Medical bills are the number one reason people file bankruptcy these days. They are the number one reason people fall deeply into debt. You fix that issue for the middle class and it frees up a lot of money from people. More mortgages get paid, more credit cards paid, and banks have less strain. Health care reform isn't just about health, it's about the financial system and strengthening the middle class.

ROFL LMAO :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Just posting those words above tell me all I need to know about you and your arguments. Isnt it past your bedtime?

Mortgage and bank accounts are very different. I'm sure you know that. Regardless of how devalued a house may get, you still have the house in the end. Its just always been my opinion that any money you have in the stock market shouldn't be there unless you can afford to lose it.

401k's weren't always the way to invest for retirement. Its a risk and people should know that. I don't even think we have "401k's" in canada. I have RRSP's and GIC's both of which while may not gain very much when the market does poorly, don't lose anything when it does either. But no, I don't really like to make money by investing. Its too risky and while it can pay out big, it can also bust big.

Talking point quoted like a true socialist. No matter what you think I promise you someone will pay their mortgage before they pay their health care bills. Lol so let me get this straight you are of the opinion that fixing health care will help us in the least bit?

A few days ago they were saying on the news that the Obama team was going to "stress test" several banks to see if they were capable of sustaining themselves. Then there was a report that the government was about to buy up to a 36 percent share in Citibank. It looks like nationalization is just around the corner.

You and I both know if tomorrow Obama came out and said he was nationalizing all banks the republican party would collectively shit little green elk. At the same time if he said there will be no more money for any banks and we will see which ones fail and which survive the democrats (who can't stand to let anything fail) would do the same. He has to walk a tightrope here. Doing either of these things is a big, messy step. Maybe it is okay to take some time and make sure is the correct step.

Canada = socialism
Our conversation is done how can you even begin to know what capitalism is?

For the record every time you use the term White...err I mean Black House, you destroy any credibility you may have created with reasonable arguments.

So.... let me get this straight. Since Obama doesnt want to look like an ass he fucks the American people in the ass by passing a crap bill that doesnt even address the problems of our crisis? Gotcha.

What a cop out. :1orglaugh

Why is that? I dont like the fucking monkey. Oh and people called Bush a monkey so thats not racist unless of course you think black people look like monkeys and Bush is black as well? Fuck Obama he is just as crooked as the rest of them, hell even worse because while Bush lied to us behind our backs and tried to cover shit up Obama lies to our fucking face then pulls our hair back while fucking us saying "You like that dont ya white bitches!"

No seriously not a cop out you just out right dismiss my countrys success over the years. You just simply say well "see thats what you get for being capitalists". Thats not an argument sorry. If you understood what America is about you might be able to argue with me but I think you are too biased towards a socialist life.

So having a national health care system is the thing that makes a country socialist? Do you even know what socialism is? We crossed that bridge a couple centuries ago.

I understand you're all worked up but really, think about what you say. Where did i dismiss America's success? I love America and want to see its people be very successful. Too many people were dismissing the dangers of market bubbles and feeding that BS to the layman who doesn't have a clue and bam, there goes Johnnys college funds or Granny's retirement money. Neither of those people should of been playing with money they can't afford to lose.

To some degree I think it will. Take me for example. I have asthma and I can't buy health insurance that will cover anything asthma related (although if I lived in a different state I might be able to) so I pay for my medicine and any asthma related expenses out of pocket. If my health insurance covered asthma it would free up more money for me to spend each month on other things. Now I am the kind of person who would just put that money in savings or invest it in something, but others would use it to go out to dinner or buy other things. They would be putting that money back into their local economies and not into the pocket of a pharmaceutical company. If there are 20 million people who had a few extra hundred dollars per month to spend, it could be a nice little boost. It won't be huge, but it could be something.

Also the overall cost of medical care should drop because there will be far fewer people who don't pay. When someone goes to the hospital or doctor and doesn't pay that cost is passed on to those that do. Without those pass on costs the overall cost of healthcare should come down which will save people even more money.

Canada is a mix of a lot of things but the person was questioning capitalism and its success(which has been proven over time). Plus lets not mention the fact that Canada has a monarch, I mean come on how can an average Canadian citizen criticize capitalism when they cant even escape the British empire?

ad hominem attacks are a poor substitute for a lucid discussion.

Lol where do you think the money COMES FROM for universal health care? LOL
Seriously you guys are not that naive are you?

When you can partake in a lucid discussion let me know. :thumbsup

My point is that you claimed he either needed to nationalize the banks or cut them off and let the bad ones fail. I said it looks like he is moving towards nationalizing some of them and he is testing the waters. Maybe he will do something with them, maybe he won't, but he appears to be looking at it.

This has nothing to do with the stimulus bill. Sure, addressing the banks in the bill would have been great, but they didn't it looks like he looking at them as a separate issue. That is all I was saying. Cutting them off of nationalizing them is a big step and could have heavy ramifications. It could greatly effect what he is able to do in the future so I see nothing wrong with proceeding with caution.

How many years was it on Bushies watch think about it.

It has nothing to do with Bush. You insist on making a statement about his race and to me that makes you come off like an idiot. If you hate him because he is black - which is exactly what I take that statement to mean - then it removes some of the credibility of your other statements.

It is kind of like saying, "That guy really can pitch. . . for a black dude." It makes it seem like the reason he is doing what he is doing is because he is black. It just makes you come off as ignorant. That is all.

I'm just saying that calling people socialists for wanting universal health care is hypocritical. If you like having a police and fire department, you're a socialist. If you like having roads you're a socialist. If you like having schools, parks, and a military then you fall in line with socialism. We are a socialist country. Always have been and always will be.

Ok so in the midst of the greatest economic crisis the world has seen Obama decides to pass a half socialist/half debt deferred to taxpayer bill? :error:error:error:error

He is taking action, but not on the right things at all. Stress test will only make banks horde cash, you think they are going to lend while the government has them under a microscope? Worst idea ever. You expect capitalists who are competing against each other to act equal? They are gonna all try to pass the tests and I bet the administration comes out of this with not a fucking clue as to which ones they should save.

I know exactly where the money comes from. The question was will universal health care help the economy. I said it could. I didn't say it wouldn't cost money, but it could do a little help. The potential benefits of a universal health care plan are far and wide, just as are the potential problems with it if it is done poorly.

So would it help stimulate the economy? Maybe. At what cost? Who knows.

I guess we will see. The guy has been in office for 30 days. I don't think he is a messiah. I don't agree with everything he has done. In the end there are a ton of economist who say his plan will help. There are also a ton of economist who say it will not. Only time will tell.

As for the banks, again, I said before taking some time to look at the banks and make the right choice is not a terrible thing.

the "I know you are, but what am I?" defense.

Brilliant.

Semantics my friend semantics. Obviously Canada is more socialist than America. There is no doubt of that. America is the king of Capitalism, and there is no doubt of that.

I wouldn't go that far yet. I believe this is the year we pass them up for percent of GDP spent. And if the Kings of Capitalism just nationalized most of the banking, mortgage, investment, and insurance industry, I'd hate to see what the Queen is doing.

Splum, it's okay to get out of the closet and see the light. You won't be chastised for being Rush Limbaughs little cocksucking bitch.

You won't win any SEO awards by combining words like "cocksucking". :error:error:error

http://www.saucywords.com/

lol, good luck

you do realize that there's NO ONE in the world that can fix all the problems in the US just like that, right? I don't care if Obama said he will try shit to fix thing. He never said "I will fix shit as soon as I'm in office and life will be like heaven"

I don't care who the new president was. It would not help shit and especially not quickly IF it did. Seems that you're blaming the new president for the dow dropping... again.. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but that started way before Barrack was president.

Things are only going to get worse mark my words.

Yes as long as monkey boy is running the show we are fucked.

This is all Obama's fault, he's the reason why the banks collapsed and the Dow closed at levels that haven't been seen since 1997. If McCain was elected there would be no recession and the Dow will be at record highs.

I just spot checked this thread... but, have any of you thought about shorting the market?

29 dow lost 90 percent of it's value... we are at half right now. There is some money to be made...

Correction, the markets have gone into the toilet since Obama was officially nominated.

The markets knew what was coming.

What the current administration fails to recognize is that every time they distribute money the market tanks further.

Lastly, who has held control of both houses for the last two years? Bush was a lame duck starting two years ago. Are you so fickle that you forgot who swept into power in 2006 + 2008?

The mid-term elections in 2010 will be quite interesting... if the country does not fall into complete civil unrest by then.

The only positive note, is that the people born from 1980 forward are going to get a big heaping dish of what it was like to live under FDR and Jimmy Carter. Enjoy.

Got ammo?

Your initial statement is probably correct... as McCain rolled over and went back to Washington to vote for the initial bailouts.

The problem, long term, is foundation differences between the left and right on how these issues can be resolved. I am of the belief everything they are doing now will only make the situation worse... as was done during the depression (the first one) and in Japan (90's forward).

The politicians in this country hate pain and assume the people of this country hate pain... so they will take the band-aid/kick the can attitude which will only main this more painful. I would take 2 years a carnage then decades of wondering "why ain't this shit working".

We will never address the root causes so we are patching the Titanic until it all implodes. The time bombs planted during the first depression are all going to explode in the coming years. The time bombs they are planting now will explode quicker than expect.

The entire system, thanks to Lincoln, FDR, Wilson, and every other shitty president this country has had - is doomed to fail. You can not have a strong centralized government robbing the earners and spreading it to other parts of the nation... long term. Balkanization is an option and an option that might gain traction if things really fall apart. During boom times business/social relationships ignore issues... During blow ups people go primal and survival is the motivation.

Sales are through the roof yo!

WOOHOO!

the stock market had a drop below 7000 back in 97.

this didn't happen overnight you fucking idiot :1orglaugh

Only one policy? I could write a book on why we are where we are at.

Your entire comment assumes that all of our problems occurred in the last 8 years and everything up until 2000 was great.

Your blind party devotion is exactly what the machine needs to survive. Us against them, and completely ignore the facts... or not bother to review history.

:thumbsup

why not write on my blog?? It's a good cause brother and this topic seems appropriate as well.

www.creditcardxsales.com

That about sums it up for you. :2 cents:

ftw
 

it was "nut to butt" at costco ... :1orglaugh

http://www.fuckyoumang.com/poltergeist-geezer.gif

Yes investors really seem to be loving what he is doing. Most of his speeches on the economy where he makes a statement pointing towards a course of action ... the lemmings cry because their Jesus spoke, and the investors get the fuck out of the stock market because they feel a fool is in charge. If the people with money had any confidence in what he promises then they wouldn't be jumping ship after each of his pretty speeches.

LOL you are just a middle man making money off of other people. What "sales" are you talking about? Desperate webmasters trying to regain traffic because they are losing money? LOL

:2 cents: :thumbsup

That is pretty much spot on.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Should have been builing stuff instead of sending almost all manufacturing over seas.:2 cents: