Just his 2nd full day in office and he's signed executive orders to close Guantanamo, close the CIA's "secret prisons" around the world, and banned torture and the harshest interrogation techniques.

Also, his AG designate said under oath that waterboarding is indeed torture and therefore illegal....a question Mukasey and Gonzales wouldn't even answer.

I think opinions of the U.S. around the world have already gone up substantially, and it's only day 2. :thumbsup

They have to give a little to take a lot. For the first few weeks maybe even a month or two they'll make everyone believe he's doing everything right. Then slap us all with a whale. Watch and see. King Obama says it's the thing to do so we should do it. It will be sold as the only way out when it's really not. The worlds financial systems are collapsing for a reason. Because it's being designed that way.

Yes I've noted all that. My question was what do you see it being like at the end of his 2nd term (assuming he gets one)

I love conspiracy theories. Tell us more, please. I want to hear based on the above what you see things like in N America 8 years from now.

:thumbsup

I've already written an answer to that on the first page, the last post was just a follow up based on what he'd done in his second full day.

I would think things will be alot better around here at the end of his second term if he gets one....because in order to get a second term things will have to better around here 4 years from now.
It doesn't seem that likely that things will be alot better 4 years from now and then he drives the bus off the cliff in his 6th year....so if he gets a 2nd term it's most likely because he's doing a good job.

Same reason people name their kids Roosevelt?

These idiots always have something to say. Just replace the names with whatever is currently in the news and something big is happening and we are being lead down the path to destruction, blah blah. When it doesn't happen, they just apply it to the next thing coming down the line. I used to find conspiracy theories interesting but the people who follow them, believe them I have found to be total losers.

US will become part of China, since they will buy US out for the trade deficit...
Dollar will no longer be strongest currency in the world...
....
and mostly nobody gives a shit anyway...

I'll reserve any further comment until after Harper makes his budget announcement. :1orglaugh I'm sure you're going to love it. In the mean time I suggest this video

The Gig is Up.

No theories. It's all conspiracy.

Here's a few others for you.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...74362583451279

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...19560256183936

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...05277695921912

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...19765816415310

I don't get anything out of trying to educate people of whats really going on while they sit around with their thumbs up their ass but I do it anyway. Just trying to redirect traffic from dumb who is following dumber.

But who is dumber, the guy who swallows the conspiracy theories whole (and possibly chokes on them), or the one who takes small bites?

I'm an I'll believe it when I see it kind of guy, not a "some conspiracy-spouting nick on a board called GoFuckYourself said to so I believe it" kind of guy.

Which leads me to wonder, if that's true, why it didn't apply to Bush.

Oh wait, Bush winning his 2nd term in spite of a terrible approval rating was all part of onewebcam's conspiracy. :D

If you didn't watch even one of the videos your a complete waste of time. If you did and you still don't even somewhat understand it then take your pick. You can be dumb or dumber.

People don't like to change leaders in the middle of a war.

Iraq didn't become a quagmire (or at least the public wasn't aware of how bad things were) until after the election.

If the election had been 6 months later, Kerry would have won by a landslide, even though he wasn't a very appealing candidate. :2 cents:

What would be the point?

I watched 9/11 loose change and it raised alot of questions in my mind. I thought something fishy was going on.

Then 6 months later I watched some guys from popular mechanics totally own the loose change guys.

In the youtube age, anyone can make a documentary style film that looks credible, and there are all kinds of idiots who will take that information as gospel and crusade around the web with it.

That's why it's more important now than it ever has been, to be careful what sources you trust. Stick with ones that follow true journalistic standards such as truthfulness, accuracy, objectivity, impartiality, fairness and public accountability.

If what you're reading or watching wouldn't even last a day on wikipedia because it doesn't meet their standards for reliable sources and citations, then it's probably not true. :2 cents:

The popular mechanics crap is made for tv disinfo. The point is what I'm telling you is REAL facts that can't be denied because it IS our history. It's the real deal. You won;t see this stuff on TV because the TV stations in the US are OWNED by the same people who control you via your money. The Money Masters video was made 10 years ago. It tells you what is happening right now. Do you think they are predicting shit or do you think they are looking at real history and real events and telling you what is/was going to happen. It's in the history books. The people admit it themselves in their own books. It can't be denied. This isn't a theory. It's real fucking life.

I'm not going to get into 9-11 discussion. It's not important right now. The important thing is that people need to know whats really going on within our financial system.

The guys who made the loose change video were present and allowed to opportunity to defend their own work.
Made for TV disinfo doesn't allow real debate in the light of day....it's funny that you would call it that because most of the sources you use for information are just made up stuff and only present one flimsy side of the story.

Those guys couldn't defend their work because it wasn't based on any hard evidence or scientific fact and it crumbled under close scrutiny.

The same is true for most of the conspiracy crap you and your ilk believe.

Yeah I'm sure all the TV stations and newspapers and radio stations in the world are owned by people who are "in on it", and that's why only 5 or 6 guys in the world are willing to come forward and tell us the truth. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I'm not going to do this any longer with you, it's like wrestling with a pig in the mud. All that happens is I get muddy, and the pig likes it.

The US will be unrecognizable compared to today.

We will never be able to pay off the debt that gets built up over the next 4-8 years either.

Here's a good tune for that comment. :thumbsup



Only now it's 1 trillion and he's looking at adding more to it.

he's actually got a good point.

see, the elephant puppet fucks you in the ass for a few years, while
the donkey puppet keeps telling you he wouldn't.
so then you tell the puppeteer to put on the donkey puppet,
which then fucks you in the ass for a few years while the elephant
puppet keeps telling you he wouldn't.

since nobody remembers a damn thing earlier than two weeks ago, the system works wonderfully.

I agree very much with what you said. Except for the part I highlighted. The West needs to realise that service industries, banking, insurance and shops will never put right the economic policies of the last 30 years. We all buy in too much from the Third, Second World and Arab nations to get back to a good economic situation. They will realise that lending us the money so we can buy their goods will only work if they use the loans to buy our countries. Yes they will slowly but surely buy us up if we carry on down this road.

Trade needs to be a two way street, we buy $1 worth from you and you buy $1 worth from us. We can't rely on the service type industries I mentioned or technology to keep the balance of payments level. We need to be making goods China, India, Russia, Saudi and a few other places need to buy to get the economy right again.

For 30 years we have been fooled into thinking all was good because we could go to the mall and fill our basket with cheap imported goods while our houses and stocks sky rocketed in value. Welcome to the time to pay the bill.

Can Obama change it?

Not until we realise it's us that needs to change things and he can't without our help.

If you think I'm wrong look at what the West's money has done to these countries that are now lending it back to us.

Good video and shows the problem. But does it show the reason for the problem?

For the last 30 years the West has dreamed it was the top dog by some sort of right. We looked down on the rest of the world as some place to provide us with cheap goods while we sold them our vastly superior technical goods. Well that dream is now being exposed as a dream.

The truth is different. We sent jobs to Mexico, Taiwan and China so we could buy the goods cheaper than we could make them ourselves. And we employed the people who lost their jobs in shops selling those goods, or banks, insurance companies and other service industries.

But it all worked, we were getting lower taxes paid for by increased debt, a bribe to keep us voting for them, and we were all shopping like there was no problem. Welcome to the real world where there are no free lunches.

We now have to pay for all those free lunches, so don't blame anyone but ourselves for swallowing the dream we were something special because we were American, English, etc. Truth is we now owe the under dogs a small fortune.

Will borrowing more get us out of the hole we dug for ourselves? Not if we give it back in tax cuts. Because all that will do is send more people to more malls to buy more Chines T Shirts or coffer percolators. Which is why they loan it to us in the first place.

that video lost me at the line,
"will make economic slaves out of our children."

yeah, that's about to start soon.
hasn't been going on since i was born or nothing.
it's gonna happen cause of obama alone.

This post shows you the problem. Anyone who thinks Obama caused this is a fool. Sorry mate but it's true.

We are to blame by giving ourselves a life style we could not afford and had to borrow from the countries we are now in hock to to support. We are to blame for voting for Governments based on how little tax we would pay, even if the tax cuts were paid for with borrowed money. We are to blame for living the dream that we could send manufacturing jobs to places where workers earned $5 a day and still compete with them. We are to blame for buying those goods. We are to blame for not having Governments who would stick the thieves like the bosses of Enron and Maddorf in jail. Yes the guy that stole billions is sitting in his swanky apartment hiding his wealth while people who trusted his lies are having their homes taken away or living on a worthless pension.

Did you get that? We are to blame for where we are now and passing the blame to Obama is not the solution. We are to blame for thinking Obama is the solution.

What is the solution? Tax to fund people to go to University to learn the skills we need. You want to be a lawyer, tax accountant or doctor you pay for it with your taxes and you pay for the scientists and engineers who will make the goods to get us out of the hole.

We get people who would not be working, not paying taxes and costing us all money to work. Building the infrastructure of our countries. We stop thinking that the "Trickle Down" theory on wealth works. If it did we would not be where we are today. The problem is we need to stop thinking that greed is good.

We need to realise a boss earning $500,000 a year will keep of much of that money as possible and spend more abroad than someone on $25,000 a year. AND he will open a factory or call center in Malaysia and put out of work hundreds of workers in Detroit because he can make more money to keep.

We are in this position today because those people in Detroit now don't have jobs to buy his goods or service he moved to Malaysia. But no worries, he did not let too much trickle down and he's in his walled villa in the Bahamas.

You can't even get a job there, he's got Mexicans working because they're cheaper.

Seriously if you're 35 or younger it has been going on since you were born.

And anyone who thinks they can spend money better than the Government can look around them at the labels of where all the goods they have are made. That's how well we spent our money and the Governments just gave us what we wanted to get elected.

So don't blame them. Democracy is about getting what you vote for.

Don't tell me you believe that stupid shit.

End of an Age. Not the end of the world. Pisces to Aquarius. You missed the starting gun.

I've always thought we needed a special punctuation mark for sarcasm
if we had one, posts like yours would not be necessary.

Sorry if I thought your post was serious. Now you said it was sarcasm I understand it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't most of the debt built up over the course of the Bush administration?

Seems to me I recall much of a large nat'l debt being paid off and under control during Clinton's watch. Of course money is going to have to be spent to bring about the "change" everyone keeps harping about but that shouldn't automatically mean the debt won't at least begin to be dealt with. We should all know by now it's going to take more than one or two terms of a new president to get it under reasonable control. Probably more like 20 terms of 10 presidents.

So you're predicting Obama will pull a "Bush" and increase the debt, and it will be that increase and not the existing debt racked up by the Bush admin that will bury the country?

Interesting take.

Nailed it dead nuts on, every point. (including the last one)

I agree with what Paul posted but I would go a little further and say that if we keep exporting our manufacturing base and keep offering H1B Visas instead of educating our own people... the US is a goner.

Out of our 9 trillion in national debt, 8 trillion of it came under Reagan's watch and George W Bush's watch.

The people screaming out now about the cost of Obama's plans aren't concerned about the deficit or debt per se, they're just pissed off about what the money is being spent on.

If we were adding 5 divisions to the U.S. Army or 5 fighter wings to the Air Force or new aircraft carriers or a missile defense system or doubling the size of the CIA or NSA with the money they'd be all for it regardless of the long term economic consequences.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth... I still stand behind what I said. I am not predicting anything it is his plan.

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/u...s/image002.jpg

Obama's plan adds over 2 trillion to this, this year alone.

The point is it has to stop. Obama is continuing the same trend. You're right it has been going on for many years.

http://www.concordcoalition.org/file...nuary_2009.jpg

http://www.concordcoalition.org/learn/federal-budget

Peter Schiff There will be no change with Barack Obama

The United States of Madoff



Be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem

I use <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags all the time.

I put no words in your mouth, I merely asked you a followup question which was based exactly on what you said.

Your earlier post did seem a lot like you are putting the whole of the debt blame on what the current president hasn't done yet, and you completely neglected to include the part about the debt that the last government accrued. How exactly again did I put words in your mouth dear?

Like I said, money is going to have to be spent in order to bring about all the magical "change" everyone keeps crying about because it isn't here yet.

I'd add a "duh!" in right about here but it seems sort of self-evident at this point.

And you can throw all the vids of big talking critics and pundits all you want and hide behind them, but if you're unwilling to come out and flat-out state what YOU think things are going to be like in 8 years then you best move along, you're wasting time (yours mostly). You come off like you know some key piece of secret knowledge the rest of us don't all the while using the opinions of others, passing those opinions off as fact, and never sharing your own, save to fall in line behind your "speakers" who you obviously worship.

Again like I said, I'm more of an I'll believe it when I see it kind of thinker, at least when it comes to "how things are gonna be" nearly a decade from now. I want predictions, educated if possible, not dressed up psuedo-facts from the hideously biased about how the mess we're all in is actually his fault even though he hasn't been president for one full work week yet.

People please, get a grip.

I don;t have any secrets I'm paying attention and putting 2=2 together.. Spending money you don't have increases your debt. We've already done enough of that. The many bail outs we've already given out obviously didn't work because they are already coming back for more. We're essentially funding the entire US off of credit cards. Right now is an important time where we can either put an end to it or we continue on the same destructive path. We can go one of two ways and we'll here's where my predictions come in..

We keep borrowing and spending to get out of debt within a debt based system which will do nothing but make the doom and gloom scenarios come true. Or we can put an end to the madness once and for all and create a sound monetary system. Right now it's nothing but a control mechanism. Giving the government more control of more or less everything in our lives doesn;t sound like a good plan to me..

You know, when you drop all the conspiracy bullshit and just speak from the heart you actually show a ray or two of sense.

However, all that is just basically stating the obvious. Anyone paying attention can or at the very least should be able to see that things are starting to collapse. If 10+ million mortgages being forclosed on in the US and hundreds of thousands of layoffs from large companies isn't a warning sign I don't know what is.

You and one or two others seem adamant that Obama is not only going to NOT do much to fix the problem but he will actually make it worse, while others in this thread seem convinced that his plan(s) will make things better. Still others are at least willing to give him a chance, adopting the "wait and see" attitude (which is kind of where I'm sitting).

Who is right? I guess we'll see in 4, maybe 8 years.


Too bad at the end of that time we won't be able to see how McCain would have done had he won, as a comparative.

Sweetie you just let me know how far back you want to go and we can have a discussion about history and politics. I love it.

My understanding was you asked about Barack. I think the initial bailout was a mistake and has put this country on a very slippery slope. The free market should adjust itself. Borrowing money to protect the asses of corrupt politicians and greedy ceos is not going to help the American people. Of course we are already having trouble accounting for the first 350 billion that was given out like candy. Then you have politicians already dipping their hands into the pot to use the money for unintended purposes. On that note the current president could put an end to this madness but instead his policies will continue this policy of borrow and spend.

I'm sure in 8 years we can have some sort of computer matrix that will simulate what McCain would have done and where we'd be. :upsidedow

Follow along here lambchop, the topic is 4-8 years in the f-u-t-u-r-e, ie: not the past.

What does the initial bailout have to do with Barack? He wasn't in power when it was decided.

So if I'm reading you correctly, and...I think that I am... I take it you're in the "there will be no real change/the country will be worse off at the end of 8 years of Obama" camp then?

Or... am I again putting words in your mouth? :winkwink:

Aw come on... He's not running the country alone. A rational political predicion is impossible.

On the other hand, if you want me to use my psychic powers, I say ... We're pretty screwed for the next 20 years thanks to the previous administrations.

You're only looking at it from one angle though. You see a plan for Obama to spend one trillion, and get upset. If you look back to Clinton's administration, he spent a fuck ton as well. However the national debt decreased and we had a federal surplus instead of a deficit.

I don't want to start a party debate here. However Republicans tend to spend money without revenue. Meaning the Federal budget is spent on things with no return value. This is what adds to the debt. They also tend to over spend, meaning they spend more than the Federal Budget provides. This adds to the deficit.

Democrats tent to spend money on things with return value. Meaning that money that is spent, create revenue for the people or country. Our debt goes down. By doing so, they can also create a larger federal budget that exceedss their spending. Meaning they're spending less money than their budget. This creates a surplus in the budget instead of a deficit.

Now I know after the last eight years, you see a politician spending an enormous amount of money and get upset. This spending is not the same as Bush's. These are short term boosts, and long term solutions to help the country. You also have to understand, while Obama is working on this "stimulus package" to spend money. At the same time he will be making a ton of cuts to other programs and their spending. Creating a balance for this trillion dollar stimulus package. This is not the same spend money that isn't there bullshit we have seen for the past eight years.

:thumbsup

I hope this helps a little to open some peoples eyes a little. All this information is available if you simply search for it, and do so from credible sources. :2 cents:

The deficit/national debt is all bullshit. EVERY penny taken in from taxes is spent on interest to the owners of the federal reserve before one cent is spent on public services. This is why our deficit spending keeps increasing. By adding more spending to it we increase the debt owed to them. We could eliminate the root of the problem (federal Reserve) and their debt based system with $400 billion but the powers that be, Obama included, won't tell you this because they are protecting the system. It's all a scam period.

Yeah this is money well spent and a boost to the economy

Pelosi: Contraception is Good Stimulus for the Economy
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-...e-economy.html

Great future planning there. When everyone is living off of welfare you can force contraceptives and who knows what else on them.

Where in this little $1 trillion bail out do they have plans for the next big real estate market to crash the commercial real estate? No where. That will be at least another few hundred billion down the road... It will never stop until we demand it to stop.

Clinton didn't pay off the national debt or control the deficits. He just changed the way the numbers were calculated.

The whole point to it all is we don;t have to have the Federal Reserve handling our nations money. It's a private company that charges us interest to create our money. We pay them to do nothing and they control us by doing this. In addition and contrary to popular belief ALL of these bail outs buying up assets aren't being held by the government. They are being held under private holding companies set up by the Federal Reserve. So we are giving them the power to buy up everything in the US and paying them to do it.