Can't you just leave this board? You're such a dork. Like a really big time dork.

If they are charging $15,000 dollars/month, obviously there are sponsors out there willing to pay it. If nobody is buying porn how can the sponsors afford it?

I think it's impossible for anyone to truly know... all we have is theories. Lots of theories. Yearly conversions I don't think are really an accurate way to track how things are going... a lot of things can easily throw off conversions. But how do we track? I haven't the slightest idea. Money is really my only guess... but how do we judge that? And do we add an inflation to the money that should be earned yearly based on real economic inflation and also the inflation of Internet users (more people sign on to the Internet every year, though there will be a cap.)

And then how do you figure in competition to the grand scheme of things? Yes, Sponsor A does not make the same money they made in 2002... is that because of competition or is that because of disappearing sales? Are those sales simply going to other pay sites or are they totally disappearing? How can we even monitor that?

Even today... with things as "bad" as they are... new sites and new sponsors are popping up all of the time whereas only five or six years ago there was a "core group" of sponsors.

I disagree most popular tubes have such a huge amount of content you can find a good selection of any niche. Even midget :thumbsup

Another question is this... all of these "friends" that we have that get porn off of these tube sites... did we actually lose a buyer or is it just a looky-loo? This "friend" may claim that he would typically buy porn... but most people also claim they are financially stable when they really are not.

I'm not saying that free porn and tubes don't play their part in things... I'm just saying blaming them for everything doesn't really get us anywhere. For years people have blamed shady billing tactics, they have blamed MGP galleries, they have blamed free sites... now we have the tubes to blame. What's the answer? I haven't the slightest clue...

That's not accurate. 5 years ago I was promoting over 400 sponsors in stats remote...all adult. I promote more now of course. But my tgp's have lost all their traffic to tube sites. And EVERYBODY now uses torrents to download porn for free.

The big mega site companies are really getting hit hard. And in this case their very size is hurting them. Nobody is really in charge that understands the game, and so their stuff is being used by torrents and illegit tubes to make money via pre-paid spots.

I had a plumber over last week to replace the thermostat on my gas water heater. He asked me what I did for a living. I told him I was in the internet porn business.

He asked me how I could possibly be making a living at it anymore. I said "why would you say that?"

He told me that everybody knows you don't have to pay for porn anymore, it's all free for download on the torrents.

I realized then that if a plumber working on my hot water heater thinks that...then the whole world thinks it.

Nobody wants to pay for something that they can get for free. Why would they? So it's very difficult to market something....no matter what or how you do it.

The only guys making out like bandits on a torrent site are the dating and cam sites. And of course, as I discovered last night while googling up Claudia-Marie....the torrent sites are now charging money (just like a paysite) to download stolen content! No, I didn't say "upload", I said DOWNLOAD.

And they are also using keywords that they don't have the movies for at all to entice the surfer to pay their join fee. I know this because I found Claudia-Marie movies listed at a torrent site that gave you a "download' button. But when you click the button you go to a join page. Then once I paid to be able to check my content....guess what? They didn't even have my movies! They listed them in the free area so anybody using a search engine to look for her would see them as a potential torrent listing.

I spoke to Eric at Removeyourcontent.com about that and he said that "yes" that is becoming prevalent now with torrent sites as they are using deceptive b.s. to get the surfer to pay when they don't actually have that content (in my case RYC had already removed it)

So, if you were into midgets you would be satisfied with the 13 low quality videos on that link you posted, some of which have been up for more than a year? I doubt it.

For someone who is into midgets, that might be his fix for a day, or week. What is he going to do after that.

I did a search for something as easy as "pussy masturbation". Of the 100 videos that pop up, half of them are from sponsors like Nubiles.

The link you posted actually proves my point.

scary for who? Do your job and sell porn, if you suck at it you'll fail

A lot, if not most ISPs throttle torrent traffic. If you are looking for a quick download, you can't just go to a torrent site and download a 2 GB file. In my area, all the major ISPs throttle torrent traffic in peak hours. If you download a file today, you might get it tomorrow. If somebody is out surfing for porn on a friday night, he is not going to wait till the next day to get his movie. And then find a time to be alone to watch it.

Have Tubes and Torrents affected traffic? Sure. But, every day there is so much porn being produced. SOMEBODY is buying it. If everybody was getting porn for free, how do porn sites have the money to keep shooting fresh content? Nobody is working for free.

Next time ask him how much he has paid for porn memberships before. I'll tell you his answer: $0


You know a thread will go downhill as soon as uber moron Robbie comes in with his usual nonsense.

Don't bother. Robbie is one of the biggest idiots on this board. He's totally clueless about this stuff.

He just got lucky with that disgusting content of his. If it wasn't for that he wouldn't be able to make 5 bucks a day on the net.

But for some reason he feels like he's part of this webmaster thing and knows everything about it. Really sad actually.

Most porn movie files are more like a couple hundred megs not gigs. And I can tell you how many of the big companies are still shooting fresh content...they do it the same way I still make money with them...RECURRING BILLING. But new sales? Not so much. And the rebills die away every day.

And I don't think that the hundreds of millions of people downloading from torrents are all that worried about download time. They are strictly in it for FREE stuff. If that was my goal, I wouldn't worry about download time. I'd just do what I did back 10 years ago on dial up....Start a download in the morning and walk away and do other things in life. Come back a few hours later and your download is there.

My plumber that I used as an example...He works all day long driving to people's houses and repairing the plumbing. He could start all his downloads at 6 a.m. when he leaves for work and have them all waiting for him that evening.

Most of them would not buy, some would. The 99 guys that wouldn't buy anyway aren't the problem, the one guy that would is. That guy gets the same free stuff the others do, and as soon as free sites meet his demands, he turns from a buyer into a non-buyer.

All these things play a part. That's why the drop in conversions over the years is so interesting.

Back when CJs and linklists were king, if you wanted easy, quick access to porn pics, you pretty much needed a membership.

The rise of fairly clean TGPs meant that easy, quick access to pics became free. So, the people who wanted that stopped being buyers. Those who wanted vids or full sets of pics still needed to buy.

The rise of MGPs meant that easy, quick access to short vids became free. So, the people who just needed that stopped being buyers. Those who wanted full vids or full sets of pics still needed to buy.

And now, the current situation:

The rise of tubes means that easy, quick access to full scenes is now free. Only those who want high quality need to buy.

The rise of filesharing sites means that high quality scenes are now free. Only those who want ease of use and fast, unlimited downloads need to buy.

The rise of torrent sites means that high quality, unlimited downloads are now free. Only those without technical knowledge and those who want ease of need to buy.

So, essentially, only those without technical knowledge, who want high quality, and aren't willing to put up with the hassle of tube sites or filesharing forums need to buy. Basically, the pool of people with a reason to buy has lost much of its size.

Once tube sites start providing higher quality, conversion rates will go down even further. At some point in the future, only very specific fetishes, extremely exclusive content and extremely high quality content will have a selling point, which will appeal to a very limited audience.

Compare it to a store giving everything away for free next to a Walmart. At first, they only give away breathmints, but every week, they add a new product to their inventory. After a while, the Walmart will be in trouble. Because while free breathmints won't dissuade people from buying pizzas, free sandwiches will dissuade some, and free pizzas will dissuade most.

Redtube Daily

wordtracker - 74397
Google - 92,996
Yahoo - 26,709
MSM - 11,606
Overall Daily - 131,211

:Oh crap

it is still weird that people go to google and type in anything + anything.com. direct navigation is a myth...

its not good

I've watched people do that firsthand and it totally baffles me. I even asked them why and they didn't really have an answer... yet they kept doing it.

I know I don't do that. I just type what I'm looking for period. And then when I'm looking to find my content out there...I just start looking through the pages. I usually stop at page 3 or 4 since that's about as far as I care to look.

I have however typed in multiple words like this: "puma swede torrent" And I could see how and why surfers looking to jerk off to a particular girl for free would do that. Matter of fact, that search term brings up almost a half million results. :(

Look in the sig of the guy who started this thread. According to him, he has BangBros converting at close to 1:1000. I think that almost every scene ever produced by bangbros is out there on every tube site and every torrent site, multiple times. But, they are still converting and people are buying.

What does that say?

That his sig is not factual? EDIT: I misread...I thought for a minute you wrote 1:100 My bad. :)

Are you trying to be a total fucking idiot on purpose or are you really just this fucking stupid? It's so hard to believe you can be this stupid.

OK, but how about this, I have seen Banbros banners running on some of these very torrent sites where they have free porn to download. If what you are saying is true, why would companies like Bangbros not be doing everything in their power to shut down these torrent sites? Instead they are signing them up as affiliates???

I am here for serious business discussion, you're here to troll and call people names.
You should leave. Why don't you call Sly or Libertine dorks, they typed much longer replies?

anyway,

bingo

you hit the nail on the head. The only thing I am not so sure are torrents/file-sharing sites. A lot of people still don't have the tech knowledge and they don't use them (or they're afraid to catch some malware).

Tubes reached the size never seen by TGP's before. That's the default way for people to find their porn nowadays. And it happens to be 100% free and satysfying the needs of a huge segment of those who used to be regular buyers before.

anyway, not seeing much room for improvement for the whole industry.
Diversification is the key, saving a good part of what you earn, moving to mainstream of offline businesses. Unless you're one of those who are growing 50% every year like Barefootsies :winkwink:

Btw, I understand that your TGP traffic has dropped. But, I think that has more to do with the death of TGPs, and not the death of people buying porn.

Once again give it up. The guy suffered brain damage or something. Something blocks his brain from making sense. He's stuck in ignorant idiot mode.

These tubes do TONS of sales to adult sites. That's a fact. Robbie just doesn't want to know it. He ignores it because it will make him and his last 500 tube posts look like the fucking idiot he is.

Who's talking about the length of a reply? I called you a dork because you are one, dork. Even if you post 1 word you're still a dork.

And what makes you think mainstream is any easier? There are people on mainstream boards complaining just as loudly that their sales are dropping. If you understand google and understand how to drive traffic, you can make it in mainstream or in porn. Focus in some niches and go after them. I have a few sponsors that are doing better for me than others. So, I am going to after them by launching sites that target to those surfers.

Offline is even harder. What are you going to do? The investments are much more. Here you can buy a domain and hosting for less than 10 bucks and test out your concept. In offline business you could sink tens of thousands before realizing you have a dud.

That is the truth. :) Online is the easiest way to make money with the least amount of overhead.

How did you find this out?

Time to move our ass to dating/webcam and some micro niches.

I watched my stepmother do it once... Basically she has her homepage set to Google, and Google automatically grabs focus of the cursor and puts into the search box, so when she opens a new browser window, she looks down at the keyboard and starts typing followed by hitting enter, not realizing that the cursor is in the search box. By the time the search results are up there she realized what she did, but she just shrugged it off and clicked the first result.

Hey none of you guys want to actually do anything..

You and your friends who run this industry have NO PROBLEM supporting them, paying their bills, making them rich.

It's because xxxdumbass always likes to blame other people. It's never his fault.

hey! leave him alone... not too long after he was posting pics of his new 2mil home, expensive cars and rock star parties... a single google update started a downward death spiral for him and his main site full of redundant linking, spammy internal/external linking and text that read like it was written by a retarded monkey.

his railing against tubes is an expression of anxiety regarding his own failure to maintain what he had in the face of the bills he has to pay. using agressive methods to do well in the SERP's which ultimately failed because like almost all people who flirt with SEO, he failed to ask the most obvious question "will google see this as the best result for this phrase"



tubes....


before it was...


usenet
napster
free porn forums
spam
popups/exits
american express pulling out
google images
double billing
torrents

blah blah blah.,....

and about 10,000 other things that "this time are different" which are "the reason conversions are horrible"

funny how no one seems to mention the fact that there was a massive market for porn from day one, with relatively small competition and a flood of people coming online and at the same time getting used to using credit cards online over a period of a few years. now, they "get it" - they've joined sites. they've been tricked into joining everyone's 1998 cookie cutter bullshit site... you hid the cancel link... you kept spamming them wiht your other bullshit... you treated them like assholes because afterall... the mantra since 1996 has been "surfers are idiots"

now they aren't idiots.

now they have broadband

now they are all wise to the fact that you don't respect them

you've spent years training them to search for "free" - how dumb are you? you already set the value on what you offer - $0.00

oh.... but now "tube sites" are to blame for the worlds porn problems?

really?

can't wait to see what the next 10, life ending, porn is dead, "this time its different" excuses will be in the future.

the business matured and evolved.

customers matured and evolved.

pornographers are largely immature and dysfunctional jackasses.

don't blame the consumer for your failures.

there is not a single thing stopping anyone from shooting high quality, exclusive content and protecting it... and generating sales.... well... except your own dumb excuses about why "this time its different" that is.

Well now you are selling QUALITY. Anyone that think tubes offer quality content is retarded. I have 10 year old VHS tapes that look better than what tubes put up. 400 kbps streams? please. Now of course many guys are cool with that and can jack off to that. Well that's not your customer base anymore. You want the guy who is thinking "Hey I really like this scene but it's too crappy looking" or the guy who thinks "these damn tube sites can't organize their content. I can't find what I am looking for. Maybe there's a place that has EASILY accessible content"

Over 25% of the top 20 searches are for illegal tube sites. I guess there is more money in ripping everyone else off than shooting and updating every day for your members. I need to find a new line of work.

1 google 252704
2 myspace 207957
3 sex 202995
4 facebook 201813
5 youtube 198020
6 yahoo 195632
7 ebay 164731
8 craigslist 159648
9 red tube 140474 - *** illegal tube ***
10 yahoo.com 115997
11 you tube 104962
12 boobs 102415
13 tube8 97468 - *** illegal tube ***
14 redtube.com 91521 - *** illegal tube ***
15 hotmail 89683
16 mapquest 89682
17 myspace.com 85067
18 youporn.com 83986 - *** illegal tube ***
19 youporn 83146 - *** illegal tube ***
20 xtube - *** illegal tube ***

I google tube8 everytime I jerk off. I don't want it in the address bar history.

yeah.. that's also kinda funny. i have access to members areas of tons of sites/networks, and i would hardly say any tube site is offering "high quality videos"

it says he would be making more sales and at a better conversion ratio if tube and torrent sites weren't there. that must be clear to everyone surely. libertines post summed it up very well.