It's either hyper inflation or a deflationary depression. He chose the lesser of two evils.

Wow get a grip. Not sure if you live in the wilds of Wyoming or something but the rest of country has a lot to sell that people want. Seriously, the US is still a powerhouse.

I'm not certain that you made it one, but others did.

The whiners are out as usual.

The democrats are just as bought and paid for as the republicans were - but the republicans now are trying to stab the country in the back again, after mismanaging things for many years.

No, I don't particularly feel that Obama is facing the hard questions yet. The government stimulus is like giving the patient feeds of plasma and oxygen - nobody in washington has the balls to defy the corporations and start actually closing the wounds.

Is he on the right track? You tell me - you've just been in a car wreck, and are bleeding to death. Do you want plasma or not?

We all have to face the fact that we've been living in a fake economy.

If you say so.

We will see.

If it's true, then there's nothing to worry about.

That's real eye-opener.

Bugger gold, go oil. I'd wager we'll see more of a spike in oil in 18-24 months than gold.

Also lol @ using Glenn Beck in anything other than an argument over the benefits of Kool Aid over Dr Pepper to mask the taste of cyanide.

the most insane part about all this is everyone chanting "bush was an asshole" - so "give Obama a chance" and they don't seem to even seem to understand the actual economics and whats going on right now.

instead of suffering through the short term pain letting a bunch of shitty and failed companies die and let the economy adjust which really doesn't take very long, we are creating very real and very serious long term problems.

Glenn Beck is a fag.

why must they fuck up everything all the time?

50 dollars (now worth 2 euro)

Quoted for Truth. Another key truth: Ponzi Schemes are ILLEGAL unless... it is run by the Fed.

:1orglaugh

Time to spend the dollar, before its worth less.

Agreed, I'm sure letting some fail would have a severe short term impact to some, but this notion of throwing money at everything to keep it afloat is going to have a much greater impact in the long run.

By expanding the $ supply our Fed forces people into equities and scares them out of hording cash, which is what's going on right now. Its simply political rat fucking of mice we all are to them.

The most interesting thing is that currency experts (bloomberg) are recommending a stop loss on $/Euro at 1.30 and your gains at 1.45 so they don't even have a solid recommendation. The reality is that Europe is expanding their $ supply as well.

As for gold... traditionally, especially if you're a fan of Ayn Rand you should buy the shit out of it right now. But seriously what can you possibly do with gold? Is it really in demand for something useful? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Applications I mean read up on all those uses for gold and if I'm sitting here with silos full of grain and water and you come to me with some gold plated speaker wires that have debatable superiority I think I'm going to laugh and trade with some guy who can give me something I actually NEED. I think gold as a medium of exchange became useless a century ago. If you want to invest in a commodity, I'd look at one like copper for all these electric engines we're going to be producing, BUT at the same time the run on copper during the building boom inspired new composite water piping that is being phased into building codes all over the world, thus decreasing the demand.

Bottom line is no one tops the USA in production. We work 80+ hour weeks, rarely take vacations. If Obummer wanted to help our country he should have given us a 2x tax credit for every employee we hire. Imagine if you could hire some programmers / desginers / traffic&marketing for $100k a year and get 200k off your taxes (assuming you're balling at that level) it'd encourage vast investment in production and unemployment would be ZERO. Instead we blew all that $ where? who the hell knows. Its honestly fine by me because each time we Ghetto $ into a hole it just erases more of it from the $ supply. IN reality do anyone think after our dip shit government spends a trillion $ we'll have anything to show for it??? not a god damn thing, hold your $ but rather invest in production if you can find something that sells regardless of the economy. (toilet paper? efficiency products? etc)

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh right....

Because in the real world you can only fuck up so much, before someone comes and take your shit or you away. We call those someone "the state".

Now what happens when the state fucks up? Who will come and take their shit or them away?

Or as the old saying goes "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" - Who will guard the guards?

Shit i fucked again didn't do reserve before this drop.

You are looking at it all wrong. Gold has been valued for literally thousands of years. Gold is not a commodity like copper. It is a form of money.

That is only true if this economic crisis has an Mad Max type of outcome. If that is how things end up then you are absolutely right. I do not think we heading back to the stone age...

If that were true gold would not be nearly $1,000 an ounce right now and central banks and governments around the world would not still be hording it.

Yes, the US has a much more productive work force than Western and Central Europe. We also have an increasing birthrate while Europe has a decreasing birthrate. We are also not taxed at such obscene levels as most Europeans.

I think the next bubble they are going to try to blow is carbon trading and other similar "green" initiatives. We'll see if they are successful...

The next bubble is already in the making - its the state bubble!

i think this is something Americans just can't understand. They've never seen actual financial crisis. Actual crisis where they wake up one day and their currency is worthless. I lived through the transition in Russia. The Soviet Union was so backwards that in spite of all its efforts to make everything fair and equal for all and reach the final goal of communism... they had in fact created the worlds largest commodities exchange where everyone bartered goods and services rather than using cash. After the Soviet Union crashed.. there was basically no legal system, no sensible tax law, no functioning banking system, no local and regional government etc etc etc to help an economy run and protect peoples rights and property. In spite of that, a "black economy" quickly grew and outgrew the white economy. Just as people were starting to trust banks, just as retail banking was being developed, Yeltsin devalued the Ruble the DAY after saying he wouldn't. I had a shitload of money in a Russian bank at the time. No way to get it out. THEN they started yanking the licenses of 1000s of banks and shutting them down for money laundering etc with clients losing their money or being forced to transfer DOLLARS to Sberbank (state bank) which had to be deposited in Rubles at a massively discounted exchange rate.

What i mean is that i've personally seen a lot of shit go totally sideways in an economy that are MANY TIMES more devastating than the consequences of letting these fucked up companies die. And guess what? against all odds, a free market rebounds quickly and strongly. The idea that we need to print trillions of dollars we don't have, spend more money than any country ever has in the history of the planet to solve the very problem of irresponsible spending and irresponsible borrowing is literally the height of insanity.

Step back... the weak die.. let the strong survive and let the new "Citi Banks" or "AIG's" grow from the ashes.


but really.. it doesn't matter. we can't even agree as a nation or world to stop a genocide... much less on how to deal with financial crisis. we're really doomed to fail. maybe not this time, but eventually. Its the nature of man to fuck up a good thing and to stray from what works and to fix what isn't broken until it's finally broken for good.

EXACTLY... we have dealt with the housing bubble by creating a Government Bubble. fucking retarded.

True. I think it will be both (they are quite connected anyways)...

I made a bit over $1k yesterday on a short trade eur/usd and I traded with $200 lol, so 5x the money in one day. I still don't like that the $ is dropping though, it has dropped over 10% in a week to the swedish currency :(

You have to say this was so weird that we stepped in. Not being partisan but it was even weirder that it was Republicans who did it.

Now that we have saved the insurers of all of these bad loans can banks go back to being banks? Citi and AIG were the two biggest insurers.

Um one Republican campaigned just on that issue. To bad no one has been listening.

well... lets keep it in perspective.. there was the initial failing of AIG which stunned everyone. It was only well after that the actual scope of the problem became clear that everyone decided that if we keep tossing more money at EVERYTHING, lifes problems will just melt away. I can understand and even forgive an initial of helping a company like this in its situation, thinking that could stem the bulk of the problems. Once the Citibanks etc start coming forward, its time to come to grips with the fact that you can't save everyone that got into trouble.

this issue isn't a partisan issue. both sides are equally at fault.. but trying to save a few companies thinking that could stem the potential tide of massive financial woes, is a bit different than actually doing that, watching the money get wasted/deposited/sat on and not get put to use, watching company after company after company say they need billions too... then trying to give it to them in ADDITION to trying to print and spend over 1 Trillion dollars to "stimulate the economy"




A BASIC FACT OF ECONOMICS 101 - you can't spend yourself to success. if we could, we would just be printing and spending money all the time.

forget about the dollar... let's go back to trading! I have 6 eggs and a chicken. Who gives me some content in exchange? :)

That Ron Paul Video above should be required viewing for every person on the planet and it should be the new oath of office for every politician in this country.

:2 cents: