Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345549)

I understand the concept. Not all concept apply to all business :winkwink:

Originally Posted by XXXMovie4M (Post 15345330)

so if you had a store that kept getting broken into would the solution be to stop offering products that thieves want to steal?

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345563)

I was referring to paysites.

Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 15345557)

Well if this is going to spin out to the music industry maybe the content of what the big music industry is pushing is the problem.

The music industry at large is not meeting the demand and is ignoring what the audience wants. I think Itunes is merely a fad and a bandwagon for "popular" music. The music is not popular it is force fed.

If you bought a Metallica Album lately and think thats metal thats fine but there are a shit ton of way better metal bands these days and many of them are using independent means to reach thier audiences.

The music industry for years now has attempted to stem and bottle neck independent music and each year independent artists gain ground on the internet.

DRM wasnt the problem, Digital distribution wasnt the problem. Sure the Larger music labels cried about losing money on the internet to piracy and yeah they did lose to piracy but they also failed to meet the audiences appetite for the different genre's of music.

Just from my own music tastes I listen to things hardly anyone has ever heard of infact its a style of music called Down Tempo, artists like Spore, Giocomo Bondi, Air, Kaskade and many others most probably never heard of. It's a great form of music and relaxing yer totally ignored by the music industry at large.

Anyways just saying when a service or evenb a band offers the audience what they are looking for and the style they want... The audiences will indeed pay the price.

Piracy can be slowed but never will it be halted but more than those two things most business in adult and music for that matter just miss thier audiences by a very wide margin by not providing what thier audiences expect and want.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345507)

If you are serious about this business and about your future in it read this article.
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/16-03/ff_free

You can deny things all you want however if you sit down and read this article and then think about our industry you'll see where things are headed. The key is what you do with that information and how you plan and build your future.

Originally Posted by mynameisjim (Post 15345567)

The best part about these threads is that everyone is trying to beat the tubes.

If there was a tube site in the Alexa top 50 giving away stolen Hollywood movies and TV shows it would get shut down in 30 days or less.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345577)

I agree 100%. Look at our industry. You have far too many large programs going around saying FUCK THE SURFER! The surfer rarely is treated properly for the money they pay us. And now we are crying when they are turning around and going to tube sites for their porn. It's our own fault.

That said those of us producing and delivering content that the members are requesting and desiring are still doing very well.

Originally Posted by GonZo (Post 15345574)

Your question didnt say paysite and its certainly not for free.

While your there get your own legal tube site too....

http://tubefeeder.aebn.net/

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 15345588)

Dude you could treat the customer wonderful,free will always beat you.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 15345588)

Dude you could treat the customer wonderful,free will always beat you.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 15345583)

I know you are young but I assume you remember the dot com boom? They said everything on the net was going to be free and ads will pay for it all it failed.That basic business principles dont apply anymore an they were wrong.
The problem is too few of the big players are willing to draw aline in the sand. Companies basically fund illegal tubes,forum, p2p with ads and they are still embraced by this industry. Do you see how not smart of move that is?
Also porn survived because it was sold behind closed doors and darkened windows. Give it all away and eventually it will be banned off the net. Also that guy who wrote the article sells nothing so his opinion matters why?

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345604)

Free may beat me. But by doing things the way we are we'll still be in business while free will put alot of others out of business.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345598)

I know it didn't. That was my mistake.

If I'm not mistaken AEBN works on a VOD model right? I work on a paysite model which relies heavily on retention. There is no doubt AEBN relies on repeat business as well. However in the VOD market as far as I know the key to repeat business is great content delivered efficiently during the time period that the surfer is paying for. Also all those that AEBN competes with use DRM as well. I believe Adult Rental and Hot Movies both do (I may be wrong).

I asked my question because Twistys is a Top Tier site. We compete with other Top Tier sites. I research and watch very carefully what our competition is doing. From my research not a single one of our competitors is using DRM. Also, our research with our members shows that our members don't want it either. You add those two together and my conclusion is if I want Twistys to remain a Top Tier paysite I can not use DRM at this moment.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345623)

Of course it's a huge mistake as an industry. The problem is for every long term minded person in this industry there are 100 short term minded people willing to burn everything to the ground to make a quick buck. No matter what you and I take a stand on there will always be a line up of others willing to take that business. From tubes, to p2p, to beastiality, to spam, to cross sales, to straight up fraud. No matter what I think is wrong someone else has no problem with it and will fund it.

Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 15345587)

PS: This is why Twistys has kicked so much ass and why so many other companies fail miserably. COmpanies like Twistys and FTV have out performed the likes of Playboy and Hustler and many of the so called big programs by huge margins and how did they do it? They delivered a service that thier audiences expects when shelling out cash.

Do many of you honestly think some affilaite program that just jumps on the scene with 20 niches buys a fucken GFY skin and says go get em actually makes it huge? Those companies are dead already and are a dime a dozen.

Guys that know thier niche well do very well and thats why many of you scratch yer heads wondering how do people make it in this business! Its easy. Know your audience, enjoy what you do and really focus on providing a quality service to your intended audience. Surfers can give two shits about 20 site pass deals these days.

Sorry to gush about Twisty's yet again Shap but what you do is exemplery in providing what your audiences want, I can say the same about Castle Archives as well I suppose:)

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 15345630)

You are right and these threads just make me sad. we could be masters of the universe and they are going to fuck it all up.

Originally Posted by KillerK (Post 15345167)

adapt or die!

err Skate or Die!

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345646)

The sad thing is tubes are doing 1% the damage these companies banging cards are doing. I estimate at least 25,000 to 40,000 surfers a day who joined a paysite are getting hit with fraudulent charges. Those are all people that will NEVER EVER EVER join a paysite again. The cost is a huge hit to you and I meanwhile these assholes are making millions stealing from people.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345646)

The sad thing is tubes are doing 1% the damage these companies banging cards are doing.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 15345627)

it wont beat you those who are going to pay are going to pay. People forget how much of that golden tube traffic is even old enough to have a credit card ?
I think if you have what people that buy porn want and dont fuck them. You will keep making a living til governments start filtering us all off the net because of the tubefest that's coming. I think we are losing the middle of the roaders that used to pay but now there is a easy way to get a free fix.They are gone.

I dont understand you keep talking about free is the way its going but you say you are having banner months. That means people buy your product in large numbers. Dont believe the hype of free is the answer.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 15345661)

I agree, we get guys who write us and want promises we are not going to hit their credit card with a bunch of charges.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345674)

I don't think free is the way to go. But I'm very aware that things are being pushed towards free. So as a result I'm adapting and changing our business model to accommodate for that. As a result I've improved our product. We are working harder than ever and producing and delivering a better product yet still charging the same cost. So again there is the push towards free in action. I'm not offering Twistys for free but every month that goes by our members enjoy more than ever before.

Bandwidth is a huge example of that. We are able to make more now than 2 years ago because bandwidth has come down so much it's allowing us to do things that never before were possible. We can burn 4 and 5 times the bandwidth that we did 2 years ago for the same price. If used properly that is a huge advantage to building and increasing business.

I won't lie. Prior to September we weren't having banner months. I would say Spring and summer were somewhat rough for us. Our sales and revenue were completely flat lined. When we saw that we decided to dig deeper and really analyze our company and where the industry is and where it is going. We worked very hard to repositioning ourselves and try to adapt to the new reality our industry is faced with. As a result we've had back to back record sales, rebills and revenue months in November and December.

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 15345662)

I don't condone credit card fraud, but that statement may be the dumbest thing I have ever read. 1% my ass!!

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 15345690)

We are doing the same thing, giving more sites for the same money.We raised the price when we combined the both sites so they get more for their money and rebills are sticking much longer.By the summer they will also be getting a third site included in the price.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 15345661)

I agree, we get guys who write us and want promises we are not going to hit their credit card with a bunch of charges. Its very fucked up. OR my friend had a guy bought $250 worth of clips from her clips4sale store. He writes her looking for more. She feels bad and tells him join my site you get them all for $24.95. He said he was burned so bad he will never join a membership site again.

Originally Posted by mynameisjim (Post 15345567)

The best part about these threads is that everyone is trying to beat the tubes.

If there was a tube site in the Alexa top 50 giving away stolen Hollywood movies and TV shows it would get shut down in 30 days or less.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345696)

You obviously have absolutely no idea as to what's happening. When the FTC, The Government, Visa, and Mastercard get involved there is a MAJOR problem. Tube sites aren't attracting legal prosecution and change the way the rampant credit card fraud is. Our industry is about to go thru a major major change and it has absolutely nothing to do with Tube site.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345711)

Btw BFT3K I was looking over your site. You really should improve your tour navigation and join process. I'm guessing you are losing 10 to 20% sales with your current setup.

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 15345712)

If credit card companies get tired of chargebacks and fraud, then it will trickle down to the processing companies, and they will (hopefully) clamp down on the culprits. Perhaps you will not be able to find a processor that allows ANY cross sales in the near future - checked, unchecked, above or below the fold - none at all, which is fine by me.

On the other hand, the absurd proliferation of free porn, everywhere you look, with zero age verification, will ABSOLUTELY get the attention of govts the world over much sooner.

In a way I almost hope it comes to that, on both counts - no more cross sales, period - and no porn without a credit card for age verification. That would be cool by me!

Originally Posted by DeanCapture (Post 15345699)

Is giving more sites the answer? Or is giving a better site the answer? Just thinking out loud....

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345725)

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for porn without CC.

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 15345723)

I agree with you 100% on that. I do everything myself, so the sites are very basic. I am working on some new layouts and ideas. Thanks for the constructive criticism.

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 15345733)

To clarify - I was saying that the use of a credit card equals age verification. You have to be 18 or older to own a credit card.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 15345729)

What I dont understand is we have had so much innovation in our industry. Why a bullet proof drm never came out of that.The person who did that well and made in affordable would be very rich.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345736)

The most important thing is when someone clicks JOIN take them to the join. I would make that one of your priorities.
I go to bootie movies. Click join then get a pic that says click here to join all sites, then i go to pecker movies and have to click again. too many clicks. Cut down on that and it should add sales to your bottom line almost instantly.

Also, you preview trailers are dated. 1.2 meg trailer was ok in 2001. Make your trailers 640x480 (hopefully your members area video is that size as well) and at least 5 to 10megs in size. you'll see a HUGE HUGE jump in conversions.

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 15345751)

All of the membership videos are at least 640x480, and many are now 720x480 as well. I hope to offer higher resolution clips later this year, but you are correct - my preview clips are all at half size.

I will take your advise Shap, on a number of the points you are making. I thank you again (for real) for your constructive criticism and suggestions.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345756)

No problem :winkwink: It's usually small things that make a big difference.

I like the boobs on your site :thumbsup

Originally Posted by DeanCapture (Post 15345466)

Interesting. I'd love to see some BIG sites that use DRM as well, adult and/or mainstream.

Originally Posted by KillerK (Post 15345167)

adapt or die!

Originally Posted by DeanCapture (Post 15345447)

Why are you such a prick all the time? Do me a favor, keep your fucking black mouth shut if you don't have anything nice to say to me. :321GFY

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15345451)

Ok I'm not trying to be a dick to anyone here. But here is an important question.

Name one TOP TIER site that uses DRM.

Originally Posted by BVF (Post 15345868)

I'm a prick to people who have been a prick to me....

But now that we have decided for me to keep my black mouth shut, make sure that you keep your white hole shut when it comes to me and you will never get a harsh comment from me again.

Originally Posted by mynameisjim (Post 15345848)

I would still really love to have someone show me some examples of how everything naturally moves towards being free. And no, linking to a 2 year old article in Wired doesn't count.

Where is all this free shit? I pay more for every single thing than I did 10 years ago.

10 years ago I had maybe 1 or 2 non-essential monthly bills. Now I have like 20.

10 years ago I had a blockbuster card. Now I have a blockbuster card, a netflix membership, I buy shows from itunes. Where the fuck is all this free shit everyone seems so convinced the market is moving towards?

Show me examples where valuable content turned free and was a huge success.

Originally Posted by Varius (Post 15345903)

wwe.com's video-on-demand service (think it's called WWE 24/7) uses a flawless DRM.