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-   -   Ummmm Not a single thread about Verotel.... (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=888192)

webmasterchecks 02-16-2009 04:12 PM
tough spot for all to be in

my thoughts are that verotel should engage in talks with their upstream, show them the position they are in (assuming it was the upstream and not a technical issue)

perhaps they can waive a small portion of their fees and some of that can be passed onto the client to help with the affiliate payment issues

Nicky 02-16-2009 04:13 PM
101 sales too much paid

Kinky John 02-16-2009 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetT (Post 15504121)
Based on what I am reading some of you believe that he should pay the money back to Verotel (and I am OK with that) but based on that theory I also assume it is OK for him to then deduct what he paid to his affiliates back from their payouts for those same transactions since they were overpaid, as well...right?

I mean whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?


--T
i agree SweetT.. in an ideal world

think it varies depending on individual attitudes to accounting

look at the stats/books monthly - we were fucked royally

but look at them annually - its just Verotel end of year balancing

when is a payout a payout ? when is the money safe to spend ?

let's be clear they guarantee it won't happen again.. so here's hoping


as an aside:

Verotel rep asked me if there was anything she could do
to "ease our pain" ( so to speak ) so i asked her to spread
this debit over future months.. received apologetic "no"

Kimmykim 02-16-2009 04:26 PM
This isn't any different than a check sale in the US -- however, if Verotel did not make sure they were being paid for the amount of sales they were recording, that is a Verotel screwup, and if it took them a full year to figure it out, well that's even more of a screwup.

MsCheyenne 02-16-2009 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by socalkev (Post 15504632)
When most people say "by the balls" they are speaking figuratively. You mean it!
Yes, well, I would like very much to have cc merchants by the balls in real time. I'd make them be nicer to all us. ;-)

Cheyenne

pocketkangaroo 02-16-2009 06:49 PM
In this situation, I think it's Verotels problem, not his. The situation sucks for everyone involved but BOSS1 had nothing to do with the error. He built his business around the money he was being told was processed. Verotel should eat it or go after the bank for it. I would not pay a dime back and would seek a new processor immediately.

BOSS1 02-16-2009 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 15505353)
In this situation, I think it's Verotels problem, not his. The situation sucks for everyone involved but BOSS1 had nothing to do with the error. He built his business around the money he was being told was processed. Verotel should eat it or go after the bank for it. I would not pay a dime back and would seek a new processor immediately.
The problem is they still have our rebills, like I said we dont do alot of transactions through them anyway but this sucks none the less.

pocketkangaroo 02-16-2009 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOSS1 (Post 15505358)
The problem is they still have our rebills, like I said we dont do alot of transactions through them anyway but this sucks none the less.
That really sucks then. I guess you're doing the right thing though by going through an attorney. If anything, this should be a nice warning for those who consider using Verotel in the future.

Best of luck.

spunky99 02-16-2009 07:00 PM
wow that sucks.. gotta wonder how many others are being effected by this

baddog 02-16-2009 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetT (Post 15504121)
Based on what I am reading some of you believe that he should pay the money back to Verotel (and I am OK with that) but based on that theory I also assume it is OK for him to then deduct what he paid to his affiliates back from their payouts for those same transactions since they were overpaid, as well...right?

I mean whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?


--T
Absolutely. Of course, it will be a little difficult to take installments as most probably won't hang out after the first month.

Situation sucks to be sure.

ExLust 02-16-2009 11:44 PM
Whew! That totally sucks.

BOSS1 02-17-2009 07:03 AM
So far we are negotiating and it looks good. I can not go into details but they are acting pretty good so far. :)

Bladewire 02-17-2009 10:45 AM
Bumpity bump bump :thumbsup

Sausage 02-17-2009 11:22 AM
Yep same thing happened to me here. Around $10k worth too ... and its been 2 months of 0 payments with no end in sight. Great way to do business.

Shoplifter 02-17-2009 01:13 PM
Unless you received money in error above your listed payout it's difficult to see how it's your fault after all this time.

Verotel should be going after their banks or insurance on this. Even mentioning it is just going to destroy confidence with their clients.

So far I haven't heard anything about this, but if I had to deal with this on top of the other issues like their backend and $1000 Mastercard fee I would absolutely peak. We are working like dogs these days and this is not a welcome event.

PAR 02-17-2009 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 15504447)
it seems a lot of you are not reading this correctly so I'll try to paint a picture.
Player 1: Boss1
Player 2: Verotel
Player 3: Bank (from what i can understand a German Bank that handles Direct Debit payments)

1) Player 1 sends transaction request to Player 2.
2) Player 2 queries transaction with Player 3.
3) Player 3 passes transaction and postbacks go through, member is added to Player 1's site access list and all relevant successful join info is posted to stats areas on Player 2's site.

Fastforward a year and Player 3 goes back to Player 2 and says, "We forgot to post chargebacks and credits to you for the past 12 months.

At this stage, both Player 1 and Player 2's books and accounting will show that the payments are correct for the number of joins. So how is this Boss1's problem? How exactly do any of you feel he should have known about this? He was not overpaid in the true sense of the word whereby he was meant to get $1000 but got $1500 instead. This is not what happened. What happened was he was meant to get $1000, and DID get $1000. A year later, the bank informs Verotel that credits and chargebacks were not accounted for because they never posted them so instead of being paid $1000, Boss1 should have been paid $500.

Not Boss1's fault, nor do I believe it is Verotel's fault, I'm just amused that many of you think he (Boss1) could have spotted something like this in his general accounting.
Exactly how I read it...
Very Fucked... This is why people have contracts and lawyers.. It's not right that Boss1 should have to take 100% of the hit on this one.. After all he paid for a service and part of this service should be to stop issues like this from happening...:2 cents:

bobby666 02-17-2009 02:39 PM
just got this mail from a verotal site owner:
You are receiving this email because you signed up as a reseller for xxxxxxxxxx.com.

Due to a very high rate of fraudulent transactions we have decided to discontinue the revenue sharing program. You will continue to receive commissions for recurring current subscriptions but new subscriptions cannot be made using the reseller linkage. You should remove all links and promotional material for the site immediately.

We may re-activate the program using a different credit card processor at a later time. If we do we will email you sign up information for the new program.

Bladewire 02-18-2009 01:03 PM
So what was the outcome here?

xxxdesign-net 02-18-2009 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby666 (Post 15509881)
just got this mail from a verotal site owner:
You are receiving this email because you signed up as a reseller for xxxxxxxxxx.com.

Due to a very high rate of fraudulent transactions we have decided to discontinue the revenue sharing program. You will continue to receive commissions for recurring current subscriptions but new subscriptions cannot be made using the reseller linkage. You should remove all links and promotional material for the site immediately.

We may re-activate the program using a different credit card processor at a later time. If we do we will email you sign up information for the new program.
Could have been a ccbill site owner.... I dont have a problem with fraudulent transactions or chargebacks..

xxxdesign-net 02-18-2009 01:32 PM
People have been predicting that verotel would crash and burn since 2002 (at least) and they are still there sending checks every weeks, never missing one... How many have crashed and burned since 2002? The issue here is that the company handling debit card transaction screwed them... Should we pay for it? I dont think so... But supposedly, Verotel is confident to recover that money owed... we'll see..

Debit transaction represent 1 or 2% of my transactions in total.. so i wont have a melt down over it and act like the sky is falling...

mike741 02-18-2009 01:39 PM
hey, please contact me on ICQ 278647925 - the same shit here - but i can tell you my expirence :)

clarkkent 02-19-2009 02:48 AM
I got the same email. I know other webmasters who use them and some got it some didn't. Maybe they are not contacting everybody at once.

In my case they are asking for 100% (!) of Direct Debit EU transactions in 2008 (not a huge amount since Verotel is my secondary processor and DDEU is a small % of the total). I did a report on DDEU transactions in 2008 and the amount matches exactly what Verotel is asking for. So I don't think it's just chargebacks unless every single transaction (178 of them) got charged back. They said they will keep my holdback, and take $100/week out of my rebills until it's paid off ! I told them what I thought about it and they said they will give me a call to negotiate.

Disgraceful way to treat your customers, even if they do offer come concessions once you complain. I guess they might have small print that lets them do it but why would anybody use a company like that. They are gone from my sites that's for sure.

Bladewire 02-19-2009 08:54 AM
Has anyone gotten an accounting of all the DDEU sales that Verotel wants to be credited for or at minimum the name of the German bank that has caused this problem?

clarkkent 02-19-2009 12:19 PM
nope, they said they will send it. they offered to reduce the amount by about 20%. still no explanation how come 100% of DDEU transactions apparently were chargebacks

Dennis69 02-19-2009 12:59 PM
I got the email for this last week... emailed back and just waiting to see how it works out for others! I donb't think it should be our loss for there fuck up!!!

Shoplifter 02-19-2009 02:15 PM
Is CC processing still continuing? Over the past couple of days our Verotel signups plummeted.

BOSS1 02-19-2009 02:35 PM
They are not accepting responsibility and are acting very pushy. Not really willing to negotiate fairly... They want me to pay 80% for their error.

tony286 02-19-2009 03:01 PM
its fucked up also based on the number they gave me that means like 90 percent got free use of my site because their direct debit product must have no filtering what so ever. To owe 1089 on 1300 of sales that's ridiculous.They offered me a deal and said they are working on getting the break down to me. it all smells very fishy to me.

dig420 02-19-2009 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 15503457)
That is why you have accountants on payroll. :error
Sounds to me like the numbers are correct, but Verotel is claiming they didn't get paid on the backend so they're trying to take back the money they correctly paid him on the frontend.

Why are you being such a defensive force for Verotel? You like it when webmasters get fucked or something, as long as it's not you?

dig420 02-19-2009 03:10 PM
I dropped Verotel several years ago after they fucked me over on some deal or other, don't even remember the details. They suck.

BOSS1 02-19-2009 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dig420 (Post 15523641)
Sounds to me like the numbers are correct, but Verotel is claiming they didn't get paid on the backend so they're trying to take back the money they correctly paid him on the frontend.

Why are you being such a defensive force for Verotel? You like it when webmasters get fucked or something, as long as it's not you?
I tried not to respond to him as much as possible because he does not bother reading or understanding he is just here for sig placement.

V_RocKs 02-19-2009 03:21 PM
Verotel fucked me for about $760 once... I don't push anything Verotel anymore.

V_RocKs 02-19-2009 03:24 PM
Ohh.. and Verotel is hackable... and they are fucking idiots... Back when I first learned of the company I tried working with them to turn it into something viable and it looked like they wanted to. Then they suddenly pulled out of the deal and just kept going on in the same lame ass direction they have been going in...

clarkkent 02-19-2009 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 15523628)
their direct debit product must have no filtering what so ever. To owe 1089 on 1300 of sales that's ridiculous.
my case is similar and doesn't make sense. how come 90% (in my case close to 100%) of DD transactions ended up being chargebacks in the first place? with other payment options it's less than 1%.

there is a piece of the story that's missing here

MaDalton 02-19-2009 03:26 PM
i cannot understand how a billing company can pay out money for a year that they claim they never got. chargebacks or cancellations would happen within days or at least weeks, not 12 months later. and i would like to see that accountant that continues to pay out money without noticing that nothing comes in

plus the fact that most of you granted access for those accounts AND paid out your affiliates.

as long it's not 50 bucks i would definitely get a lawyer and insist that they are responsible for the damage. too bad that they sit on the money and the rebills - but it should be a warning sign for everyone who does (or wants to do) business with them

Kinky John 02-19-2009 03:31 PM
never got the latest email about reseller prog .. that's very fucked up, just signed a bunch

Kinky John 02-19-2009 03:32 PM
2 separate issues in this thread now..

The Duck 02-19-2009 04:02 PM
I feel that it is Verotel who made a big mistake and it is their problem to deal with it. I cant believe they are asking you to resolve the situation.

clarkkent 02-19-2009 04:34 PM
another thing, what happens with verotel fees charged on these transactions (14% or whatever). it doesn't seem like those were deducted since the figure they are asking for is already almost 100% of DDU transactions (before the verotel fee). is it possible that they are actually intending to keep their own fees while reversing the transactions on which those fees were based?

Shoplifter 02-19-2009 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinky John (Post 15523742)
never got the latest email about reseller prog .. that's very fucked up, just signed a bunch
Can you explain more about this? What email about resellers?

$5 submissions 02-19-2009 05:06 PM
Any idea when these issues will be resolved?

Kinky John 02-19-2009 05:21 PM
it has to be said, its not ALL bad things with Verotel

shit happens, companies learn, improve their services as a result

we won't drop them over this

but i do question the clawing back of cash from a previous year

on a balance sheet there's no harm done.. but in practice it was different

can't help feeling the buck was simply passed back down from the germans..

Kinky John 02-19-2009 06:06 PM
bumping off to bed with the official Verotel line @ Cpanel
so this is pretty much straight from the horses mouth..

Quote:
Dear Customer,

Please note that you may see some additional credits to your account in your invoice. This is due to a complete reconciliation of our DDEU transactions which indicated that a number of transactions which were paid out to you in previous invoices were in fact not collected or reversed by our banks and processing partners. These transactions were subsequently never settled and not paid to Verotel. We have cancelled any users associated with these credits and appreciate your understanding in this reconciliation process.

Verotel Management
as i say, can't fault Verotel for much else yet apart from this

although recently i've wondered about their holdback system..

peace

clarkkent 02-19-2009 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinky John (Post 15524286)

on a balance sheet there's no harm done.. but in practice it was different

peace
not really. a transaction has two sides but only one side is being reversed. we provided content, bandwidth, support etc for those members for free. we also paid verotel's fees for these transaction which they are keeping, and some of us paid affiliates as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinky John (Post 15524286)

as i say, can't fault Verotel for much else yet apart from this
what more do you need? sure it would be worse if they ripped off their clients every day but once is enough for me. its not about making a mistake, it's about how they handled it.

Indecisive 02-19-2009 06:57 PM
Strange, I did a bunch of DDEU transaction with Verotel in 2008 but haven't received any email from them, nor does my control panel show the notice that Kinky John is getting. The total value of my transactions is only about $1,000, so maybe they decided to go after the bigger fish first.

Nothing surprises me with Verotel anymore. Back in September of '08, Verotel declined 42 of my transactions in a row over a 36 hour period. Eventually they responded with an explanation that their connection to their bank was down for 8 hours which caused some of the declines. The rest of the transactions (35 in all) were declined by the bank, with this message: "It is not possible to book the given amount from the credit account, e.g. limit is exceeded.". 35 separate customers in a row, all declined legitimately? What are the odds of that?

In November of 2008, a "power outage in their system" caused them to refund a number of customer purchases. Supposedly they couldn't add the joins to my password files. I was online at the time and was able to add the customers manually through the Verotel control panel just fine. Bad enough I lost the sales to a power failure (how a large internet billing company doesn't have their systems protected from power failures is beyond me), but to add insult to injury they refused to credit back the processing fees to me.

Like I said, nothing surprises me with Verotel anymore.

Doctor Dre 02-20-2009 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetT (Post 15504121)
Based on what I am reading some of you believe that he should pay the money back to Verotel (and I am OK with that) but based on that theory I also assume it is OK for him to then deduct what he paid to his affiliates back from their payouts for those same transactions since they were overpaid, as well...right?

I mean whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?


--T
The problem there is that if he takes the same payment methods as them for his big affiliates, they might just leave ship and he'll endup never seeing a dime of what he paid out.

Indecisive 02-20-2009 04:58 AM
Looks like Verotel went after their European customers first:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=868690

Kinky John 02-20-2009 06:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkkent (Post 15524407)
we provided content, bandwidth, support etc for those members for free.
very good point, it was late when i posted, obviously wasn't thinking straight,
the DD members concerned did indeed have full access to all our resources
during that period, so you are correct, that in itself was effectively a loss..

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkkent (Post 15524407)
we also paid verotel's fees for these transaction which they are keeping, and some of us paid affiliates as well.
as i said, during this period the vast majority of our sales were in-house generated,
already agreed i would be very pissed off had we paid a chunk out to affiliates..

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkkent (Post 15524407)
what more do you need? sure it would be worse if they ripped off their clients every day but once is enough for me. its not about making a mistake, it's about how they handled it.
i'm not denying it stinks a bit.. but i don't wanna make too many waves
until i can get a replacement / secondary processor set-up, dig ? ;-)

Shoplifter 02-20-2009 12:53 PM
Kinky John can you hit me on ICQ if you have time? 88-05-05

Many thanks.

BOSS1 02-21-2009 09:00 AM
still pissed and will be if they make me pay for their fuckups


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