so they want a certain amount.. it's simple.

Speaking of models...do you still need me to do the camera work next week when you get in front of the camera to shoot that hardcore scene with those two trannies?

u r mean Mr E! :(

I think I need to know what you were really shooting them for and what caliber of model before I can assess your situation.

It might be that, if you are keeping the real usage of the work a secret, the models sense something shady and are jacking up the rates.

It might be that you are calling them "dumb whores" and getting a rude guy surcharge.

Or it might be that you are aiming to high for casting the type of project you are working on.

I assumed when you said percentage that you meant Zivity, but the G/G and B/G implies something else.

Normally I don't agree with your posts, but I have to say you're right on! :thumbsup

I do have another question. Why is it asking too much to pay the models 1K for a scene that will make you tens of thousands of dollars ?!?! I mean, I really think that is a very fair rate considering she is the one in the content and doing the main "selling" if you wil

Not me.... hehe

i used to argue to the models that it would be better for them to make 500 than to make nothing but i have learned to understand how they work..
if they dont need the money immediately, most of the models would rather lay in bed all day than make less than their "rate".
i am a little the same way, if i cant make decent money on a shoot, i'd rather go golfing that day and wait for a better opportunity to come along.

i do think the agents largely are to blame for the possible exuberant rates paid to "talent" in southern california. but it all comes down to supply and demand.

He's probably a shitty photographer, otherwise he could find lots of decent, semi-experienced and serious models who would DO tfp and he doesn't want to admit that he needs pros to make his crap pics look halfway marketable. Nervous newbies rarely know how to pose, look natural, seductive, etc. especially if the cameraman is a talentless asshole who can't shoot or direct or appreciate what good models have to offer.

I had a model turn down $1,200 same day cash for a boy girl scene for one of shoots yesterday.

Well as we say out here... "there are two rules about shooting in jersey & new york. 1. this aint LA. & 2. This aint LA."

And you can tell by my sites we dont have any problems getting girls. 5 years of pimpin it core.
Duke

Ok, so you want to pay girls peanuts and make thousands from it? Does it seem correct? They are the ones being "used"/have to deal with the reputation. It's a tougher life than you think and they deserve every penny they ask. If it's too much for you, don't whine, find someone who is willing to do something for the price you want. I respect the girls in this industry for what they are doing and they are definitely not overpaid...

Sounds that you don't really respect the women you work with in this industry, so why the fuck are you doing it? You know how hard it is to tell your parents and friends what you do for a living? And what they treat you like after that? People recognizing you on the street? Think about it. Without them we wouldn't even have a product.

If girls are creeped out by the photographer they will quote much higher rates too. I saw this all the time when we were shooting content, and most of the time because I was a female photog and made the girls comfortable, they would do more for less and be happy with it because they were treated respectfully and well.

I am paying more for a hooker these days :1orglaugh

It all depends on how strong your pimp hand is...

I totally agree here!

Just about every producer I know is money hungry and stingy. Instead of making a "decent" wage and paying their models a decent wage, they want to keep all of the money to themselves by cutting corners and paying the talent peanuts.

I had a producer friend of mine call me a while back bragging about how much he got paid for a shoot and how many corners he had cut and how much money he was going to profit from the shoot because of it. It's totally ridiculous to have this mind set. Incidentally, the client thought the content was crap and never hired the guy again. Had he been not so stingy, cut less corners and taken a decent profit instead of trying to take it all....he could have had a long term relationship with the client that produced lots of business.

I have lots of respect for girls who work in this industry. They are not all perfect but I think they deserve good pay for what they do especially if the producer is making bank off of them.

supply and demand

No union no strike....but thats called collusion and it is illegal and actionable. The producers cannot get together and set talent rates. There are also Sherman and Clayton Anti-Trust Acts implications to even making that statement on a public message board.

ZING! POW! :helpme

+1
Duke