I didn't post an Alex Jones video. There again shows you're arguing with me without the facts.

After 50 ye4ars of living under communism it will not be as bad as those in the West. We will suffer but not as bad as people who have only know good times.

We are in this mess because we all lived a dream. We dreamed that if a bank was lending out billions it did not have, selling the debts to other banks and sharing the wealth, while we lent this money to buy houses that were just getting more and more expensive, filling wardrobes with clothes, buying furniture before the old one needed replacing, filling our homes with gadgets and buying the latest car that was designed to last a few years so it would be cheap and consumable. Mostly on credit.

My first wife who has not worked since we split in 1982 has a debt of $10,000. Now what system allows a person who does not work run up a debt of $10,000 and think it's fine?

A system where a bankers bonus is linked to the size of his debt portfolio.

And this is not just individuals and bankers. It's whole countries. Any countries national debt is down to the politicians running the country. They built this debt so we could all feel wealthy and they would get re elected. And we re elected them and told everyone how rich we were because we had a house worth 25% more than we paid for it last year. The truth is it was worth 25% less than we paid for it and if the train hit the buffers we would learn very fast.

As for credit card debt in the Eastern Europe countries. When Czech became independent of the Eastern Block they started giving out credit cards to anyone who asked. Many of these people run up huge debts, relative to their wages, and the banks stopped giving out credit cards. Time were good and they weathered the storm. If banks in countries like Estonia made the same mistake they have only themselves to blame.

:thumbsup:thumbsup

The big question is how did we get in this mass and how do we get out?

We got into it by over spending at all levels. Be it GWB taking on a war the US simply could not afford or you and I buying on credit something we could not pay for in cash. And coupled with that is the money was not being kept in the country.

How much of the budget for the invasion of Iraq has ended up in Iraq and will never come back?

How many of the goods you bought were made overseas? Just look at the list of billionaires how many of them are wealthy by taking jobs from the West and then selling the goods back to us?

China a few years ago could hardly feed itself, not it's one of the richest countries in the world, lending the world money for bonds and shares, might end up owning the world because of this. All because we needed to have the new Nike $150 football shirt made by a Chinese worker on a fraction of our wages. Nike got rich, the Chinese factory owner got rich and a peasant got a job indoors rather than planting rice. And we got our over priced, badly made, obsolete in a year football shirt.

Apart from the inflated values of the debts on property and shares the world is no poorer than it should be. It's just that the wealth has been shifted to other countries.

How do we get out of it?

Tough one as we are now so far in debt to countries like China that they have to part of the solution. But the basic method has to be we spend what we earn. Plus repay the massive debts we are all guilty of running up or allowing our politicians to run up.

Thanks for the links, I'll review that tonight or tomorrow morning.

Hot off the press...

Economic crisis threatens the idea of one Europe

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/01/europe/union.php

I can not, but I can afford to PAY you for sucking my cum out of your ass...how much?

I guess now we will hear that the IHT is also a Euro skeptic publication and should not be trusted. :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

One of the major problems of the EU is certain countries always regarded it as a source of money and not something they need to conform to it's ideals, financial policies or laws. When you have countries like Bulgaria, Romania, Portugal and others just taking money and contributing little you're heading for trouble in hard times. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Turkey were told there is no money in the kitty when you join the EEC for building your country.

The EEC knew this before it took on a lot of Eastern Europe, they saw the results when this happened and still went ahead with allowing Bulgaria and Romania to join and still considering Turkey.

The joint currency is not the real problem, it's the countries using it.

How do you know those countries don't contribute? Last time I checked, they were giving more to eu than they received. You have no idea what the crisis is all about.
The real problem isn't those countries, but the banks from some western countries who financed really bad investments in this countries, like the real estate bubble. Austrian banks are the most exposed, but the french banks are doing relatively well, because these banks invested more in real economy and not in real estate. These countries will be a lot more attractive to investors now that the real estate costs are getting much lower. But the problem with the western banks is where the crisis is. They must pay for those stupid investments. The eastern countries won't loose anything, because the banks can't take the houses and the lands and move them where the prices are better.

Yes, that's true, but the EU was offering support to these Eastern European countries to entice them to want to join. A lot of EU money has already gone into building infrastructure in these countries. So, absolutely "New Europe" was looking for a free lunch, but the EU was also offering it...

The reason why the Euro is likely to have serious problems is the because of the economic disparities between the different countries in the Eurozone and the Eastern European countries in the ERM II program.

For the Euro to survive the ECB and EU will need more power and the countries that make up the EU (or at least the Eurozone and ERM II countries) will need to give up more of their national sovereignty. Simply the EU will need to function more like a country than a glorified trade union. :2 cents:

Crisis is affecting all earth, fact.

Yes, I think what is going on with the Swedish banks in Latvia is disgusting. Swedbank and SEB gave out loans to virtually anyone that asked for years. The Baltics alone was generating over 30% of Swedbank's profit and accounted for less than 15% of their overall expenses. Now the shit has hit the fan and Swedbank would have already gone bust had the Swedish central bank not stepped in late last year and gave them money. Now what Latvia needs to do to fix their economy is devalue their currency, but the defaults that will happen, since most loans for property are in Euros, if they do that will push Swedbank and SEB over the edge and the EU and Sweden does not want to pay for this. So they orchestrate a bailout with the IMF et al to give Latvia the money needed to artificially prop up the exchange rate their currency is fixed to with the Euro. Basically they are taking their FX reserves and buying Lats on the market. Akin to going into a shop selling your product and buying it yourself to prop up your sales. This is unsustainable and the Latvian people are the ones suffering for it. They are the ones that will have to pay all this bailout money back through taxes and it is being used for nothing more than propping up Swedish banks. It's sick. And don't even get me started about the local bankruptcy laws in the region that were largely written by people connected with these foreign banks...

:winkwink:

Sure, get well!

On the other hand, talking about the balt meaning the fall of Eastern Europe is the same as claiming that because 50 pct. of the inhabitants of Arkansas have intercourse with sheeps and goats represents a massive sociological fall of America.

Like of course, to lend virtual assets to other virtual asset managers to spend it on shit loans in shit countries to "capitalize" on it - that was not a good idea at all, someone probably got a decent commission for those loans.

Disclaimer: I still haven't watched the bloomberg prophecies or read the articles, I admit, later.

It doesn't affect me at all, and I'm having more fun than ever, that is an unbreakable evidence that you fact is entirely false.

Ok tell me your definition of "press" - isn't press that someone writes something and it's published to be read by masses?

Eurotrash morning bump!

:thumbsup

Actually, I haven't seen that ANYTHING would change after the EU jailbreak in 2004, apart from dealing with more bullshit and that more donations for totally worthless idiotic things like supporting worthless projects are being cashed.

If you have a business and want to apply for donation, you don't have a chance either, have you ever seen the form you need to fill to apply for money from EU? I did.

The available budgets are used only in 30 - 50 pct.

FALSE

This is what EU wants you to believe, yes there are indeed money invested in the infrastructure, but it's just so you have to deal with 500 more overpaid brussel idiots and pay THEIR free lunch to get 30 pct of the funding you could do on your own - the average length of the administrative process - 18 months.

FALSE

The exporters here have lost already over 4 billiion USD in the past year because not being able to trade in EUR - in unified currency.

EUR makes sense, EU not.


TRUE

But this will NEVER work,

you would have to be an idiot to count on countries that weren't able to learn what work means during their whole history to change their national mindset by waving a magical EU wand

:winkwink:


Welcome to the Eastern Europe!

:1orglaugh

And you didn't even mention the only important country in Eastern Europe - Russia.

Please tell EU to build you another highway, last time I drove to Warszaw I had to deal with cows and goats in the road!

:winkwink:

Ok, the ball is in your court now!

I'm out to dedicate myself again to such a mondane, boring and mediocre thing as work.

The fall of the Soviet empire was a major cornerstone.

The world did change, it's more money in you pockets these days to feed China and capitalize on their junk.

Money are in the east. Russia and China know this very well.

Italians want to put euro out,not Germans:)
And i mean fuck it,euro is worst fucking thing they did...lol

Vuk, you know more about eastern Europe than anyone else here, please, help me!

:winkwink:

I think at this point we can just agree to disagree. I think time will show I am right.

"Hot off the press" is an English idiom:
http://www.answers.com/hot%20off%20the%20press

Ah, please excuse my ignorant Eurotrash ass.

:winkwink:

Paul, this is NOT correct.

It's not that there would EVER be a chance for a broke individual to get any credit or credit card UNLESS he was a little bit smart between 1990 and 1995.

It was a little bit different, the wild transformation was wild on all levels.

They thought that the "free market" will work in a country full of thieves, of course they lost billions of $ during the first four or five years after the break of the iron curtain, then many of those banks went bankrupt and government bailed out the creditors.

Those who got loans and made it in a smart way never paid anything back,

The USUAL SCHEME was to start about 10 companies registered on some kind of an idiot that you paid like 500 $ a month to double his income, provide about 10 fake business plans, bribe a specialist to get you an overpriced quote on any real estate or anything you "planned" to purchase / renovate / build and add something fake as a warranty (usually something that doesn't exist or that you don't own or has no value).

After you cash out those 10 loans and stop paying back, banks will find idiots sitting in a village in the ass of the world that not even know they own a company that is buried in debt.

There are also other schemes.

I know personally a guy who made about 50 million $ in cash on fake loans, he's dead now.

You could see idiots in trainers driving MB S-Classe all over the place, red suits and all kinds of funny things, I use to tell many of those stories when I share a beer with the west.

This recession sucks.

The EEC is controlled by politicians and beaurocrats. The one thing these people love is bigger budgets and bigger departments. So the more countries they have to look after the bigger their department and the bigger their budget. And of course spewing out a never ending tirade of instructions, guidelines and laws.

Time will only show us that the progress of mankind is after its horizon now, ignorance rules and someone will always be able to capitalize on this, no matter what's been played on Bloomberg or printed in private owned newspapers.

:)

Here's the breakdown:

19th century - industrial revolution

20th century - the century of science and mass media / clash of ideologies

21th century - a century of ignorance / incompetence / idiocy / beaurocracy and fail

I forgot to state that this is also a complete non sense.

EU doesn't need to entice any of these countries to join, having a country like for example Poland or Romania is and always will be a major pain in the ass for EU as it would be for any organization that is, of course hypothetically, built on productivity.

It's nothing more than just a strategical expansion to build a new barrier against the influence of the east by acquiring severe worthless satellites, nothing more than a strategical and ideological move.

The EU did not need to entice these countries to join? What are you talking about? Protection from Russia, open trade and travel through all of Europe, EU investment in their infrastructure, financial support, increased private investment, etc, etc.... These are some of the things the EU was offering as an incentive for these Eastern European countries that join. If the EU truly had nothing to offer why would any of these countries join? :1orglaugh

:2 cents:

These are all very nice cliches that sound extremely interesting until you really have to DEAL with European Union.

To further my point - there is no benefit in acquiring a worthless country without a production of strategic goods or anything else to put on the table, if there is one, name it to me.

EU only needs to strategically expand.

well if europe was that much in trouble, even worse than the USA i am sure we would have heard about it. As we in the Netherlands have a very transparant news system, who do not keep things from us. Also if people would try there is always some one talking here. SO i can't believe this true. Sounds more like it can always be worse look at them. Make the states look better as they often try to do.

Yeah, the honeymoon is over for many of these countries...

Well, in all fairness Europe has mostly pointed the finger at the US saying they are the cause of this mess. The US did not make Western European banks become so overleveraged. It's even funnier to hear it come from the Brits since the US Federal Reserve (and ultimately the US tax payer) has been discreetlyt bailing out the Bank of England since last year (Dollar swap lines).

There is apparently over 16 trillion pounds of bad debt in the EU and most of the populace does not think the problem is anywhere near that big. People are going to be in for a surprise. It is not going to be pretty...

Europe is in trouble - not to be sceptical - for at least the past 20 years.

The transparent news system is doing a great job so people can't put two pieces of information together and rather watch a a 4 min prime time live broadcast of rescuing Timmy the cat from the sewer that's full of Eurotrash shit.

My advice to my only one and very favorite country:

to the United States of America,

to the only country that has always treated me well

to the country I make most of my money from

to the country that I learned the most about the life from

and, not to forget - to the country with an attitude,

is to say :

Fuck you, make sure you know where your ass is before you start to point fingers!

:winkwink:

how is it bailing out the UK, there's dollar swap lines with the ECB and many other countries is thee not? and surely that strengthens the dollar and is good for the US isn't it?

There is with the Bank of England. I don't think there is with the ECB. Not sure. Yes, we have this with a few other central banks as well. How is a bail out? They can just take cash as needed directly from the Federal Reserve. How is it NOT a bail out?

A strong dollar is great if your target market is the US, you get paid in Dollars and your expenses are either in Dollars or a currency that is losing value to the Dollar. It's terrible for exports though. Look at how the Yen doing a moonshot has destroyed Japan's economy. Their exports are dead.

The biggest problems with these swap lines is that if the UK, or whatever country that a swap line with us, crashes we immediately go down with them and there is a huge risk we never get paid back. It's very dangerous. And don't even get me started about how the Fed has absolutely no authority to make the US tax payer prop up foreign governments like this...

yes the ECB as well as the Bank of Japan, Bank of England and the Swiss National Bank amongst others.

Don't confuse authority with interests.

FED is a privately held bank.

:2 cents:

Well official sources usually mention formulations such as "quasi-public" but US and UK are actually the only two countries I can remind me of, where the central bank is not under the complete control of the government.

They won't teach you this on the universities, official sources are a little bit scared of the fact, people should not be allowed to think about it.

It's ingenious.