This thread delivers. Or rather, delivers what was already delivered a thousand times before.

sales are down?

When people complain about their sales being low, it is because they're too busy jerking off on GFY complaining about shit instead of WORKING.

I am busting my ass off 12-16 hours EVERY DAY, updating my sites, doing trades, or trying to and am constantly building new sites and shit as well as expanding into other niches and arenas previously not worked in...

Yes, I have to work MORE to make money, but the $$ is still there and I fully intend on squeezing every fucking penny I can out of every single user that lands on any of my sites or pages...

When was the last time you got off your fucking fat ass to spend a few hours arranging trades or link swaps?? Many of you are too fucking lazy and just slap up a linkex and then leave, doing nothing more than posting thousands of times your useless linkex spam farm url..

When was the last time you updated your blog, or were you too busy posting on GFY wasting time and MONEY while your blog was fed via RSS.

When was the last time you looked out of the box and tried something new without copying someone else or doing the same shit everyone else is doing?

When was the last time you analyzed your SE traffic to ascertain what it is your traffic wants so that you can provide it to them.

When was the last time you analyzed your SERP and keyword positions so to better your own rank and position, or were you too fucking busy trying to bring down your competitors.

Face it, the nature of this business is EXTREMELY cut throat and it will NEVER come together as a whole to put an end to many things that affect it.. Sure small groups will band together, but let's face it.. It's every man for himself... Fuck what everyone else is doing.. What are YOU going to do to make sure YOU are making money.

Stop looking for an angle or an out or any other scape goats and just WORK!!!!!!

When you find something that is making YOU money, you don't go around telling everyone.

You want to make money?? Drop the bigger sponsors and promote the smaller less promoted ones instead..

Drop the sponsors that do promos, contests and bonus days.. Those are a CLEAR INDICATION that you will NOT make any money.. What fucking makes you think you'll make money with that if everyone else and their fucking mother is promoting the same fucking shit!! Promote something the others are NOT!!

Just get off your fucking lazy fat ass and WORK instead of pissing and moaning about the goddamn tubes on GFY..

You fucking retards are the ones telling the surfers about the tubes by constantly announcing and posting them here... GFY is the LARGEST PORN SURFERS FORUM IN THE WORLD, yet you dumb fucks find it a good idea to alert everyone the creation of yet another source of fucking free porn.

If you're not making money, then you're definitely not WORKING.... Tubes are not to blame, nor is the economy... YOU ARE TO BLAME!

Word. I'm starting a 2nd paysite of my all original material and have a mainstream site in the works. It's a LOT of fucking work.

Your numbers are wrong.

TORRENTS, REPRESENT AT LEAST 80% of the online porn Illegal downloads, via azureus, and file sharing via RapidShare, depositfiles, etc.

Tubes are NOTHING when you compare them with TORRENTS and File Sharing via forums. I repeat, Tubes are nothing in comparisson to Torrents and File Sharing. More than 90% of the webmasters have the inverse picture there and subestimate torrents and rapidshare links via forums.. And over estimate tubies.

Since most people in the biz have no fucking idea about this, then we are FAR AWAY to even TRY to solve the problem.

Says the man that started a thread here wanting to own a bot on ICQ. :1orglaugh

"I'm just a sexy girl." hahahahaha

Now you're an expert on the industry?

Gimme a break...

Dude, get over it you asshole.. that was what, 7 years ago.. Whoopey doo, I chatted with a bot.. Grow the fuck up

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

That has a nice ring to it.

But seriously, how do you go from chatting with a bot to being an expert on the industry???

Seriously, you think that everyone's sales are down because we are not working hard enough? tubes, torrents, the shitty economy,

none of that has anything to do with it?

is that what you are saying?

Simple logic disproves that. :2 cents: :2 cents:


I'd also like to say that congrats to you for working harder and actually making some money in this biz :thumbsup,

But the fact of the matter is, no matter how hard you are working now and however much income you are getting from it, you are still not profiting as much as you could be if it was not for the problems many have described in the posts above.

Everyone's sales are down, from paysites, to content producers, to the card processors. There is a huge chunk of pie missing that people can get for free now.

That money is HISTORY.

None of us will ever see it again.

and it's just going to get worse.

:2 cents::2 cents:

Are you fucking illiterate? You're asking me what I said? Why do I need to say it twice? Are you that fucking stupid that I need to provide you with clarification?

Apparently you do need clarification, since you completely got what I said all wrong.. Nice of you to add things I didn't even say or suggest.. That's typical of you.

no, 4chan is bigger, but they already know the sauce for all the free pron


your other point is irrelevant to the tube/torrent issue though, so you say that you have to work like a dog for 18 hours a day, imagine how rich you would be if sales weren't slow? your working 18 hours a day doesn't change the reality of the situation, it just means that you are working like a dog for what you can squeeze out of it, good for you, but it doesn't change the fact that the tubes etc have decimated the industry :2 cents:

Correct, HOWEVER, I realize that bitching about it on GFY isn't going to change any of it, so.. I work harder and smarter to overcome it, because this is the ONLY solution.

NOBODY is going to change the reality for you.

Yes tubes have an impact on online adult entertainment sales.
Yes the economy has an impact on sales.
Yes torrents have an impact on sales..

BUT, are they to BLAME!! Who is to blame? Only YOU!! If your sales go down, you find a way to make them go back up.. plain and simple... Nobody is going to give you the answers nor the solutions to the problems you face.. Only YOU can figure out what will increase your profits.. bitching about it isn't going to accomplish anything,,, Especially on the very forum where some of the biggest players in the biz ARE THE ROOT of the problem.

dude:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Would I be making more if tubes and torrents didn't exist? Bet your fucking ass I would... but that's the past.. That's not the reality, so, in order to overcome it, I must work harder and smarter in order to overcome this obstacle that was put in my way.

2007 was much more than 2008.. Many things had an impact.. however, the changes I made within my methods will make 2009 a record year.


We all can sit here and complain.. we always do... but look what's being accomplished....



NOTHING!

You are still a clown dude:

You said quote: "Tubes are not to blame, nor is the economy... YOU ARE TO BLAME!"

Did you not say that?

You are the one fucked up! (still) after 7 years :1orglaugh

Anyone can clearly see that I did indeed say exactly that, but unfortunately, your literacy is a problem since you now a second time have come here to ask me what I said.

I'm just a sexy girl.

imo flip the torrents with the xsales. People that use torrent never have and never will pay for porn.

Anyone that says tubes don't effect the industry in a massive way is insane.

I gotta say, that was one of GFY's classic threads, I think Spacedog himself would have to admit that

There is no reason for the consumer to whip out the credit card for porn anymore. Why should they? everything is free!

Wake up and run your business like a business before it's too late. Take a lesson or two from the corporate world.

This business is packed to the gills with short sighted people (tube site operators that allow user uploads, torrents, forced cross sales, hidden cross sales etc..) that will either piss off the customer so they don't return or continue to give away free long length videos to the masses in hopes of gaining a few extra sales to cams/dating sites at the expense of the industry. In essence..they are willing to kill off any chance business longevity for a quick buck. Why would anybody pay for it if you can get it free?

Because the simpletons refuse to look past the next billing cycle, the only fix is to be self regulation possibly through some kind of an elected council and a return to censored tours/previews of old.
But...there would always be the cheaters. They would have to be shunned and nobody should work with them. Don't sell them content, hosting, etc..

Unfortunately this biz can't or won't do it. It is doomed to let greed and continued stupidity overrule common sense and ultimately this biz will consume itself. No government interaction needed.

I'm done venting....carry on.
:2 cents:

I agree tubes are a huge problem in this industry and will be until the laws are changed, but imho I think that file sharing forums are a lot worse than tubes:2 cents:

The difference is file sharing forums are not being shoved down everyone's throats like the tube sites are.

File sharing forums are also bad yes, but they are for the more tec savy user.

Like torrents or usenet, etc etc

Tubes with full length videos are popping up everywhere and taking a big slice of the pie (and giving it away)

Yeah and tubes are very easy for the user, your grandmother can use a tube.

I don't think her nursing home has hi-speed internet yet. :1orglaugh

j/k my granny still lives on her own in her own condo, still drives herself, and believe it or not still drinks occasionally (scotch & soda) & smokes cigs every day. (since she was 25) she's 88 now.

born in 1921 and went through the last depression.

which was a lot tougher than this one.

You have a very good point there BV and I do agree with you, Tubes are a lot easier for the surfer to access and use, One click and they are watching a full clip, blown their load and will never pull their credit card out to pay for porn again,

But also it doesn't take them very long to become tech savvy these days :( It just takes one click of a mouse to download a full clip or dvd in HD quality then they can watch it anytime they like :(

I think you guys are selling the impact of filesharing forums a little short

this is where the huge growth in piracy will be this year, tubes will be huge because that will be the first place that new internet users (which used to be worth gold to us) get their porn, but filesharing through rapidshit and megauploadgs are getting to be the norm, and you are starting to more and more see links to it dropped all over the place, blogs, forums, comments on sites, more and more you see site rips and gallery and movie rips being shared through the hosts like rapidshit and that is a huge problem, because it is so user friendly that any computer beginner can click on a rapidshit link and figure out how to get their free porn fix, and it is all member area stuff :2 cents:

:2 cents::2 cents:

ND owns bigtits.com

Fucking tubes.

So we will warm them up with free full length tubes. then they will want more and better quality, so they will move on to the torrents and file sharing.

then the tubes will start giving away full length HD streaming with a download option

Hey, why don't we just send a hooker over to their house to suck them off also?

This fucking shit sucks ass and the Live Cam sites and Dating Sites are laughing all the way to the bank.


note: Just for the record (I am not talking about tubes with just teaser clips)

You are absolutely 100% right on this. Tube sites even with full length unlicensed videos offer essentially a random selection of videos that may not satisfy even a casual porn viewer. Torrents and forums have search engines that offer a user *exactly* what they want in terms of the exact DVD movie, a particular site rip or a starlet or director's name. This is a much more dangerous thing since a casual or serious collector can often find exactly what they want for free rather than paying for it which they may very well otherwise be willing to do.

Sales were already down more then 85 % because of TGPs so you fail... old days convertions haven othing to do with today's.

Yes, that is exactly right...
EXCEPT for one little problem.

If the content is unprotected it quickly is no longer exclusive as it will be on every tube and torrent site within hours of being in the members area. Believe me, I found that out and started protecting my stuff and watched sales go back up.

Well...at least until the economy collapsed. :disgust

Well if all of the tubes/torrents paid for and licensed their content then this would primarily be a affiliate only issue and those who are actually pornographers would be fine. However this is not a fight about traffic and who has it. It is about not paying for the right to use the content. Most pornographers could care less what tube/torrent site owners were doing with the content as long as they were being paid their licensing fee and the license terms where being upheld. As it currently stands though there is no real way to play in this market as a pornographer with copyright laws as they are.

As for bitching about it, it helps relieve the stress and lets some steam out. Perhaps if your lucky you may influence a few others and get a few more to not promote someone that encourages or supports the theft.
Then no amount of extra work, harder work and so forth helps the problem and the losses when you are more than an affiliate and an actual pornographer. You spend money to produce a quality product and then someone else comes along, steals it and then begins to profit off of it themselves cutting you out and not paying you for the right to do it. No amount of extra work makes up for that.

"mmmfmfmmmff,"

mumbles an agreement and then goes off to jerk off to some free tube porn

Don't blame Tube sites for our inability to compete with them. If members who were paying for content are now going to Tube sites then the sponsors of those sites are to blame. And the affiliates who sent the traffic. Our short sighted greed is yo blame for the slow down of sales.

Because if a site that converts like shit, supports thousands who will not spend to get one who will, has the biggest mish mash of pulp content, delivered off slow erratic servers and all in a crap resolution is taking our paying members then we are to blame.

No one else, not Tubes, not the advertisers, not the affiliates opening Tube sites and not the members. Our inability to compete with shit has shown us up for what we truly are.

An industry that can only survive when it's customers have to buy.

you have to offer a better product than the tubes, and have to lower your prices, business has to evolve that way or else they'll die.

And when the tube/torrent takes your products?
Also what price do you suggest we charge to compete with free?

Good post BV and there are a couple more, but this one is good and deserves answering.

The truth is the people who own Craig list don't give a shit about this argument and if your point was right we would all still be working in the dark ages. The Luddites used the same argument against the cloth looms. They lost that fight.

So is the argument to go back to 10 second clips on MPGs? Because the people running the Tube sites will not follow it.

Seriously these guys are our friends and the ones we want on Tube sites. We should use them to close Tubes. Remember "traffic" is just a cost until it buys something. Traffic is the route to profit, not the final solution. That's the problem with many of the people here. Plus the fact that their level of porn expertise leaves them with only this market to target.

And now you see why content is King, OK good content that appeals to the surfer more than what he can get for free on a Tube site. Because if your business is based on selling something the most important person in that business is the customer. We as an industry spend 3-4 times more on what happens outside our members areas. We spend a fortune on going to shows, skinning boards, paying affiliates, supporting affiliates, giving them all the tools they need and the rest. We then cut the costs of the members areas. And we moan when our customers prefer the experience of a Tube site to the experience of a paysite.

But it's not our fault is it?

And what are we doing about it?

At least the Luddites went out and smashed up the looms. We have done the opposite we have supported Tube sites.. Yes all the moaning amounts to nothing and we as an industry have supported Tube sites.

We post on a board that has made it clear it supports Tubes and those who support them.


Most sponsors have done little to nothing to win back lost customers. Showing me one or two that have does nothing to disprove that point.

Most sponsors are cutting spending on their members areas and spending more on "traffic"

Most sponsors are offering longer and longer clips to Tubes, legal or not.

Most sponsors who used to spend on custom content have stopped all together, few have moved to buying non exclusive. Some have just cut the budget to each scene. So the quality of "bought" content has little to offer against free content. To the members.

I have said it before and it's ignored. But I will say it again.

There is only one way to bring down Tube sites, legal or illegal, taking customers away from us. That is to make those sites unprofitable by winning back the customers who will pay and leaving them with those who will not.

Nothing else will work.

Anyone flaming me can prove me wrong by telling us what will work.

The reply from After Shock Media shows you how little some really understand. He has no solution and continues to flame the only solution.

AFS here are a few things you can do. Sell members areas full of content that's worth buying, not content shot on a budget that makes producing quality impossible. Stop asking content providers to shoot 4-5 solo girl masturbation scenes in a day for $1200 to $2000.

Tell shooters to send home crap girls. And send home crap shooters. The problem is there are too many sites full of content that's produced badly and not worth buying in the eyes of the customers. And there is the problem, it has nothing to do with Tubes, nothing to do with legal or illegal content and nothing to do with traffic. It's about customer satisfaction and most people in this business are clueless about that.

99% and more of the people surfing the Adult Net will not buy porn. Yet we spend 35% of our turnover on them. OK the figures can be adjusted, most understand. Here is the problem and the cause.

99% of the people selling porn don't have a clue about the 1% who buy.

And here you see the problem. The number of people who see Tubes as the future rather than the customers who spend money.

And here is the solution. Stop spending money time and effort on those people and start spending it on those who do spend money. Leave the freeloaders to the Tubes and let profit and loss do the rest.

The belief that HD is the solution has been blown out of the water by the rise of Tubes.

Yes a lot of moaning and no solutions.