Actually all of that money is calculated into the profit margin. The shelf space money and rebates etc are how they sell coke for $2/12 pack when they're paying $3/12 pack for it from coke.

Most of these chains are public companies so you can read their financials if you want, and their net profit is going to be 1% of sales, give or take a tenth or two.....with all of that stuff included.

Sometimes I do. I guess I'm not snobby enough for you, sorry about that.

what's a walmart?
I've driven past a few.

Some of us dont have the choice if we want to get the things that we like and that are quality. Yeah can you believe that?? But For me its different. I live outside the US.

wrong.

if you are doing it cheaper... in terms of total disposable income, there is a net gain in the community... which then leads to more spending elsewhere on other goods and services.

HAving just moved into Georgia I'm finding the grocery stores here to be completely outrageous in prices. Even with their so called super saver cards etc. I have 3 that I drive past now and drive an extra 13 miles to the closest Wal-mart. I normally spend 150-200 bucks on stuff and save around 50-75 bucks for that extra distance...

Example milk..

Almost 6 bucks a gallon wal-mart brand 3 bucks. (I go though 2-3 gallons a week with 2 little kids so the 6-9 bucks difference in price right there is half a tank of gas.)

if you want better value for your money... and want the right to spend your money how you wish... according to some, you're just a greedy, selfish, capitalist pig. keep that in mind when making your spending decisions.

:2 cents:

Yes but if you're doing it cheaper then that inevitably means that you're employing fewer people to do it, which more than offsets any gain made by the money other consumers save.

Plus the profit from Wal-Mart goes back to Arkansas, but the profit from the mom and pops they put out of business stayed in the local community.

I agree that Wal-Mart is a net plus for the community because people get things cheaper, but it's not a net plus for jobs. It doesn't create jobs, it at best transfers jobs and at worst destroys them.
My point with that is that when you ask a mayor or councilman why Wal-Mart gets so many tax breaks and they say "they brought 500 jobs to this town", they're full of shit. The net employment figures for the community are the same or worse....and therefore they don't deserve any of the tax breaks or incentives you would give to say a manufacturing company to come to town. :2 cents:

We just went through alot of this locally with a giant shopping development being built that's going to have 150 stores. The developers/retailers etc all wanted tax breaks and incentives to build this here....and the local pols had the local university economics dept do studies to see if it was worth it.
The conclusion was that retail businesses don't create jobs. These people want to move here to sell things to people that already live here. It benefits them way more than it benefits us and it doesn't bring any new money into the community. (other than the 6 month long, one-off construction jobs to build the place)

Walmart and others buy merch. and sells them "low" because the chinese factories pay 2 cents an hour for underage chinese girls to produce cheap products for them and others.

We buy 90% of our food from Walmart because of the prices. Only other options we have here is a Safeway which we only buy things that are on sale.

I can't shop in walmart. I'd rather pay 20% for the convenience of NOT dealing with the subhuman trash who infest those stores.

Wow! They took a little time to grow up... hehe

walmart is the tube sites of retail

Seriously Walmart... Dole peaches from fucking China?

in moderation it doesn't do anything..

WalMart = low cost competitor. They are geniuses at it

I shop here..

http://blogs.cgdev.org/globaldevelop...ia-grocery.jpg

Who compares the prices on groceries? To much time on your hands!

Walmart sells more products -> prices go down.

fuck walmart and mcdonalds

If you knew that some employees making the clothes make 2 cents an hour and worked mandatory overtime daily, 7 days a week (but with a free snack at midnight) and slept in the factory in a 3 by 5 foot rental unit that comes out of their pay, does it matter?
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/chinablue/

If a Wlmart comes in and hires 100 people and it results in 2 or 3 mom and pop places with a combined payroll of 15, then they have created 85 new jobs by my math.

That too.

Wallmart selling a shirt for 4.00 vs mom and pops 15.00 doesn't mean it requires a different number of people to sell the shirt. that's quite a gap in logic... that "cheaper products" require "fewer employees"

i can understand what you are saying and understand the general arguments... however, we are supposed to be living in the USA, not Communist North Korea. People vote by the millions everyday on this issue. They vote with their wallets and their hard earned money. If they vote YES for Wallmart and NO for mom and pop, then that's life. If you truly believe in capitalism, you shouldn't be telling people how they should spend their money. supply and demand is exactly that.

The economy is not a zero sum system. Economies grow. Wealth is created. You can't treat it is a static idea and a simple zero sum system where if someone wins, someone must lose. It doesn't work like that. People save money at Wallmart and spend it elsewhere in their community. Perhaps to start their own companies and even grow jobs/consumption. That all has nothing to do with what Wallmart does with its tiny profit from a small town.

I am not for Wallmart
I am not for small business

I am for the consumers right to choose how they want to spend their own hard earned money. You can't be a true believer in democracy and only support it when your side wins.... anymore than you can believe in capitalism so long as everything is fair, even and you agree with the outcomes. We became the worlds largest economy by adhering to certain ideals. End of story. No one has surpassed us, because they are too busy trying to figure out how to guarantee equality of outcome rather than ensuring equality of opportunity.



:2 cents:

I've actually been shopping ONLY at Trader Joes and I have realized that I spend less, and I can go a lot longer between shopping trips. I've shopped at Walmart a few times, and each time I do, I end up buying $50 worth of DVD's, PS3 games, etc. On top of $150 in food, a simple midnight shopping trip turns into a fiasco.

As for the food, I usually buy a lot more crap, so Trader Joes is the best option for me. The food is much more fresh, the people are nicer and I only spend $200 a month for groceries (and I eat 6 times a day). TJ all the way! :thumbsup

While Wal-Mart definitely can be cheaper for a lot of things, it is not always the case. You are also in many cases NOT comparing the same product, even if it is in the same packaging and with the same SKU.

For example, many companies will have say a box of 12 "something" that is sent to normal retail distribution. They also have a wal-mart product that uses the *same box* (so it looks identical) but actually has 10 of the "somethings" inside it. The wal-mart version is cheaper, but actually the same/slightly higher cost per unit to the consumer.

While I absolutely admire wal-mart for many things they have done awesomely, I don't agree overall with their business practices. Having been on the supplier side of wal-mart, they play very dirty. Many times this IS a benefit to their customer, but in my opinion a detriment to the way of life I would like to see in this country.

Say you make widgets.. Wal-mart wants your widgets in their store. You usually sell widgets for $2.00/ea. Wal-mart comes to you (or you come to them) and they say "well, we'll buy your widgets for $1.75 but increase your volume 10fold". This is usually a win for you! Yay! 10 times the volume! Everything is going good, you just massively expanded your business to be able to handle your new huge customer. Then... a year later wal-mart says "sorry.. we calculate you can make said widget for $1.60. You will give us this price or we will no longer carry your product". Now you're stuck. It costs you $1.59 to make said widgets, but you cannot stop distribution to wal-mart since now you're beholden to the volume plus the huge capital you invested in being able to handle them to begin with. So you do it.

Fast forward a couple years, and wal-mart will "suggest" you move production to a cheaper locale than the US - because then you can sell them widgets at $.99/ea. This is after you've cut out every last ounce of 'waste' you could have in making said widgets. Some good, some bad. Some of this waste were things like making your widget less reliable.

While buying household goods at wal-mart is generally good, you would be *amazed* at some of the things that are different there. In many cases, wal-mart picks up an established brand and sells it as-is the first year or two and establishes themselves as the retail channel of choice for said brand. But 5 years later, what you buy at wal-mart with the same label as somewhere else - are completely different items. Many large brands maintain a "wal-mart" distribution channel (less quality, lower price), and a "standard" distribution channel.

I know we did for what we sold. Wal-mart got the worst product we had, since we had the worst terms with them. Wal-mart also will slowly impose onerous things like you being responsible for shrinkage (how?!? we have no control over it!), product returns, etc. Basically a vendor gets paid when the sale is rung up - if the item is stolen or whatever, well tough shit.

Now.. Wal-mart has absolutely done amazing things in the automation of stock levels, streamlined distribution systems, etc. For this, I do admire them. I also have to admire in a pervase way the means they can manhandle vendors so freely. They truly do think it is best for their customers I believe.

If you can show me an example of where a Wal-Mart store came to a community and the result of that was a net plus of 85 jobs, then I'll agree with you.

Otherwise you're just making up a hypothetical that doesn't ever happen.

Actually one of the reasons Wal-Mart can sell a shirt for $4 is because they keep labor costs low. Both in terms of cost per hour worked, and hours worked per dollar of goods sold, so there is no gap in my logic.
I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just saying that retailers don't "create jobs".

Also, chill the fuck out. Who the fuck said anything about America vs communist north korea?

I said that Wal-Mart is good for the overall economy several times in this thread. The only problem I have with them is getting tax breaks to bring a store into town and the politicians using the "they're bringing jobs here" argument, because that's bullshit.

They should pay the same taxes as every other retail business in town. :2 cents:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAH

Yeah, our becoming the world's largest economy is only because of a set of ideals. It had nothing to do with Europe and Asia's infrastructure being decimated during World War II while ours was left almost 100% intact, giving us a 15-20 year head start on the post war industrial age.
It has nothing to do with the amount of natural resources we have or the amount of arable land available on our continent.

It's all because of these ideals that you cling to like a religion.

Jesus Christ dude, I can agree that there are good things about capitalism and the free enterprise system, but you worship at the altar like capitalism is Jehovah and you're a witness.
Quit drinking the kool-aid for a minute and realize that there are other possible reasons for our proseperity besides capitalism and that in some cases there are better ways to do things than leave them to the free market.

If you're not willing to do that then you've obviously detached yourself from all logic in order to cling to an ideology, and it's pointless to discuss things with a person who won't respond to reason or logic.

I'm with you on this. I know when I buy something like a T-shirt at walmart it's going to fall apart alot quicker than one from somewhere else, even if they both say fruit of the loom or hanes on them.

With food though, a gallon of milk is a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread is a loaf of bread....which is why I'm shocked by the drastic price difference, because I don't see how the difference is anything other than how much the store chooses to mark things up, or how good of a deal they can negotiate with the supplier.

And with food, that's one area where Wal-Mart isn't the #1 seller in the country. Not all Wal-Mart's sell groceries, and there are other grocery chains that do more volume than they do....but they still just kill them on the retail price.
It's crazy.

The CNBC special on WalMart was highly interesting, all about the company's culture and methods. Very well done, imo.

There's no Walmart near my house, but I do admit to shopping at Costco for my bulk needs like toilet paper, paper towel, olive oil, razor blades, etc. Everything fresh I get from the local farmer's market store and everything else from Thrifty Foods. I'm glad there's no WalMart around here. They just kill all the local business for miles around.

When we shop at Costco we almost always wind up spending $300 or more dollars for things like whole beef tenderloins, king crab legs, huge crates of stuff we probably won't use in a year, etc.

Even shopping at the 3 local supermarkets our bill runs 2-300 every week or 2, but I like to cook and a lot of times I need exotic or expensive spices, weird ingredients, things like that. It all adds up.

Trader Joe's, looking back, I do think we spend less, but Whole Foods is definitely crazy expensive, but very high quality and/or organic products.

Costco is nuts. I am for the most part a vegetarian though (I do eat fish occasionally though), so spending money on fresh meat isn't much of an issue. We do cook a lot around here as my wife is a "foodie", so I hear you about the spices, oils, etc. The best part of Trader Joes is the flash frozen fish. It's not as fresh as something fresh from the butcher, but it's a hell of a lot better than something from a grocer freezer. :thumbsup

Try a comparison though...SHop TJ's once a month, and another retailer the next, and you'd be surprised at the financial comparison! And yes, Whole Foods is ridiculous. I only go there if I need a quick bite, and I grab a veggie wrap from the to go area. Their beers are great as well. :thumbsup

I do the same thing at Sam's. I end up spending more than I otherwise would because I buy things I would never buy if they didn't look like such a "deal".

And they have all these "new products" that I want to try, but you have to buy such a large quantity, and if I don't like it, then it ends up going to waste. (Like the tub of bruschetta I bought last month)

I've definitely become a "shop with a list" guy lately. I won't deviate from the list no matter what, saves alot of $$.

i don't worship anything. i think there is good and bad in all economic and political systems. in our case, i simply believe that hands off, on the whole,.. produces more good than bad. i can't say its free from "bad" and certainly don't believe that.

california... a single US State is the worlds 5th largest economy.. that has nothing to do with asia, hitler or anything else. it has to do with the creation of wealth. the fact 98% of countries in the world lag behind a single state has nothing to do with "head starts" anymore than Africas failure as a continent has anything to do with not being impacted by the war at all.

the only people that are so dismissive of these notions are those who have never created any amount of wealth themselves.

you're not supposed to be shopping at chain stores remember? you're all about the small businessman and against the big chains.

:2 cents::2 cents:

I shop at Safeway and Smart and Final. The times I have went to WalMart the stores are always packed with people. The lines were long too.

I've heard Whole Foods is good. They're also on Fortunes best places to work 2008 I think. My grocery store is Wegmans, made #3 on Fortunes list.
Wal mart? Didnt make top 50.

Great PBS documentary about Walmart that talks about the above scenario
China really needs to thank Walmart

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

Just an FYI....that one state with the world's 5th largest economy has the country's 6th largest tax burden on individuals, and some of the most onerous regulations on business.

To throw a wrench in your "hands off is best" theory.

I never once fucking said that asshole. Quit putting goddamn words in my mother fucking mouth.
You must be confusing me with someone else so would you please learn to read and fucking stop it?

I put in big fucking bold letters in my last post that WAL MART IS GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY and yet you still have this delusion that I'm against big chains.

I don't know what you're fucking problem is, but I've made the exact opposite case throughout this entire thread.

Learn to fucking read dipshit.

i'd rather pay more $ for fresh organic good. in the long run i spend less on doctor visits.

Huh?

What the hell does "authority" have to do with it?

its bankrupt... has been forever. it succeeds in spite of idiotic government policies, taxes and regulations, not because of them.

and as i said.. no path is perfect. i simply said "i believe that" less interference with entrepreneurship does greater good and trying to fix any and all social inequalities at the expense of entrepreneurs.

you're kind of a lunatic.

what made you so angry anyway? you're the one saying Wallmart destroys jobs and communities.... then you are saying Wallmart is good for the economy... then your saying i'm confused and putting words in your mouth.

it can't destroy local communities and be good for the economy as a whole. that doesn't even make sense. you cant have a net good come from what you yourself claim is nothing but bad.