Some people just don't learn the History. In the culmination of so-called Caribbean Crisis, the USA were ready to nuke Cuba in a same time as USSR was preparing to nuke Turkey to destroy the US Saturns located there. Both countries (Cuba and Turkey) were used just like token coins by both military superpowers.

Please read below:

Yes, the world is not always fair, but if you don't have anyone ready to die for you, you'll never win an armed conflict.

The only problem is that vast majority people these days don't really remember any armed conflict, so they're comfortably dumb and whine about peace while the sons of the big Ajjatolah Chomejni are trying to get THEIR nuke to have a leash on those christian dogs.

Will they ask you if you're a pacifist before they kill you? I doubt so.

I don't think it works like this.

Where's the absolute morality, where are the national interests now?

Do you want your people dead now, or later?

if anyone wants to contribute feel free to do it, discussion is always about two sides

I'm sorry, what the fuck is unwearable?

Is that a rhetorical question?

how do you feel about the level of anti american sentiment and ignorance here in the US?

sorry to break it to you but america is NOT the leader of the world anymore

There is resentment in Europe against the government of the US because it making decisions against our interests. Our leaders kiss the ass of the US. Europe is full of US military bases.

As for protests, there has been a long history of protest...

Supporting the Republic in the spanish civil war

Against fascism

Against the US war in Vietnam

Against South Africa

For civil rights in the US, Free the Black Panthers etc

Against the war in Iraq

Now against a rocket system which we are told is against Iran. but even you say that is a lie and it is against Russia.

The record shows the protesters to have been on the right side, and you are the ignorant one, in spite of your studies.

how did iran and north korea get all these nuclear 'secrets' anyway?

Long live America.

Yes, there's a long history of protest and also a history of failure, inaction and incompetence in the recent history:

there were extremely tangible interests in the game

Thank you for enabeling opening of the Eastern front by giving away Czechoslovakia in Munich 1938 - complete political incompetence, and what for a protest was that?

In 1938 there was a delegation from Britain in the Third Reich, where Goring assured them no war conflict is planned

A lot of French and European interests in general were threatened in Vietnam, and a lot of production was lost, so again who risked what in Vietnam, and what was the anti American hysteria about?

Were there any interests from the side of Europe, yes, but definitely not by letting Vietnam become communistic.

I don't know much about apartheid, its history, but what I assume or from what I read, it was a referendum in 1992, made amongst the white voters, who were the only ones that had the right to vote, that enabled the transition to the full democracy, I'll have to dig for the motivation to do this someday

And what?

US is a sovereign state, will you wave a fist on North Korea in Paris, wow, incredible!

The whole question of racial equality seems to be easier these days than it was, Kennedy got spitted on in certain southern states while campaigning for 1964, before the unfortunate Dallas events, yet those states were also a part of US!

This was a massive failure, but again, the main "protest" there is the unwillingness to offer armed support even when there is practical evacuation of the forces and their transition to Afghanistan

And who cares, who cared before 1989, who was the enemy?

You had Pershings in Western Germany and it wasn't bad? Was it?

Were you afraid back then, that the Soviets will burn your ass?

Was it all right back then to care about security?

Is it not in vogue now?

Are we comfortably dumb already?

Doesn't history speak a clear language?

Have we reached the world peace?

You're only getting emotional and show no real facts, please define "ignorance"

I don't care about spoiled kids protesting in the streets, its their right to do so, they wouldn't do anything worthwhile on Sunday afternoon anyway.

yet I sure care about the common sense, action and collective interests

That's correct

Exactly, a great friend of mine was a part of elite forces over there for three years, and the whole OSN thing did more harm than good, as they only gave people a fake hope, and were restricted by bullshit bureaucratics to practically watch the genocide.

I recommend this movie in its uncut / uncensored version:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119873/

As it's probably the best that was made about the conflict and hit the TV screens.

Yet most of the morons here can't let America live, as they need to feel important and praise their "cultural superiority" complex, unfortunately, the more they do so, the more they are only manifesting mere ignorance and cowardness.

The Gaucho has spoken.

Soviet Union or Russia never had any interest to equip any of these countries with nuclear weapons

Soviet/ Russian Chinese relations are far from being good since the take over in China in 1949, escalated in the Ussuri conflict, when Soviet Union made three divisions of the Chinese army practically disappear from the face of Earth - something not spoken about..

Iraq was active in their nuclear program, they say it was a coincidence this was uncovered during the Desert Storm operation and destroyed.

It takes a lot of time to distill the plutonium so you can apply it for the chain reaction that's required too work with a fully functional atom bomb, the way Iraq used to do so (I guess 8 years if I remember well). The development was never finished.

Interesting question worth some research though.

India, Pakistan, North Korea, Iran

Whole lot of shaking going on in this region

who cares :)

725 views so far

and it's exactly this comfortably dumb "who cares" attitude that helps the overall idiocy grow.

Btw. comparing Bush with Klaus,

no matter how one didn't ever had any qualifications to do his job

and the other one is almost "overqualified", extremely educated, while dealing with his narcism an ego on almost daily basis

is like comparing average intelligent monkey with Albert Einstein turned pathological exhibitionist.

They say the nuclear program was supported by the West until the great Islamic revolution in 1979, which is quite logical.

They say that Pakistan could have been a major factor in helping fasten up the nuclear development in Iran.

The information, that I was able to check on the web are mainly unclear and incomplete, this would require more time, effort and insight of someone competent.

Here's something interesting:

?Israel wants to know that if its forces were given the green light they could strike at Iran in a matter of days, even hours. They are making preparations on every level for this eventuality. The message to Iran is that the threat is not just words,? one senior defence official told The Times.

Officials believe that Israel could be required to hit more than a dozen targets, including moving convoys. The sites include Natanz, where thousands of centrifuges produce enriched uranium; Esfahan, where 250 tonnes of gas is stored in tunnels; and Arak, where a heavy water reactor produces plutonium.

The distance from Israel to at least one of the sites is more than 870 miles, a distance that the Israeli force practised covering in a training exercise last year that involved F15 and F16 jets, helicopters and refuelling tankers.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6115903.ece

I would dare to say that Israel initiating the conflict instead of NATO is a rather possible scenario.

Well, there's no doubt that the Bush administration "helped" this a big deal.

Unfortunately, having a fail at steering wheel for 8 years, having all the core principles pissed on won't help any nation with its self confidence.

I hope Barack will be able to at least partially restore unity, faith and confidence, as it's now more important than ever.
He's very well qualified from the political skills point of view, he should be able to win even those young intellectually styled voters.

Unfortunately, he became a president at the time, when global capitalism went practically bankrupt.

He now is looked upon as a savior, that is supposed to fix everything, that is now ruined, due to the recent concentration of power in the private banking system, especially from Reagan's times till now.

The bubble burst, the real money disappeared and only virtual remained, the party is over.

That's a challenge that is very, very hardly solvable, unless you turn very radical in some ways.

And radical solutions with long term effect will never win over the general / short term thinking population.

Quoted for truth.

I can make a thread called "dumbest thread ever" and bump it a few times a week as you do. Believe me - it will get much more views than yours :2 cents:

Once again: who really cares?

If you look at our history this what we did in the US. The states were not homogenous. Europe seems on the right track with the EU. Bigger is better and hopefully someday we will have one world.

There was a good point made earlier that since we export our culture to the world that obviously other coutries know more about us then we know about them.

Thanks for the bump.

It's very hard to find a parallel.

If I remember well, there were mainly three branches of interest in Northern America:

The British empire

France

The kingdom of Spain

And the extremely crucial steps in order to create a new, united country, were.

Step by step, to eliminate ALL these particular national interests.

That's already a premise you can build on, and that's a premise that's impossible to realize in the EU.

That is correct, unfortunately the culture, as displayed, is not always too compatible with the mindset of its audience and might even stimulate aversion (talking about Jerry Springer for example :)).

And not only you :) They call everyone :) Just remember which army has saved Prague from total destruction in 1945 (it was undermined by retreating Nazi if btw)?

As about the US Army, so this is a quote from wikipedia (I really don't like that site, but I've quoted it here as an exception):

--------------------------------------
Second World War
Main article: Occupation of Czechoslovakia
...
In 1942, Prague was witness to the assassination of one of the most powerful men in Nazi Germany - Reinhard Heydrich (during Operation Anthropoid). Hitler ordered bloody reprisals. At the end of the war Prague suffered several bombing raids by the U.S. Air Force. Over 1000 people were killed and hundreds of buildings, factories and historical landmarks were destroyed (however the damage was small compared to the total destruction of many other cities in that time). Once it was certain that the outcome of the war was decided and Germany would surrender to the allies, Prague revolted against the Nazi occupants on 5 May 1945 two days before Germany capitulated, on May 7. Four days later the Soviet army entered the city. The majority of German population either fled or was expelled in the aftermath of the war.
--------------------------------------

Oh yes Czech people are so angry at Russians because of Soviet tanks in Prague on August 1968 (actually those were not only Russian tanks...), and they don't ever remember who saved their beautiful city in 1945, but they are soooooooooooooooo thankful to the US army for its bombing raids and 1000 killed people. Actually who count those Czechs if they were killed by an old good friend :)

:2 cents:

CarlosTheGaucho, learn history man and stop being such an anti-Czech vassal looking for the stronger guy in the block to kiss his ass. Yesterday it was Ivan, today it's John, tomorrow it will be Chan or Mao, right? :winkwink:

Why are you even continue to talk more bile in this thread?

What are you actually asking?

What is your point?

Did you even read what I wrote before?

Or you just don't have anything to say and starting to get emotional behind the keyboard?

Ok once again:

1) Russia and the rest of RVHP countries would most likely be, from the economical / industrial point of view, a better choice than the west after 1989.

2) Czechoslovakia was a technological center that supplied many countries such as Lybia, Egypt, Mongolia, certain parts of Soviet Union with know how and technology, a premise that could have been built on after 1989.

3) Instead of continuing the course, the country chose the western sociopolitical system, which practically destroyed the key industries and turned former Czechoslovakia into another outsourced center for western multi national corporations, with cheaper and qualified workforce.

4) Czechoslovakia made their decision, and should be responsible for this.

Responsibility is the key word, because everyone here is only capable of shouting, instead of thinking, or doing.

Btw. war is not led to preserve lives if those who are fighting, war is led to preserve the lives of those, who will come after them, war is led to win.

so..........are you complaining because you'd prefer to be speaking german right now or russian?

because whatever little shitstain country you're from, the only reason it still exists is because of the trillions of dollars the US has spent protecting you. :winkwink:

1) I'm not complaining at all;
2) yes, I speak Russian :)

You are wrong sir, it's a biggest country in the world :)

For some reason I don't think so :1orglaugh

Because I have some free time right now, and because I love to make fun of ass-kissers. Is than a good explanation? :pimp

And since when is stating a legitimate and sensible opinion called ass kissing?

I see, strong words are more important than ideas, keep it up!

If you don't have anything to say, start to shout.

oh, you're russian?

well, that explains your nonsense about america. how are the bread lines?
hey! did you see the latest episode of "happy days" that Ron Howard is gonna be big some day.

Yes of course. You are against the guys who are voting to protect your country. As I told you before: the USA will build a part of their third position area in Czech republic to use it as a condom, then Russia will target it's nukes to that condom in order to destroy it in case of any military conflict which is still very possible. So you are against those guys, you are against Czech Republic and your are ready to be a condom which will be used by two "old lovers": the USA and Russia. If this is not an ass kissing, so I have no idea what is a real ass kissing then :)

The most funny thing, that you (your people) will not be asked by your government if you want to be a target for Russian nukes or not, because your government will do everything that will be said by a big boss. I.e. the fate of question in in hands of the USA and Russia, but not in hands of Czech people which is ignored by its own government. :2 cents:

BTW, I still have some free time so please feel free to ask :)

lol sorry, but i don't talk about america here (either canada, the usa, venezuela, mexico or brazil). We are talking about so called "anti-american moods" in czechia :winkwink:

By not respecting NATO? Will they fight with bare hands?

Will a state with an army of approx 100 000 men be able to defend itself without NATO?

Explain please.

And what?

What do you even know about the radar? What is the purpose of this gadget? Tell me



You're obviously obsessed with the term "ass kissing",

Answer me a very simple question, did Soviet Union ever attacked US?

By not obeying the NATO, Czech Republic will do more harm than if it does.

But you will never explain it to short term thinkers, who don't see far enough to think twice, before they discuss.

This is a question of global security, and countries that do NOT reflect the questions of global security are obviously NOT contributing to the global security.

Excuse me, in this case I find the pro NATO approach of the Czech government extremely pragmatic.

Another simple question:

Do you think the questions of global security these days, with at least three extreme regimes (Pakistan, Iran, North Korea) are possessing nuclear weapons, should be taken lightly?

Btw. consider me off GFY until tomorrow.

CarlosTheGaucho,
US have 480(!) nuclear weapons in Europe against Ben Laden, Iran and North Korea

http://img.flexcom.ru/2005/02/09/bimg95746.jpg

do you need more in your country?

can't sleep without missles?

Get a clue. The 3dr position area has nothing to do with NATO. It's a US project, and your country is not obliged to become a target.

Against whom? Your country has no useful resources to be conquered. However, in case of global war, no one army will be able to protect Czechia against nukes if it will decide to be a part of the US 3dr position area.

Explained above.

No one knows it's real purposes because they are secret. But I know 2 things (just because they are not secret):
1) it's a part of anti-missile 3dr position area;
2) it will be able "cover" at least all the European part of Russia what will be considered as a threat by ANY country.

Nope, I just love to give straight names, because I'm not a politician :)

No. But there were many indirect war conflicts between the USA and USSR. Course both countries were smart enough to use OTHER TERRITORIES to play their war games. Think about it! :pimp

How is it related to your radar? :1orglaugh Do you know where Pakistan, Iran and North Korea are? Do you know that only Russia has the most closer radar systems in those regions? Do you know what Russia suggested the USA to use their radar systems together?

Once again: get a clue man, really :)

I think that any country or person that does not like another country or person should just stop dealing with them. Dont buy from them in any form, dont take money from them, dont talk to them, fuck dont even look in their direction. Pretend the other never existed.

Do you like Communist China? Maybe you are a communist by yourself? :winkwink: Sorry but I won't believe you will stop using their products :) You know, we all living in a global world now. That's a fact you and me are unable change :)

As about me, I never told that I don't like the USA. I have a lot of good buddies there. All this thread is about something different. Find some time to read it. :2 cents:

Even when other person waves before you a knife too? how many Russian nuclear weapon against Caribian Pirates you see in Central\South America?

and who give a shit?!

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh ...

I forgot, you know better!

I now I see! Great!

And what is the point of this?

try to asnwer at least one of my questions, maybe we'll get to some conclusion afterwards.

I'm lost

That is correct, for the first time I agree with you, and for the first time you've put in something more or less relevant - NO ONE KNOWS.


You're mainly wasting internet space as I see

You didn't understand my question, could it be, hypothetically, that

And only hypothetically, that there never happened any direct armed conflict due to the cooperation, unity inside both challenging parties, cooperation, unity in the development of army, information tracking mechanism etc.

Let's ask a real question, what is your point for being in this discussion, what are you trying to advocate?

You have "fun", I see, plenty of people have "fun". that's great, I'm happy for you and for anyone else, but what are you trying to advocate?


I forgot that you are the undisputed king troll of central intelligence issues worldwide, sorry.


I don't think I need to get any more clue, you've so enlightened me already that I feel totally devastated.

Thanks GFY for the constant oposition of moronism on any topic in the world!

Again, this is not a question of any "country", this is a question of collective interest.

Most people don't give a shit about anything with more relevance, than if they have enough money to feed their dog and if they'll pay the rent next month, you're correct.

You're right, even when I read my posts after those 3 minutes, I found some of the points not particularly clear, which usually causes replies that could have been prevented.

As interesting as this sounds, this would most likely collapse facing local rules / taxes etc.

Just for illustration - you have 200 - 300 pct. tax on new cars in Denmark (most extreme case), you have incredibly expensive cars here, even if you import a car from US that would be possible to afford locally with gas costing twice as much, including the 7 000 - 8 000 USD shipping / insurance fee, it usually is notably cheaper than buying it locally.

As I told you in my previous posts, the US government doesn't care on what you think. Most of Americans even have no idea where your country is and how to spell its name correctly. I said that no one will listen you if you agree or not agree to put the US missile shield in YOUR yard.

Read this: Obama scraps Bush-era missile defense for new plan.

As I said, the big guys (the USA and Russia) will settle the things as they need and will do everything as they want (this is called "American democracy" BTW). The one should be a complete idiot to believe that the USA really cares (even a little bit) about your country or about your people ("pro-american" or "anti-american" - doesn't matter). Should I quote the post I did half or a year ago right in this thread?

So who was right?

P.S. Some people are sooooooooo confiding and naive... :disgust




Hope you've got the lesson.

The United States is unusual among the industrial democracies in the rigidity of the system of ideological control - "indoctrination," we might say - exercised through the mass media.
Noam Chomsky

About America from an American