Dear Customer..

We screwed up, we weren't watching, we didn't double-check our numbers, we didn't do this, we didn't do that...

Now we need YOU to pay for it... I know I'd be using this week to change processors.

That email should have gone something like this..

Dear Customer,

We screwed up, we weren't watching and as a result, we overpaid you over the course of the year. You pay us to provide you with a service and to provide you with accurate information and we obviously didn't do that for you. As a result, we're going to eat 50% of the cost because it was our error that created this issue and and make corrections over the course of the next year (which, coincidentally is the same time span of our mistake) for the remaining 50%....

While it sucks that there was an accounting error, I don't see how he was fucked. Wasn't he overpaid? Now they want their money back, but they are willing to take it in increments.

At least, that is how I interpreted it.

Based on what I am reading some of you believe that he should pay the money back to Verotel (and I am OK with that) but based on that theory I also assume it is OK for him to then deduct what he paid to his affiliates back from their payouts for those same transactions since they were overpaid, as well...right?

I mean whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?


--T

Same here. I didn't have a paysite back then but I was pushing Karups hard. I believe I had well over 1000 members. That sucked.

I agree 100%. Thing is if any of these guys were his affiliate they'd rip him a new one here if he did that.

it is almost "strange" that you would be the only one. if it was a system flaw, shouldn't other companies be in the same boat now?

Also if you get paid out too much do you not notice that? I mean I know exactly what's coming to me and if it is more, then I will contact and confirm with the sender before I spend any of it.

If I am reading this correctly, Verotel reported the transactions and paid the cash for them. Even if he had a CPA doing the books, it would not have mattered - because a year later Verotel says they did not get paid on some of these transactions - and now he, not the bank doing the EU Direct Debit processing for Verotel, is responsible? If this is because of chargebacks, and those showed up in the control panel, fine - but how is anyone supposed to know that Verotel's bank is not fully paying Verotel, other than Verotel?

did you receive money that was more than your listed payout?

That is quite odd. Reminds me of how shady sponsors used to tell affiliates that a "problem with your account" caused the terrible ratios. As if the script that runs the whole program is going to go haywire in a way that targets one affiliate.


BUUUUUUUUUT.... If this is legit, he has to give the money back.

Again.... the transactions were good according to them for a year. We provided access to our members area and the custumers got what they "paid" for. Verotels job was to process transactions and let us know if they are good so we can give the custumers access.

They did not get proper information for their partners....While the affiliates got paid and so did the employees, hosting, content providers and so on.


Luckily we got Epoch and Segpay and they are the primary processors so the hit is not a knock out.

I will handle this "shit" inhouse and it will not affect the affiliates in anyway.

Because unlike other companies...namely Verotel...we actually take responsibility for working with incompetent companies.

What if something happened where you overpaid one of your affiliates for several months? Would you let them keep your money?

Thing is, it appears Verotel was the one underpaid - and they want him to make up for it based on transactions they told him were good.

Something dont seem right with this.

If they didn't notice it for a year they should eat it. Or try and get it from the 3rd party that underfunded them.

No...........

it seems a lot of you are not reading this correctly so I'll try to paint a picture.
Player 1: Boss1
Player 2: Verotel
Player 3: Bank (from what i can understand a German Bank that handles Direct Debit payments)

1) Player 1 sends transaction request to Player 2.
2) Player 2 queries transaction with Player 3.
3) Player 3 passes transaction and postbacks go through, member is added to Player 1's site access list and all relevant successful join info is posted to stats areas on Player 2's site.

Fastforward a year and Player 3 goes back to Player 2 and says, "We forgot to post chargebacks and credits to you for the past 12 months.

At this stage, both Player 1 and Player 2's books and accounting will show that the payments are correct for the number of joins. So how is this Boss1's problem? How exactly do any of you feel he should have known about this? He was not overpaid in the true sense of the word whereby he was meant to get $1000 but got $1500 instead. This is not what happened. What happened was he was meant to get $1000, and DID get $1000. A year later, the bank informs Verotel that credits and chargebacks were not accounted for because they never posted them so instead of being paid $1000, Boss1 should have been paid $500.

Not Boss1's fault, nor do I believe it is Verotel's fault, I'm just amused that many of you think he (Boss1) could have spotted something like this in his general accounting.

Fucked up situation indeed

Ibill bent me over too. I'd be very leary of Verotel. If we sent a letter like that to our affiliates, regardless of the circumstances, they'd be gone. CC merchants have us by the balls and they know it.

Cheyenne

When most people say "by the balls" they are speaking figuratively. You mean it!

tough spot for all to be in

my thoughts are that verotel should engage in talks with their upstream, show them the position they are in (assuming it was the upstream and not a technical issue)

perhaps they can waive a small portion of their fees and some of that can be passed onto the client to help with the affiliate payment issues

101 sales too much paid

i agree SweetT.. in an ideal world

think it varies depending on individual attitudes to accounting

look at the stats/books monthly - we were fucked royally

but look at them annually - its just Verotel end of year balancing

when is a payout a payout ? when is the money safe to spend ?

let's be clear they guarantee it won't happen again.. so here's hoping


as an aside:

Verotel rep asked me if there was anything she could do
to "ease our pain" ( so to speak ) so i asked her to spread
this debit over future months.. received apologetic "no"

This isn't any different than a check sale in the US -- however, if Verotel did not make sure they were being paid for the amount of sales they were recording, that is a Verotel screwup, and if it took them a full year to figure it out, well that's even more of a screwup.

Yes, well, I would like very much to have cc merchants by the balls in real time. I'd make them be nicer to all us. ;-)

Cheyenne

In this situation, I think it's Verotels problem, not his. The situation sucks for everyone involved but BOSS1 had nothing to do with the error. He built his business around the money he was being told was processed. Verotel should eat it or go after the bank for it. I would not pay a dime back and would seek a new processor immediately.

The problem is they still have our rebills, like I said we dont do alot of transactions through them anyway but this sucks none the less.

That really sucks then. I guess you're doing the right thing though by going through an attorney. If anything, this should be a nice warning for those who consider using Verotel in the future.

Best of luck.

wow that sucks.. gotta wonder how many others are being effected by this

Absolutely. Of course, it will be a little difficult to take installments as most probably won't hang out after the first month.

Situation sucks to be sure.

Whew! That totally sucks.

So far we are negotiating and it looks good. I can not go into details but they are acting pretty good so far. :)

Bumpity bump bump :thumbsup

Yep same thing happened to me here. Around $10k worth too ... and its been 2 months of 0 payments with no end in sight. Great way to do business.

Unless you received money in error above your listed payout it's difficult to see how it's your fault after all this time.

Verotel should be going after their banks or insurance on this. Even mentioning it is just going to destroy confidence with their clients.

So far I haven't heard anything about this, but if I had to deal with this on top of the other issues like their backend and $1000 Mastercard fee I would absolutely peak. We are working like dogs these days and this is not a welcome event.

Exactly how I read it...
Very Fucked... This is why people have contracts and lawyers.. It's not right that Boss1 should have to take 100% of the hit on this one.. After all he paid for a service and part of this service should be to stop issues like this from happening...:2 cents:

just got this mail from a verotal site owner:
You are receiving this email because you signed up as a reseller for xxxxxxxxxx.com.

Due to a very high rate of fraudulent transactions we have decided to discontinue the revenue sharing program. You will continue to receive commissions for recurring current subscriptions but new subscriptions cannot be made using the reseller linkage. You should remove all links and promotional material for the site immediately.

We may re-activate the program using a different credit card processor at a later time. If we do we will email you sign up information for the new program.

So what was the outcome here?

Could have been a ccbill site owner.... I dont have a problem with fraudulent transactions or chargebacks..

People have been predicting that verotel would crash and burn since 2002 (at least) and they are still there sending checks every weeks, never missing one... How many have crashed and burned since 2002? The issue here is that the company handling debit card transaction screwed them... Should we pay for it? I dont think so... But supposedly, Verotel is confident to recover that money owed... we'll see..

Debit transaction represent 1 or 2% of my transactions in total.. so i wont have a melt down over it and act like the sky is falling...