GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum (https://gfy.com/index.php)
-   Fucking Around & Business Discussion (https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26)
-   -   Europe's Crisis: Much Bigger Than Subprime, Worse Than U.S. (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=890635)

Altwebdesign 02-28-2009 08:23 AM

times ahead dont look too good!

CarlosTheGaucho 02-28-2009 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 15562246)
i'm certainly not up for arguing with serge

Please - no contraversy!

:winkwink:

Michael O 02-28-2009 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho (Post 15562045)
Who was that "some analyst?" I would like to meet him, I will make sure he will feel like a complete idiot.

Hayman Advisors
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...r7A&refer=home

CarlosTheGaucho 02-28-2009 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evie (Post 15562227)
How much that really worth?

About :2 cents: Evie,

Say hello to that old burglar, let him get well.

I'm sure he'll be able to handle the disease even in that terrible ancient age of him as far as I know his boards enthusiasm!

CarlosTheGaucho 02-28-2009 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael O (Post 15562267)

As a matter of fact, I know someone that's quite high in the Bloomberg food chain as I did the feature story about our business in the sig.

I am going to ask him to let them get in touch with me for a consultation !

LOL

MaDalton 02-28-2009 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael O (Post 15560116)
I think I read it was ?2500 billion most of it short term Europe will truly be fucked just a bad. Some analyst also predict Germany pulling out of the Euro because basically the Euro is fucked.
Interesting times ahead.

i would love to know who that analyst is supposed to be cause it's the first time i ever hear about it. so if that was Germanies plan it has not made german news yet.

Ethersync 02-28-2009 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evie (Post 15562227)
How much that really worth?

Damn near nothing, well, except what you can sell it for on eBay I suppose. Their money had expiration dates because of how out of control inflation was :)

I think they are trying to move to some new standard now that is rate pegged to another stable currency.

CarlosTheGaucho 02-28-2009 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 15562279)
i would love to know who that analyst is supposed to be cause it's the first time i ever hear about it. so if that was Germanies plan it has not made german news yet.

:2 cents:


:1orglaugh

Ethersync 02-28-2009 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 15562279)
i would love to know who that analyst is supposed to be cause it's the first time i ever hear about it. so if that was Germanies plan it has not made german news yet.

I have been reading about this for most of 2008 and all of 2009. Many economists and analysts have said the Euro will not survive. Even Milton Friedman said that the Euro will fail when they have their next serious recession...

CarlosTheGaucho 02-28-2009 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15562289)
Even Milton Friedman said that the Euro will fail when they have their next serious recession...

Let that old scrap move his senile ass to the world behind the university doors someday!

:winkwink:

:1orglaugh

Ok I need to drive somewhere, but hell do I enjoy this.

Ethersync 02-28-2009 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho (Post 15562296)
Let that old scrap move his senile ass to the world behind the university doors someday!

:winkwink:

:1orglaugh

Ok I need to drive somewhere, but hell do I enjoy this.

Well, he's been dead a couple years now :)

CarlosTheGaucho 02-28-2009 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15562308)
Well, he's been dead a couple years now :)

Oh shit, so he's haunting people from the coffin now!

:winkwink:


:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Now I really go, don't get me into any more discussion.

tiger 02-28-2009 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 15561927)
Europe needs to start placing little, teeny tiny classified ads in 1000s of newspapers across the region, advertising products.

http://www.3miles.com/lapre_sites/bl.../lapre_don.jpg

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

MaDalton 02-28-2009 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15562289)
I have been reading about this for most of 2008 and all of 2009. Many economists and analysts have said the Euro will not survive. Even Milton Friedman said that the Euro will fail when they have their next serious recession...

not just because i studied business management and economics... the Euro will not go away. the only thing that might make it go away ever is a world currency. if there's a chance we ever will have one. probably not in our lifetime though

cykoe6 02-28-2009 09:17 AM

I follow this issue very closely and there is no doubt that Western Europe's massive exposure to bad debts in Eastern Europe is leading to a potential catastrophe which could result in the end of the Euro. The situation in the Baltics is extremely desperate and getting worse every day. Latvia's sovereign debt was just downgraded to "junk" status last week. The IMF does not have enough money to bail out every country in Eastern Europe. Massive defaults are very likely all across the board.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...-meltdown.html

Quote:

Failure to save East Europe will lead to worldwide meltdown
The unfolding debt drama in Russia, Ukraine, and the EU states of Eastern Europe has reached acute danger point.

If mishandled by the world policy establishment, this debacle is big enough to shatter the fragile banking systems of Western Europe and set off round two of our financial Götterdämmerung.

Austria's finance minister Josef Pröll made frantic efforts last week to put together a ?150bn rescue for the ex-Soviet bloc. Well he might. His banks have lent ?230bn to the region, equal to 70pc of Austria's GDP.

"A failure rate of 10pc would lead to the collapse of the Austrian financial sector," reported Der Standard in Vienna. Unfortunately, that is about to happen.

The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) says bad debts will top 10pc and may reach 20pc. The Vienna press said Bank Austria and its Italian owner Unicredit face a "monetary Stalingrad" in the East.


Mr Pröll tried to drum up support for his rescue package from EU finance ministers in Brussels last week. The idea was scotched by Germany's Peer Steinbrück. Not our problem, he said. We'll see about that.

Stephen Jen, currency chief at Morgan Stanley, said Eastern Europe has borrowed $1.7 trillion abroad, much on short-term maturities. It must repay ? or roll over ? $400bn this year, equal to a third of the region's GDP. Good luck. The credit window has slammed shut.

Not even Russia can easily cover the $500bn dollar debts of its oligarchs while oil remains near $33 a barrel. The budget is based on Urals crude at $95. Russia has bled 36pc of its foreign reserves since August defending the rouble.

"This is the largest run on a currency in history," said Mr Jen.

In Poland, 60pc of mortgages are in Swiss francs. The zloty has just halved against the franc. Hungary, the Balkans, the Baltics, and Ukraine are all suffering variants of this story. As an act of collective folly ? by lenders and borrowers ? it matches America's sub-prime debacle. There is a crucial difference, however. European banks are on the hook for both. US banks are not.

Almost all East bloc debts are owed to West Europe, especially Austrian, Swedish, Greek, Italian, and Belgian banks. En plus, Europeans account for an astonishing 74pc of the entire $4.9 trillion portfolio of loans to emerging markets.


They are five times more exposed to this latest bust than American or Japanese banks, and they are 50pc more leveraged (IMF data).

Spain is up to its neck in Latin America, which has belatedly joined the slump (Mexico's car output fell 51pc in January, and Brazil lost 650,000 jobs in one month). Britain and Switzerland are up to their necks in Asia.

Whether it takes months, or just weeks, the world is going to discover that Europe's financial system is sunk, and that there is no EU Federal Reserve yet ready to act as a lender of last resort or to flood the markets with emergency stimulus.

Under a "Taylor Rule" analysis, the European Central Bank already needs to cut rates to zero and then purchase bonds and Pfandbriefe on a huge scale. It is constrained by geopolitics ? a German-Dutch veto ? and the Maastricht Treaty.

But I digress. It is East Europe that is blowing up right now. Erik Berglof, EBRD's chief economist, told me the region may need ?400bn in help to cover loans and prop up the credit system.

Europe's governments are making matters worse. Some are pressuring their banks to pull back, undercutting subsidiaries in East Europe. Athens has ordered Greek banks to pull out of the Balkans.

The sums needed are beyond the limits of the IMF, which has already bailed out Hungary, Ukraine, Latvia, Belarus, Iceland, and Pakistan ? and Turkey next ? and is fast exhausting its own $200bn (?155bn) reserve. We are nearing the point where the IMF may have to print money for the world, using arcane powers to issue Special Drawing Rights.

Its $16bn rescue of Ukraine has unravelled. The country ? facing a 12pc contraction in GDP after the collapse of steel prices ? is hurtling towards default, leaving Unicredit, Raffeisen and ING in the lurch. Pakistan wants another $7.6bn. Latvia's central bank governor has declared his economy "clinically dead" after it shrank 10.5pc in the fourth quarter. Protesters have smashed the treasury and stormed parliament.

"This is much worse than the East Asia crisis in the 1990s," said Lars Christensen, at Danske Bank.

"There are accidents waiting to happen across the region, but the EU institutions don't have any framework for dealing with this. The day they decide not to save one of these one countries will be the trigger for a massive crisis with contagion spreading into the EU."

Europe is already in deeper trouble than the ECB or EU leaders ever expected. Germany contracted at an annual rate of 8.4pc in the fourth quarter.

If Deutsche Bank is correct, the economy will have shrunk by nearly 9pc before the end of this year. This is the sort of level that stokes popular revolt.

The implications are obvious. Berlin is not going to rescue Ireland, Spain, Greece and Portugal as the collapse of their credit bubbles leads to rising defaults, or rescue Italy by accepting plans for EU "union bonds" should the debt markets take fright at the rocketing trajectory of Italy's public debt (hitting 112pc of GDP next year, just revised up from 101pc ? big change), or rescue Austria from its Habsburg adventurism.

So we watch and wait as the lethal brush fires move closer.

If one spark jumps across the eurozone line, we will have global systemic crisis within days. Are the firemen ready?

Slappin Fish 02-28-2009 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6 (Post 15562379)
I follow this issue very closely and there is no doubt that Western Europe's massive exposure to bad debts in Eastern Europe is leading to a potential catastrophe which could result in the end of the Euro. The situation in the Baltics is extremely desperate and getting worse every day. Latvia's sovereign debt was just downgraded to "junk" status last week. The IMF does not have enough money to bail out every country in Eastern Europe. Massive defaults are very likely all across the board.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...-meltdown.html

Quoting the telegraph for Monetary issues is like trying to get an unbiased opinion from foxnews. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Both articles in this thread have been written by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, a man who spend his whole career campaigning against the euro.

nolongerexists 02-28-2009 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6 (Post 15562379)
I follow this issue very closely and there is no doubt that Western Europe's massive exposure to bad debts in Eastern Europe is leading to a potential catastrophe which could result in the end of the Euro. The situation in the Baltics is extremely desperate and getting worse every day. Latvia's sovereign debt was just downgraded to "junk" status last week. The IMF does not have enough money to bail out every country in Eastern Europe. Massive defaults are very likely all across the board.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...-meltdown.html

Yet the polish government thinks its best time to start talking serious about introducing Euro.

You US folks wanna know what is going on on EU famous debates? Check this movie out

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5DlVFKBwbuU

Did you know that after Ireland's NO to Lisbon Strategy EU wanted to punish them, or even kick them out of the UNION? As this clever UK guy said - European Union can't simply take NO as an answer!

cykoe6 02-28-2009 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish (Post 15562424)
Quoting the telegraph for Monetary issues is like trying to get an unbiased opinion from foxnews. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Both articles in this thread have been written by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, a man who spend his whole career campaigning against the euro.

The article is written from a Euro skeptic outlook.... that is true. But it does not change the fact that there is a lot of exposure to Eastern European toxic debt in European banks. It is obviously difficult to predict the consequences or the outcome of all this.

Ethersync 02-28-2009 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 15562374)
not just because i studied business management and economics... the Euro will not go away. the only thing that might make it go away ever is a world currency. if there's a chance we ever will have one. probably not in our lifetime though

It will all come down to Germany. Also, in order to survive EU will need to become much more centralized and the power of the ECB will need to be greatly expanded.

Ethersync 02-28-2009 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindzior (Post 15562440)
Yet the polish government thinks its best time to start talking serious about introducing Euro.

You US folks wanna know what is going on on EU famous debates? Check this movie out

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5DlVFKBwbuU

Did you know that after Ireland's NO to Lisbon Strategy EU wanted to punish them, or even kick them out of the UNION? As this clever UK guy said - European Union can't simply take NO as an answer!

Now that is an interesting video. Here, I'll embed it for you :)


Ethersync 02-28-2009 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish (Post 15562424)
Quoting the telegraph for Monetary issues is like trying to get an unbiased opinion from foxnews. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Both articles in this thread have been written by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, a man who spend his whole career campaigning against the euro.

What do you disagree with in that article?

cykoe6 02-28-2009 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15562587)
What do you disagree with in that article?

There is nothing to disagree with. He is just attacking the source because the facts are not in dispute.

Slappin Fish 02-28-2009 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6 (Post 15562640)
There is nothing to disagree with. He is just attacking the source because the facts are not in dispute.

No there is plenty to disagree with, but until you called me out I really didn't feel like going into a sterile debate.

There is trouble no doubt, especially with Austria, who is the most exposed but on a European level it represents only 9% of aggregate GDP, not a number that can come close to bringing down the euro.

Some banks will suffer of course but unlike in the UK many are still making a healthy: profit Banco Santander ($11 billion in 08) BNP ($4.5 billion) SocGen ($3 billion)....

Wasn't it the Telegraph who was predicting they would be crushed in 08...hmmm

Ethersync 02-28-2009 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish (Post 15562745)
No there is plenty to disagree with, but until you called me out I really didn't feel like going into a sterile debate.

There is trouble no doubt, especially with Austria, who is the most exposed but on a European level it represents only 9% of aggregate GDP, not a number that can come close to bringing down the euro.

Some banks will suffer of course but unlike in the UK many are still making a healthy: profit Banco Santander ($11 billion in 08) BNP ($4.5 billion) SocGen ($3 billion)....

Wasn't it the Telegraph who was predicting they would be crushed in 08...hmmm

Yes, Austria is bad, but they are not nearly the only ones. European banks are leveraged much more than even US banks and the Eastern Europe problem is on a scale much larger than US Sub Prime. You seem to think that the problem is rather small and containable. You are going to be in for quite a surprise... :2 cents:

Ethersync 02-28-2009 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 15562975)
people are afraid period. look at this link and it should give you a clear understanding where we are at.

http://www.businessinsider.com/unsol...e-world-2009-2

That's amazing. Did you hear 120,000 protesters hit the streets in Ireland the other day protesting the economy? Yeah, things are fine... Nothing to see here folks :)

Slappin Fish 02-28-2009 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15563029)
That's amazing. Did you hear 120,000 protesters hit the streets in Ireland the other day protesting the economy? Yeah, things are fine... Nothing to see here folks :)

Who said everything is fine? Problems are huge. This is why we don't need euroskeptic journalist writing sensationalist drivel just to forward their own agenda.

"The Russian budget is based on Urals crude at $95..."

$95 wow that is a big number... Why doesn't he say break even was at $70. Even better, at the time of writing he knows the revised budget is coming out in a couple of days - based on a barrel at $41 -

"In Poland, 60pc of mortgages are in Swiss francs. The zloty has just halved against the franc...."

60 pct down... oh no wait a minute turn out that was a drop from a short lived peak, it's only down 20% from last years normal levels.

Not saying everything is rosy but I like to be separate economics from politics, many people bashing the Euro aren't :2 cents:

Slappin Fish 02-28-2009 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15563029)
That's amazing. Did you hear 120,000 protesters hit the streets in Ireland the other day protesting the economy? Yeah, things are fine... Nothing to see here folks :)

They have short memories. In the 80's they were one of the poorest countries in Europe, in a few years they have grown so quickly t they now have a GDP per capita higher than France or Germany.

A correction was to be expected.

MaDalton 02-28-2009 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish (Post 15563107)
They have short memories. In the 80's they were one of the poorest countries in Europe, in a few years they have grown so quickly t they now have a GDP per capita higher than France or Germany.

A correction was to be expected.

correct - for years people all over europe were pissed about all the money and jobs that went to Ireland. i think all major companies like UPS, Microsoft etc. have outsourced their callcenters to Ireland. and as a thanks for that Ireland gave the EU a kick in the ass

buzzy 02-28-2009 01:37 PM

The Euro has been a failure since it started, nobody wanted it, it was imposed upon the people by force and now the people have to pay for the mess.

The EU is a joke and i foresee ALOT more riots like the ones in Greece in the near future.

Ethersync 02-28-2009 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish (Post 15563086)
Not saying everything is rosy but I like to be separate economics from politics, many people bashing the Euro aren't :2 cents:

I don't care what happens the Euro personally.

Ethersync 02-28-2009 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 15563149)
correct - for years people all over europe were pissed about all the money and jobs that went to Ireland. i think all major companies like UPS, Microsoft etc. have outsourced their callcenters to Ireland. and as a thanks for that Ireland gave the EU a kick in the ass

How did Ireland give the EU a kick in the ass? I certainly hope you are not referring to The Treaty of Lisbon...

Slappin Fish 02-28-2009 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15563166)
I don't care what happens the Euro personally.

No but your references are from people who do.

Ethersync 02-28-2009 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish (Post 15563107)
They have short memories. In the 80's they were one of the poorest countries in Europe, in a few years they have grown so quickly t they now have a GDP per capita higher than France or Germany.

A correction was to be expected.

I am aware of their history and calling this a "correction" shows you have no idea what is going on. Where are you from?

Slappin Fish 02-28-2009 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzy (Post 15563154)
The Euro has been a failure since it started, nobody wanted it, it was imposed upon the people by force and now the people have to pay for the mess.

The EU is a joke and i foresee ALOT more riots like the ones in Greece in the near future.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Your a dumbass.

They made a survey in the UK a few years ago:

If the Euro was called the Crown would you be in favor of the UK joining?

The majority answered yes.

This is how deep the average person's understanding of currency is. I am guessing you are one of these average people.

BTW you might want to look at a recent chart of the pound :helpme

buzzy 02-28-2009 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish (Post 15563183)
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Your a dumbass.

They made a survey in the UK a few years ago:

If the Euro was called the Crown would you be in favor of the UK joining?

The majority answered yes.

This is how deep the average person's understanding of currency is. I am guessing you are one of these average people.

BTW you might want to look at a recent chart of the pound :helpme

What the fuck? I'm not talking about the UK. I know the UK is in a mess but what the fuck has that got to do with the euro? :error Weirdo.

Ethersync 02-28-2009 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish (Post 15563172)
No but your references are from people who do.

So, anyone that says anything negative about the Euro is being political and everyone who is pro Euro, like yourself, is just looking at the facts logically. Enjoy your delusions :2 cents:

MaDalton 02-28-2009 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15563171)
How did Ireland give the EU a kick in the ass? I certainly hope you are not referring to The Treaty of Lisbon...

of course i do

i like the idea of the EU and i like the Euro.

and i want both to succeed - although i of course also don't think that all ideas are brilliant they are breeding out in their headquarters.

but not to forget that since 64 years we had no wars between the participating countries. Never happend before for such long time.

Slappin Fish 02-28-2009 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15563190)
So, anyone that says anything negative about the Euro is being political and everyone who is pro Euro, like yourself, is just looking at the facts logically. Enjoy your delusions :2 cents:

You are not reading what I am writing are you?

I am only saying articles predicting the collapse of the Euro have to be taken with a pinch of salt when they come from an openly anti-EU publications.

Ethersync 02-28-2009 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish (Post 15563213)
You are not reading what I am writing are you?

I am only saying articles predicting the collapse of the Euro have to be taken with a pinch of salt when they come from an openly anti-EU publications.

They are not only coming from the Telegraph.

Ethersync 02-28-2009 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 15563207)
of course i do

i like the idea of the EU and i like the Euro.

and i want both to succeed - although i of course also don't think that all ideas are brilliant they are breeding out in their headquarters.

but not to forget that since 64 years we had no wars between the participating countries. Never happend before for such long time.

So, you don't believe people should have the right to vote?


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:43 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©2000-, AI Media Network Inc