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JamesK 01-18-2009 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iMind (Post 15350413)
You don't use CSS for shit, I've seen your code.

You use dreamweaver with CSS option turned on...which does it for you, cause you don't know how to do anything besides set font colors :1orglaugh
And any real designer knows exactly why you use CSS.. but you're not a real designer.

A real designer can code, you cannot.

:1orglaugh

Ethersync 01-18-2009 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 15350006)
OH god...
Here we go again.

No...
CSS does not make SEO any better. Thats such an Internet fallacy.
Search Engines dismiss any mark-up it finds whether it is Tabled or CSS.
It makes no fucking difference.

I am not going to get into why or how...
But suffice to say the claim that CSS is SEO friendly is pure bullshit.

It is also safe to say you are not the first guy to get trashed by a CSS designer

AlienQ invented SEO :thumbsup

Ethersync 01-18-2009 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killswitch (Post 15350058)
The price is wrong Bob!

CSS/DIV's allow you to position your CONTENT at the top of the file, and NAVIGATION at the bottom, but still display your NAVIGATION on the left of the screen.

Therefor SEO is better by giving your content to the spiders before they see your navigation.

Correct :2 cents:

Killswitch - BANNED FOR LIFE 01-18-2009 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 15350072)
But it makes no difference to the spider in the first place as all mark up information is IGNORED! Spiders do not count mark up language in the Document weight.

Ummmm...

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/ind...ere-bots-stop/

Quote:

Thus, this experiment established the fact that the leading search engines differ considerably in terms of the the amount of page text they're able to crawl. For Yahoo!, the limit is 210KB; for Google, 520KB; and for MSN, it's 1030KB. Pages smaller than these sizes are indexed fully, while any text that extends beyond those limits will not be indexed.
Your design has tables, than that means that the page is only gonna show so much before being cut off... now can you position your content IN THE SOURCE above all your navigation but still display your content as if it was in tables, with just tables? NO.

CSS/DIV you can, which means BETTER SEO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandman! (Post 15350088)
This thread has nothing to do with SEO and if you think google prefers CSS over tables your an idiot.

Read above, Mr. Know-It-All.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15350446)
Correct :2 cents:

:2 cents:

Blingbaby 01-18-2009 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandman! (Post 15349715)
trying to do some simple shit sucks fucking ass

i will never take a css design from a designer ever again....

You're going to have to, the new html specs will push quite a bit more into CSS.

sortie 01-18-2009 05:32 PM

I hear a lot of theories here but have yet to see even one link to a google page that
explains any of it.

So I think people tried certain things and it seems to work for them and now they
believe strongly in what they did. Not really a scientific test.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 01-18-2009 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killswitch (Post 15350541)
Ummmm...

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/ind...ere-bots-stop/



Your design has tables, than that means that the page is only gonna show so much before being cut off... now can you position your content IN THE SOURCE above all your navigation but still display your content as if it was in tables, with just tables? NO.

CSS/DIV you can, which means BETTER SEO.



Read above, Mr. Know-It-All.



:2 cents:

Awright I am done with this subject but just to quoate the artical...

"Here's how this experiment was actually conducted. I took 25 pages of different sizes (from 45 KB to 4151 KB) and inserted unique, non-existent keywords into each page at 10 KB intervals (that is, a unique keyword was included after each 10 KB of text). These keywords were auto-generated exclusively for this experiment and served as "indexation depth marks". "

Non exhistant keywords are not mark up language.
Meaning simply he used words that had no meaning.

THis page demonstrates nothing but text weight of a document and how far a Search Engine will get of the text information. THis example you show means nothing in regards to mark up language and how SE's interpret them as document weight.

Document weight is actual readable Text not the mark up language.

You guys are not worth debating obviously you can only resort to name calling and snide remarks while remaining ignorant.

Deej 01-18-2009 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 15350629)
You guys are not worth debating obviously you can only resort to name calling and snide remarks while remaining ignorant.

I think youre the only one doing this...

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 01-18-2009 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deej (Post 15350652)
I think youre the only one doing this...

Do not know why you get on my case I looked at most youir stuff you still use tables big time. Please step off my cock.

I got no idea why you goto hunt and pester me and every shit thing I say...

Cant you just put me on ignore for fucks sakes?

sortie 01-18-2009 05:58 PM

One thing for sure in this thread is that AlienQ knows how to read the links
better than some people who are posting them.

MetaMan 01-18-2009 06:00 PM

maybe stop being such a cheap ass and hire a designer who knows how to do CSS properly?

Deej 01-18-2009 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 15350663)
Do not know why you get on my case I looked at most youir stuff you still use tables big time. Please step off my cock.

I got no idea why you goto hunt and pester me and every shit thing I say...

Cant you just put me on ignore for fucks sakes?

how many times do I have to say

I USE TABLES EVERY DAY - CSS IS JUST SUPERIOR TO TABLES!!!!

ALTHOUGH CSS IS SUPERIOR TO TABLES - YOU CAN STILL USE THEM JUST FINE IN MOST CASES.

HOWEVER IF YOU WOULD LIE TO STEP IT UP AND BROADEN YOUR HORIZON, CLIENTELE AND DYNAMIC CAPABILTIES OF ANY AND OR ALL WEBSITES - USE CSS WHERE NECESSARY!!!!

JD 01-18-2009 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deej (Post 15350680)
how many times do I have to say

you're better off kicking yourself in the nuts a few times man. just give up....

Voodoo 01-18-2009 06:08 PM

I like to style my CSS with tables.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 01-18-2009 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deej (Post 15350680)
how many times do i have to say



however if you would lie to step it up and broaden your horizon, clientele and dynamic capabilties of any and or all websites - use css where necessary!!!!

i do use css where necessary you fucking ignorant bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!

JamesK 01-18-2009 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo (Post 15350704)
I like to style my CSS with tables.

that will actually be possible soon :1orglaugh

Deej 01-18-2009 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 15350740)
i do use css where necessary you fucking ignorant bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never said you didnt... I said your theories of CSS are wrong...

whos really the one name calling and ignorant about what they are spouting off about again?

Killswitch - BANNED FOR LIFE 01-18-2009 09:36 PM

Ugh, I give up, good luck Deej. May the force be with you.

BSleazy 01-18-2009 11:18 PM

Doesn't CSS make it easy for large sites to make one minor change and have it automatically apply to 100's or 1000's of pages on a site?

Deej 01-18-2009 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCyber (Post 15351630)
Doesn't CSS make it easy for large sites to make one minor change and have it automatically apply to 100's or 1000's of pages on a site?

yes - one of the many advantages

add some php includes for say headers or footers and youre golden... easy maintenance :thumbsup

munki 01-18-2009 11:56 PM

This thread delivers...ish

Tempest 01-19-2009 12:13 AM

CSS IS better for SEO IF you know what you're doing. A site layout done with a table CAN be just as effective in SEO IF you know how the spiders handle tables.

All the other stuff is just crap and misleading at best. eg. a typical spreadsheet type display of data using purely CSS will end up with far more on page code than using a table WITH CSS. Using a table without CSS would be the worst.. Bottom line, use both intelligently.

Deej 01-19-2009 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest (Post 15351734)
CSS IS better for SEO IF you know what you're doing. A site layout done with a table CAN be just as effective in SEO IF you know how the spiders handle tables.

All the other stuff is just crap and misleading at best. eg. a typical spreadsheet type display of data using purely CSS will end up with far more on page code than using a table WITH CSS. Using a table without CSS would be the worst.. Bottom line, use both intelligently.

Another solid statement...

iMind 01-19-2009 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest (Post 15351734)
All the other stuff is just crap and misleading at best. eg. a typical spreadsheet type display of data using purely CSS will end up with far more on page code than using a table WITH CSS. Using a table without CSS would be the worst.. Bottom line, use both intelligently.

sure, if you have a designer that doesn't know what he's doing..
A good CSS designer can create a hella complicated design in just a few lines of code with CSS

I'm not sure what kinda CSS you've seen, but CSS layouts always yield less code if done correctly.. probably 20% of the code of a tabled design

Code:

<div id="header"></div>
<div class="container">
<div id="left"></div>
<div id="right"></div>
<div class="clear"></div>
</div>
<div id="Footer"></div>


Compare that, to the tabled example below - same layout


<table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
  <tr>
    <td colspan="2"></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td width="20%"></td>
    <td width="80%"></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td colspan="2">&nbsp;</td>
  </tr>
</table>

that's as basic as it gets :2 cents: you can imagine how the tabled layout would multiply in a more complicated case

tranza 01-19-2009 06:26 AM

You have to be pacient with Css sometimes...

fris 01-19-2009 06:30 AM

I remember converting a table design that was 1300+ lines, to pure css turned out to be 65 lines in css

leek 01-19-2009 07:52 AM

This argument is so 1998.

Ethersync 01-19-2009 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 15350006)
OH god...
Here we go again.

No...
CSS does not make SEO any better. Thats such an Internet fallacy.
Search Engines dismiss any mark-up it finds whether it is Tabled or CSS.
It makes no fucking difference.

I am not going to get into why or how...
But suffice to say the claim that CSS is SEO friendly is pure bullshit.

It is also safe to say you are not the first guy to get trashed by a CSS designer

I have a good friend who has netted 8 figures with mainstream SEO related projects. He tells me it is important to use CSS so you can keep your content at the top. Who am I going to believe? An out of work designer who does $1 banner ads or very successful, and very wealthy, friend who is an expert in the field? 'nuff said... :2 cents:

leek 01-19-2009 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15354873)
I have a good friend who has netted 8 figures with mainstream SEO related projects. He tells me it is important to use CSS so you can keep your content at the top. Who am I going to believe? An out of work designer who does $1 banner ads or very successful, and very wealthy, friend who is an expert in the field? 'nuff said... :2 cents:

CSS does not have ANY affect on SEO. You and your friend are mistaken.

What you are referring to is valid/proper use of HTML tags for semantic purposes. Google and other search engines care about your H tags, strong, em, p, etc. They don't care about whether your text is blue or green. Or whether your DIV is 50px wide.

The reason CSS helps is because you can use all of these tags while still maintaining the look and feel of the design of your page.

And by the way - you made yourself look like a complete tool with this quoted response.

Ethersync 01-19-2009 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leek (Post 15355089)
CSS does not have ANY affect on SEO. You and your friend are mistaken.

What you are referring to is valid/proper use of HTML tags for semantic purposes. Google and other search engines care about your H tags, strong, em, p, etc. They don't care about whether your text is blue or green. Or whether your DIV is 50px wide.

The reason CSS helps is because you can use all of these tags while still maintaining the look and feel of the design of your page.

And by the way - you made yourself look like a complete tool with this quoted response.

I made myself look like a tool by going with what one of the top mainstream seo guys says vs. Alien and you? That's funny.

leek 01-19-2009 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15355152)
I made myself look like a tool by going with what one of the top mainstream seo guys says vs. Alien and you? That's funny.

If this person even exists, you misunderstood what he was trying to say.

Deej 01-19-2009 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leek (Post 15355089)
CSS does not have ANY affect on SEO. You and your friend are mistaken.

What you are referring to is valid/proper use of HTML tags for semantic purposes. Google and other search engines care about your H tags, strong, em, p, etc. They don't care about whether your text is blue or green. Or whether your DIV is 50px wide.

The reason CSS helps is because you can use all of these tags while still maintaining the look and feel of the design of your page.

And by the way - you made yourself look like a complete tool with this quoted response.

Why is it people think css is strictly divisions and text manipulation?

Let me guess, now i could be wrong, but going on a limb here... Do you use css all the time? Have you tried to form any SEO campaigns through a well layed out css based site?

If so, youre not doing it right if you have come to this conclusion... If not, then well, you dont know what youre talking about.

of course unless youre getting extremely technical and saying "the css code itself dosnt effect SEO" - well sure it dosnt, it dosnt even read it... But how the css lays out your info and link placement and such... that is all SEO ... which CAN be magnified through CSS...

Bottom line... CSS is beneficial to use when considering SEO... can you do it without, sure... But CSS will help:thumbsup

besides SEO... its easy maintenance... Cant beat that :thumbsup

StuartD 01-19-2009 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leek (Post 15355089)
Google and other search engines care about your H tags, strong, em, p, etc. They don't care about whether your text is blue or green. Or whether your DIV is 50px wide.

This is the only part of your post which is correct :2 cents:

jwerd 01-19-2009 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandman! (Post 15350057)
not the shit im trying to edit.

if it was tabled i would have 1 table with 3 collums i would create another row and copy the data from first 3 to second 3 edit the text and links and i would be done in 5 min's

with css i have no fucking idea how to do this crap and i gave up after 5 min's of fucking around with it.

In the end css is great for keeping designers busy and me wasting $$$$ to get shit edited i could do myself before css.

Fuck CSS

I still have a bit of trouble with some complex CSS but basic stuf I get. One tool that helps me understand what class a part of my layout belongs to within the css document is Firebug. You can literally roll over each element on your page and it will go directly to the html / css code respectively. :)

http://getfirebug.com/ :thumbsup:thumbsup

Ethersync 01-19-2009 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leek (Post 15355161)
If this person even exists, you misunderstood what he was trying to say.

He exists and it was very clear what he was saying. Obviously, that is one of many reasons to use CSS and many other factors come into play with SEO.

Look kid. You do what you want with your sites, if you even have any. I could care less. My point is I tend to listen to successful friends instead of mentally unstable and broke board personalities like Alien.

leek 01-19-2009 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deej (Post 15355186)
of course unless youre getting extremely technical and saying "the css code itself dosnt effect SEO" - well sure it dosnt, it dosnt even read it... But how the css lays out your info and link placement and such... that is all SEO ... which CAN be magnified through CSS...

So... then you agree? That was the point of my argument. You can say "technically" if you want, but CSS (the technology) doesn't have any benefit on SEO.

I don't think you understood the point of my post. I do only CSS based designs, tables are for tabular data. I am not downplaying the importance of CSS, but using it for the sole purpose to improve SEO is ridiculous and just plain wrong. Re-read my post: valid and standards compliant HTML, proper use of tags for semantic purposes, clean/uncluttered markup - all of this is what is important for SEO, not CSS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartD (Post 15355202)
This is the only part of your post which is correct :2 cents:

[citation needed]

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 01-19-2009 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15355220)
He exists and it was very clear what he was saying. Obviously, that is one of many reasons to use CSS and many other factors come into play with SEO.

Look kid. You do what you want with your sites, if you even have any. I could care less. My point is I tend to listen to successful friends instead of mentally unstable and broke board personalities like Alien.

Dude I never gave you any reason whats so ever to dislike me EVER! I've never said shit about you EVER.
After two days of you saying hateful stupid shit on me now ya earned a reason.
I do think you are an idiot. Sorry.

Don't get mad, I do not like alot of people around here.

leek 01-19-2009 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15355220)
He exists and it was very clear what he was saying. Obviously, that is one of many reasons to use CSS and many other factors come into play with SEO.

Look kid. You do what you want with your sites, if you even have any. I could care less. My point is I tend to listen to successful friends instead of mentally unstable and broke board personalities like Alien.

361 characters and you said absolutely nothing.

BSleazy 01-19-2009 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deej (Post 15351664)
yes - one of the many advantages

add some php includes for say headers or footers and youre golden... easy maintenance :thumbsup

Ya I know this. I was just making more of a statement than a question :)

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 01-19-2009 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leek (Post 15355241)
So... then you agree? That was the point of my argument. You can say "technically" if you want, but CSS (the technology) doesn't have any benefit on SEO.

I don't think you understood the point of my post. I do only CSS based designs, tables are for tabular data. I am not downplaying the importance of CSS, but using it for the sole purpose to improve SEO is ridiculous and just plain wrong. Re-read my post: valid and standards compliant HTML, proper use of tags for semantic purposes, clean/uncluttered markup - all of this is what is important for SEO, not CSS.



[citation needed]

Dude...
Don't bother trying to explaine the whole CSS/Table thing.

Right now CSS is an excellent sales pitch and the whole SEO/CSS thing is very important to the sales pitch these days.

I Initially came out and said CSS /Table makes no difference to SE's. Horrible code is horrible code I linked a few articals and showed that SE spiders read the text of a website, not the mark up. SOmehow my information was takin as an afront to all that is sacred to these punks that aspire to dissect every fucken letter I type.

Do not try and be reasonable it's viewed as a weakness to these pigs...


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