Wow! They took a little time to grow up... hehe

walmart is the tube sites of retail

Seriously Walmart... Dole peaches from fucking China?

in moderation it doesn't do anything..

WalMart = low cost competitor. They are geniuses at it

I shop here..

http://blogs.cgdev.org/globaldevelop...ia-grocery.jpg

Who compares the prices on groceries? To much time on your hands!

Walmart sells more products -> prices go down.

fuck walmart and mcdonalds

If you knew that some employees making the clothes make 2 cents an hour and worked mandatory overtime daily, 7 days a week (but with a free snack at midnight) and slept in the factory in a 3 by 5 foot rental unit that comes out of their pay, does it matter?
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/chinablue/

If a Wlmart comes in and hires 100 people and it results in 2 or 3 mom and pop places with a combined payroll of 15, then they have created 85 new jobs by my math.

That too.

Wallmart selling a shirt for 4.00 vs mom and pops 15.00 doesn't mean it requires a different number of people to sell the shirt. that's quite a gap in logic... that "cheaper products" require "fewer employees"

i can understand what you are saying and understand the general arguments... however, we are supposed to be living in the USA, not Communist North Korea. People vote by the millions everyday on this issue. They vote with their wallets and their hard earned money. If they vote YES for Wallmart and NO for mom and pop, then that's life. If you truly believe in capitalism, you shouldn't be telling people how they should spend their money. supply and demand is exactly that.

The economy is not a zero sum system. Economies grow. Wealth is created. You can't treat it is a static idea and a simple zero sum system where if someone wins, someone must lose. It doesn't work like that. People save money at Wallmart and spend it elsewhere in their community. Perhaps to start their own companies and even grow jobs/consumption. That all has nothing to do with what Wallmart does with its tiny profit from a small town.

I am not for Wallmart
I am not for small business

I am for the consumers right to choose how they want to spend their own hard earned money. You can't be a true believer in democracy and only support it when your side wins.... anymore than you can believe in capitalism so long as everything is fair, even and you agree with the outcomes. We became the worlds largest economy by adhering to certain ideals. End of story. No one has surpassed us, because they are too busy trying to figure out how to guarantee equality of outcome rather than ensuring equality of opportunity.



:2 cents:

I've actually been shopping ONLY at Trader Joes and I have realized that I spend less, and I can go a lot longer between shopping trips. I've shopped at Walmart a few times, and each time I do, I end up buying $50 worth of DVD's, PS3 games, etc. On top of $150 in food, a simple midnight shopping trip turns into a fiasco.

As for the food, I usually buy a lot more crap, so Trader Joes is the best option for me. The food is much more fresh, the people are nicer and I only spend $200 a month for groceries (and I eat 6 times a day). TJ all the way! :thumbsup

While Wal-Mart definitely can be cheaper for a lot of things, it is not always the case. You are also in many cases NOT comparing the same product, even if it is in the same packaging and with the same SKU.

For example, many companies will have say a box of 12 "something" that is sent to normal retail distribution. They also have a wal-mart product that uses the *same box* (so it looks identical) but actually has 10 of the "somethings" inside it. The wal-mart version is cheaper, but actually the same/slightly higher cost per unit to the consumer.

While I absolutely admire wal-mart for many things they have done awesomely, I don't agree overall with their business practices. Having been on the supplier side of wal-mart, they play very dirty. Many times this IS a benefit to their customer, but in my opinion a detriment to the way of life I would like to see in this country.

Say you make widgets.. Wal-mart wants your widgets in their store. You usually sell widgets for $2.00/ea. Wal-mart comes to you (or you come to them) and they say "well, we'll buy your widgets for $1.75 but increase your volume 10fold". This is usually a win for you! Yay! 10 times the volume! Everything is going good, you just massively expanded your business to be able to handle your new huge customer. Then... a year later wal-mart says "sorry.. we calculate you can make said widget for $1.60. You will give us this price or we will no longer carry your product". Now you're stuck. It costs you $1.59 to make said widgets, but you cannot stop distribution to wal-mart since now you're beholden to the volume plus the huge capital you invested in being able to handle them to begin with. So you do it.

Fast forward a couple years, and wal-mart will "suggest" you move production to a cheaper locale than the US - because then you can sell them widgets at $.99/ea. This is after you've cut out every last ounce of 'waste' you could have in making said widgets. Some good, some bad. Some of this waste were things like making your widget less reliable.

While buying household goods at wal-mart is generally good, you would be *amazed* at some of the things that are different there. In many cases, wal-mart picks up an established brand and sells it as-is the first year or two and establishes themselves as the retail channel of choice for said brand. But 5 years later, what you buy at wal-mart with the same label as somewhere else - are completely different items. Many large brands maintain a "wal-mart" distribution channel (less quality, lower price), and a "standard" distribution channel.

I know we did for what we sold. Wal-mart got the worst product we had, since we had the worst terms with them. Wal-mart also will slowly impose onerous things like you being responsible for shrinkage (how?!? we have no control over it!), product returns, etc. Basically a vendor gets paid when the sale is rung up - if the item is stolen or whatever, well tough shit.

Now.. Wal-mart has absolutely done amazing things in the automation of stock levels, streamlined distribution systems, etc. For this, I do admire them. I also have to admire in a pervase way the means they can manhandle vendors so freely. They truly do think it is best for their customers I believe.

If you can show me an example of where a Wal-Mart store came to a community and the result of that was a net plus of 85 jobs, then I'll agree with you.

Otherwise you're just making up a hypothetical that doesn't ever happen.

Actually one of the reasons Wal-Mart can sell a shirt for $4 is because they keep labor costs low. Both in terms of cost per hour worked, and hours worked per dollar of goods sold, so there is no gap in my logic.
I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just saying that retailers don't "create jobs".

Also, chill the fuck out. Who the fuck said anything about America vs communist north korea?

I said that Wal-Mart is good for the overall economy several times in this thread. The only problem I have with them is getting tax breaks to bring a store into town and the politicians using the "they're bringing jobs here" argument, because that's bullshit.

They should pay the same taxes as every other retail business in town. :2 cents:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAH

Yeah, our becoming the world's largest economy is only because of a set of ideals. It had nothing to do with Europe and Asia's infrastructure being decimated during World War II while ours was left almost 100% intact, giving us a 15-20 year head start on the post war industrial age.
It has nothing to do with the amount of natural resources we have or the amount of arable land available on our continent.

It's all because of these ideals that you cling to like a religion.

Jesus Christ dude, I can agree that there are good things about capitalism and the free enterprise system, but you worship at the altar like capitalism is Jehovah and you're a witness.
Quit drinking the kool-aid for a minute and realize that there are other possible reasons for our proseperity besides capitalism and that in some cases there are better ways to do things than leave them to the free market.

If you're not willing to do that then you've obviously detached yourself from all logic in order to cling to an ideology, and it's pointless to discuss things with a person who won't respond to reason or logic.

I'm with you on this. I know when I buy something like a T-shirt at walmart it's going to fall apart alot quicker than one from somewhere else, even if they both say fruit of the loom or hanes on them.

With food though, a gallon of milk is a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread is a loaf of bread....which is why I'm shocked by the drastic price difference, because I don't see how the difference is anything other than how much the store chooses to mark things up, or how good of a deal they can negotiate with the supplier.

And with food, that's one area where Wal-Mart isn't the #1 seller in the country. Not all Wal-Mart's sell groceries, and there are other grocery chains that do more volume than they do....but they still just kill them on the retail price.
It's crazy.

The CNBC special on WalMart was highly interesting, all about the company's culture and methods. Very well done, imo.

There's no Walmart near my house, but I do admit to shopping at Costco for my bulk needs like toilet paper, paper towel, olive oil, razor blades, etc. Everything fresh I get from the local farmer's market store and everything else from Thrifty Foods. I'm glad there's no WalMart around here. They just kill all the local business for miles around.

When we shop at Costco we almost always wind up spending $300 or more dollars for things like whole beef tenderloins, king crab legs, huge crates of stuff we probably won't use in a year, etc.

Even shopping at the 3 local supermarkets our bill runs 2-300 every week or 2, but I like to cook and a lot of times I need exotic or expensive spices, weird ingredients, things like that. It all adds up.

Trader Joe's, looking back, I do think we spend less, but Whole Foods is definitely crazy expensive, but very high quality and/or organic products.

Costco is nuts. I am for the most part a vegetarian though (I do eat fish occasionally though), so spending money on fresh meat isn't much of an issue. We do cook a lot around here as my wife is a "foodie", so I hear you about the spices, oils, etc. The best part of Trader Joes is the flash frozen fish. It's not as fresh as something fresh from the butcher, but it's a hell of a lot better than something from a grocer freezer. :thumbsup

Try a comparison though...SHop TJ's once a month, and another retailer the next, and you'd be surprised at the financial comparison! And yes, Whole Foods is ridiculous. I only go there if I need a quick bite, and I grab a veggie wrap from the to go area. Their beers are great as well. :thumbsup

I do the same thing at Sam's. I end up spending more than I otherwise would because I buy things I would never buy if they didn't look like such a "deal".

And they have all these "new products" that I want to try, but you have to buy such a large quantity, and if I don't like it, then it ends up going to waste. (Like the tub of bruschetta I bought last month)

I've definitely become a "shop with a list" guy lately. I won't deviate from the list no matter what, saves alot of $$.

i don't worship anything. i think there is good and bad in all economic and political systems. in our case, i simply believe that hands off, on the whole,.. produces more good than bad. i can't say its free from "bad" and certainly don't believe that.

california... a single US State is the worlds 5th largest economy.. that has nothing to do with asia, hitler or anything else. it has to do with the creation of wealth. the fact 98% of countries in the world lag behind a single state has nothing to do with "head starts" anymore than Africas failure as a continent has anything to do with not being impacted by the war at all.

the only people that are so dismissive of these notions are those who have never created any amount of wealth themselves.

you're not supposed to be shopping at chain stores remember? you're all about the small businessman and against the big chains.

:2 cents::2 cents:

I shop at Safeway and Smart and Final. The times I have went to WalMart the stores are always packed with people. The lines were long too.

I've heard Whole Foods is good. They're also on Fortunes best places to work 2008 I think. My grocery store is Wegmans, made #3 on Fortunes list.
Wal mart? Didnt make top 50.

Great PBS documentary about Walmart that talks about the above scenario
China really needs to thank Walmart

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

Just an FYI....that one state with the world's 5th largest economy has the country's 6th largest tax burden on individuals, and some of the most onerous regulations on business.

To throw a wrench in your "hands off is best" theory.

I never once fucking said that asshole. Quit putting goddamn words in my mother fucking mouth.
You must be confusing me with someone else so would you please learn to read and fucking stop it?

I put in big fucking bold letters in my last post that WAL MART IS GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY and yet you still have this delusion that I'm against big chains.

I don't know what you're fucking problem is, but I've made the exact opposite case throughout this entire thread.

Learn to fucking read dipshit.

i'd rather pay more $ for fresh organic good. in the long run i spend less on doctor visits.

Huh?

What the hell does "authority" have to do with it?

its bankrupt... has been forever. it succeeds in spite of idiotic government policies, taxes and regulations, not because of them.

and as i said.. no path is perfect. i simply said "i believe that" less interference with entrepreneurship does greater good and trying to fix any and all social inequalities at the expense of entrepreneurs.

you're kind of a lunatic.

what made you so angry anyway? you're the one saying Wallmart destroys jobs and communities.... then you are saying Wallmart is good for the economy... then your saying i'm confused and putting words in your mouth.

it can't destroy local communities and be good for the economy as a whole. that doesn't even make sense. you cant have a net good come from what you yourself claim is nothing but bad.

I do all my shopping at Walmart, You really do save $$$$$

Personally, I feel Wal-Mart is bad for the economy. However, I understand enough to realize I have absolutely no clue when it comes to economic theory.

All I can see are the results of how they treat people. I am not a fan.

Part of me feels I was born about 2 generations late :) I am much more of a small town, main street sort of guy.. I'd much rather pay more to buy from someone I know in the community, who helps support a lifestyle I enjoy. I still try to do this here, but not nearly as much as I'd like.

I also feel that many smaller companies, while certainly less efficient in most cases, are orders of magnitude more resilient than huge monolithic corporations. See the banking crisis for this - you don't see too many small credit unions who didn't farm out loans going bankrupt or asking for money - they made responsible financial decisions and while hurting, are still fairly healthy today. When the people selling the product (in this case, loans) don't have to stand by it - then you get into the scenario we have today of effectively scam artists running things.

Sorry.. went off topic

I think you will find, that Wal-Mart takes a loss on the staple foods that grab headlines/attention such as Milk, Bread, etc. This gets people into the store because it is "so cheap!!!" and then they can charge higher amounts for other products when you don't notice.

It would be interesting to take a standard shopping list containing a nice mix of milk, cheese, meat, fruits/veggies, prepared foods, etc. and buying the exact same quantity/brand (when possible) from both Wal-mart, and your local discount grocer (here it would be Cub Foods - not something fancy like Wegmans or other "higher end" grocery stores). Also of course be careful a "box of pop tarts" or whatever is the same from both stores - e.g. verify quantities :)

I think you will find the totals are pretty close, far closer than you may think.

You have some severe reading comprehension problems.

I didn't write half of what you think I did. You must have misread or not understood the subtlety of some of the points I was making.

Your lack of comprehension doesn't = me not making sense.

I said that Wal-Mart was good, but does not deserve special tax considerations from municipalities. Those two statements are not inconsistent with each other.

You are the one who chose to use California as an example. Then you say they succeed "despite" the government policies, not because of them.
Then why don't other states with lower tax burdens and less regulations grow even more than California? You use California as your example of why free markets rule, and then dismiss the fact that the market there is less free than it is in most other places in the country.....but I'm the one who is confused?

Maybe free market capitalism has very little to do with California being a large economy. Perhaps the climate and proximity to the ocean are the reason people move there and bring their capital with them, and that grows the economy?

I bought an Acai drink from Publix market 2 weeks ago and it was $4.99 I bought the same exact brand and size drink for Walmart Neighborhood Market (Their food only store here in Florida) for $3.39 yesterday. All other prices are similarly disproportionate. I'd much rather give my money to Publix but I find myself saving so much money at the Walmart store it doesn't make sense to shop elsewhere.

And I do know the ramifications of shopping at Walmart.

SouthPark nailed this along time ago BTW.