No, not at all... I have read this thread over, I haven't seen ANY proof, not even a tiny bit of proof, that it was ONLY terrorists that did this.

But like millions and millions of others, even before you watch another video or read an article... you know the story you were being told was bullshit from day one.

We probably aren't ever going to get real proof, but without question far to many things simply don't add up. And based on real facts that our Gov really has attacked it's own people and has made plans to do it before......

You would be a damn fool not to think our Gov didn't have a hand in this.

Maybe you will be the one to finally address this question.

When you say *The Government* are you talking about the republicans or the democrats? The government is a group of people. Not some nameless entity. Once we determine which party would be behind this,then naming names should get easier.

At the Government level, parties are bullshit. They are all best friends that work together and hire dirty hookers on our tax money.

Does that mean you think it was former Governor Spitzer of NewYork that was behind it?
All this boogieman talk about *THE GOVERNMENT* is nothing but a copout. Who in the government? What elected or appointed officials were behind this alleged conspiracy.

Oh this is your attempt to be cleaver?.... It Failed..

It's a fairly simple question. You conspiracy people all toss around the term THE GOVERNMENT... Who in the government is behind it. Name names. What's so clever about that?

Hershie,

Discussions on a subjects such as 9/11 can easily turn into ONLINE arguments because there are so many opionions that people feel very strongly about. There's no way that I (or anyone else here) would judge someone just because disagree with their opion of the true events of 9/11. And no matter what, it DEFINATELY would have no influence on my choice of whether to do business with them or not.

Come on. These are just BBS FIGHTS. Most everyone in this thread will still get together for beers at any trade show, and leave all of the online "drama" (especially 9/11 drama!) where it belongs, online.

Greg and I get into the 9/11 discussion at least 2-3 times a month. While we fail to agree on many aspects of that horrible day, the sparring we do challenges us to consider alternatives and ideas. (Aliens did it!). No matter what though, the discussions is always just that, a discussion. My opinion of the man, his smarts and business sense wouldn't change no matter how much his ideas

It's unfortunate that you select business partners based on opinions on subjects that have nothing at all to do with business. I hope it works for you.

Best regards,

You do know that Hitler burned down the german government building and blamed the communists in order to turn Germany into a police state (dictatorship) right?

Out clever me then...answer the question. Or any of you conspiracy people,step in.

If you are Americans,you spent the last 2 years being bombarded by politicians.

Who is THE GOVERNMENT is behind this vast conspiracy.

why do you need specific names? the government said Al-Qaeda was responsible for the attack. who the fuck is Al-Qaeda? why aren't you asking for specific names instead of a group?

do you think there was a handfull of people behind 9/11?

do you know how the military kept the development of the "armored tank" a secret? they had different companies build each major part and only a small group assemble the final product. this way no one really knew what it was. they told the workers it was a vehicle used to carry water to troops, hence the nickname "tank".

the military and government is very clever when it comes to keeping secrets. i'm sure only a small group knew the big picture of 9/11. i don't think people like larry silverstein knew what was going to happen, but i bet he knew there would be an "arrangement" to get rid of his money pit buildings. he got 7.1 billion for the buildings but yet he only has 1 billion left. getting rid of debt isn't cheap!

You people use the words THE GOVERNMENT as a catch phrase. Why is it so difficult for any conspiracy type to ever answer such a simple question, like WHO in the government was behind the conspiracy?

all that tin hat gabbing ... its simple physics ...

a 100+ storey building coming down in free fall speed = controlled demolition :2 cents:

oh, or, was the WTC made of tin foil? lousy US craftsmen work i guess ...

this thread is truth :)

WHO in the Al-Qaeda was responsible for the attack? that should be the question you're asking because that's the story you believe.

you don't believe the government was involved with this so you should be more interested in finding out who in the Al-Qaeda is responsible and why can't we hold them accountable for it.

I'm not accusing anyone. I am asking a question to the people that believe in a GOVERNMENT conspiracy. You have beat every little detail to death,posted every youtube video but you can't tell us who in the GOVERNMENT was behind it.

Matter of fact,no one in any conspiracy thread I have ever read has. The GOVERNMENT is not a deity..it's a congress a senate and the executive branch. Those are people that were elected by the people. These conspirators would have names.

You suggest you KNOW exactly what happened on that day.You know why it happened.Why don't you say WHO made it happen.

below is the government anyone is referring to at the time.

but it is not the list of perps people are looking for as most of these people are above reproach and have very distinguished public service records...doubtful any of them would be party to anything sinister.

however to make a complete list..you would need to include financial instruments involved in decision making around the time...banking..military industrial..essential resources...anything that is really important to the functioning of a country.

to play devils advocate...id say less then 5 of the names on the list would have been involved...some people point the finger at cheney...as he made so much money by the usa going to war...and fulfilling the pipeline contract...but that in itself wouldnt be enough to entice one person into masterminding anything

the only way this whole conspiracy is possible...is if it was a military coup operation...shock and awe...while really...power was switched to the ones who needed it..
any investigation into secret organizations running the SEC, controlling secret service etc etc....all those were now finished and closed....anyway...lots of places to look and find people who benefited....but that is not a fair to place to look for villains they say...the clincher is that everyone involved would probably have to believe in it, like perhaps god sent them to accomplish this at any cost.

religion is a fucked up thing.
mercenaries are cheap..they are loyal to each other..and their group loyalty can be bought....but religion freaks will do it for free and believe in it and thank god for allowing them to be part of it after..lol


Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff
1)George W. Bush - President
(2) Dick Cheney - Vice President
(3) Don Rumsfeld - Secretary of Defense
(4) Condoleeza Rice - National Security Adivisor, member of NSC
(5) Colin Powell - Secretary of State
(6) Andrew Card - WH Chief of Staff
(7) I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby - Chief of Staff for VP
(8) Mary J. Matalin - Counselor to the VP
(9) George J. Tenet - CIA Director, member of NSC
(10) Steven Hadley - Deputy National Security Advisor, member of NSC
(11) Gen. Henry H. Shelton - Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, on NSC
(12) Margaret LaMontagne - Assistant to the President on Domestic Policy
(13) Larry Lindsey - Assistant to the President on Economic Policy
(14) Rosina Bierbaum - Director, Office for Science and Tech
(15) Paul D. Wolfowitz - Deputy Secretary of Defense
(16) Jaymie Durnan - Special Assistant to the Deputy Secretary, and Secretary of Defense
(17) Donald L. Evans - Secretary of Commerce
(18) Ann Veneman - Secretary of Agriculture
(19) James G. Roche - Secretary of the Airforce
(20) Thomas E. White - Secretary of the Army
(21) Gordon R. England - Secretary of the Navy
(22) Lt. Gen. Ronald Kadish, USAF - Director of Ballistic Missile Defense Organization
(23) Roderick R. Paige - Secretary of Education
(24) Spencer Abraham - Secretary of Energy
(25) Tommy G. Thompson - Secretary of Health and Human Services
(26) Mel R. Martinez - Secretary of Housing and Urban Dev.
(27) Gale A. Norton - Secretary of the Interior
(28) John Ashcroft - Attorney General, Dept of Justice
(29) David T. Ayres - Chief of Staff for the Dept of Justice
(30) Elaine L. Chao - Secretary of Labor
(31) Richard L. Armitage - Deputy Secretary of State
(32) Norman Y. Mineta - Secretary of Transportation
(33) Michael P. Jackson - Deputy Secretary of Transportation
(34) Paul H. O'Neill - Secretary of The Treasury
(35) Anthony J. Principi - Secretary of Veterans Affairs
(36) John E. McLaughlin - Deputy Director of CIA
(37) John E. Robson - President and Chair of the EXPORT-IMPORT BANK OF THE UNITED STATES
(38) Joe M. Allbaugh - director of FEMA
(39) Alan Greenspan - Director of the Federal Reserve
(40) Elaine Kaplan - Special Counsel
(41) Laura S. Unger - Director of the Security and Trades Commission
(42) Stephen Koplan - Chair of United States International Trade Commission
(43) Robert S. Mueller, III - FBI Director on Sept 11th 2001
(44) Thomas J. Pickard - FBI Director 2001 prior to 9/11
(45) Louis Freeh - FBI Director 1993 to 2001

id also include various mercenary type companies


anyway...just playing devils advocate

You forgot my mailman..he is a republican.

Air Force General Richard Myers asleep on the button?

doesnt sound like the type of man to be asleep on the job, he must be feeling the guilt.

the second plane for sure should have been shot down before it hit its target

yeah for sure...he was delivering the anthrax..lol

i dont think this has anything to do with republicans or democrats:2 cents:

i can't give you a list of people who were involved because i don't know and when there's no hard evidence it would be a "conspiracy theory".

it wouldn't be hard to make a list of people who must of known it was being planned. for example, you can't install thousands of pounds of explosives in several buildings without anyone knowing about it.

did you know marvin p. bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called securacom that provided security for the world trade center, united airlines, and dulles international airport? the company was backed by KuwAm, a kuwaiti-american investment firm on whose board marvin bush also served.

you mean the company who took the bomb sniffing dogs out of the world trade center...as soon as they took over control of it

yup, the same company.

on the weekend of sept. 8 & 9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2,
the south tower. this power down condition meant there was no electrical
supply for approx 36hrs from floor 50 up. the reason given by the WTC for the power down was that cabling in the tower was being upgraded. of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers'
coming in and out of the tower.

the order to bring down the towers came straight from Mr. Bilderberg. he is not only the reclusive yet charismatic leader of his own self-named group, he is a member.

how can so many eye witness testimonies be ignored? btw, none of these were recorded in the 9/11 commission report.

"There was just an explosion in the south tower. It seemed like on television when they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions."--Firefighter Richard Banaciski

"I saw a flash flash flash at the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?"--Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory

"It was like a professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."--Paramedic Daniel Rivera

My point was, your question was kind of dumb..

It wouldn't be a conspiracy theory if we had a list of names that would prove a group within the Gov had a hand in it.

Then, the words "the government" is like, if you have a group of police, people don't name every cop, they don't say it was Swat mixed with beat cops mixed with officers, they say the word police.

For entertainment value, if you really want names simply lookup the vast groups and theories related to Gov's all around the world. You can find links between world leaders, powerful people in power, bankers, the Military, mass murders of people, self planned attacks in most Countries around the world... and a long ass list of names to go with it.

Anyway with a tad bit of logic, the word "the gov" relates to whatever powers, a single person, a group, or the entire gov itself or people they hired, whatever it is - they are all part of the government that is controlling us all.

eyewitness memory is highly fallible.

They have audio recordings from the Fire Department on the radio, they are talking about it and you can hear peoples reactions too.

Not going to forget that very easily..

You guys are still arguing with morons. Cut it out please.

So correct... It's almost mind blowing that any American wouldn't think our Government hasn't attacked us before, has allowed attacks to happen, and has planed for other massive, murder style, attacks.

I wouldn't want to be the moron that didn't question our Gov. Actually, didn't someone really famous say we SHOULD question our Gov? I'm bad with quotes.

you lost your arguement a few pages ago :1orglaugh

Uhhhhhhhh no he didn't. :1orglaugh

here's another good one!

"When the people fear the government you have tyranny...when the government fears the people you have liberty."
--Thomas Jefferson --

ok, you got me...it was more than just a few pages ago :thumbsup

It has been implied in this thread over and over again that the US GOVERNMENT was behind it. That it is an alleged massive conspiracy clearly involving many people. Many people require a strong leadership to succeed in such a plan. All these people need motivation to stay the course. This alleged conspiracy wasn't masterminded and run by a couple of SP4's in the Army.

you seem to at least understand that if you take a step and start to define "government" you open up so many ridiculous arguments that its better left alone.

we have a government consisting of hundreds of thousands of people. considerably more if you add NY State Government and then of course considerably more people when you factor in all the airport personnel, military, witnesses, fire dept, police dept etc etc etc.

you've just said you don't have to make it clear who did what. why? because you know full well that its not possible to orchestrate something like that on such a massive scale and pull it off perfectly. instead, like everyone else, you have to dodge the question because you know it leads to a losing argument. you have to believe that Al Gore and George Bush and Hillary Clinton and Newt Gingrich and Nanci Pelosi, Maxine Waters, the CIA, NSA, FBI etc etc etc... all meet behind close doors, give each other a secret handshake and plot evil plots to kill US Citizens together.... and through all this, no one changes their mind, has a change or heart etc.

all completely impossible... yet you call others sheep for not believing something so totally moronic and implausible.

and when someone says "a plane never hit the pentagon" and people start posting eye witness accounts, pics of plane parts scattered all over the place etc etc etc.. you have to retreat and insist "no one has posted one single bit of proof".... then you rely on conjecture and speculation which you call "facts" to construct an impossible scenario that makes far less sense than the government just hijacking a plane and flying it into the pentagon.

you cling to the idea that the buildings were demo'ed, completely ignoring the massive technical feat this is. the total volume of explosives required. the fact that buildings are not just simply "demo'ed" - they are prepared over time or that this would require (according to the "expert" cited in this thread) over 100 tons of the suspected explosive to actually be effective.. and you totally ignore the fact that 100 tons = 200,000 pounds and the impossible feat of setting up two massive structures in this way with NO ONE figuring it out or noticing.

the list goes on and on. you guys make no sense. that's why people are making fun of you. i would guess that no one here believes the whole story is being told... however, that's completely different than insisting an impossible story is the only truth and then labeling those who question you as "sheep" for what you see in your mind as the easy win.

its pathetic.

it seems we have a whole board full of structural engineers, aviation experts, counter terrorism experts and national security experts who happen to double as morbidly obese, mildly retarded and mostly broke webmasters.

don't waste your time replying with "the government has attacked its own citizens before" and stick to the issue... GEORGE BUSH's Government and the massive number of people who would have to be involved... in the year 2001

keyword: reaction

as in war, one's reaction to catastrophic events going on around them is not neccesarily accurate or true. it's a reactionary view to the chaos.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:thumbsup

That's been the case since 9/11. Once you focus on the likely suspects the whole political structure can not be ignored. If Bush himself had been calling the shots,the democrats would nail his ass to the wall. If Ted Kennedy was behind it,the republicans would skin him alive on The O'Reilly factor.

If the democrats had one shred of evidence that the people across the aisle,viciously killed thousands of Americans. history suggests we would hear about it on NBC every night until the end of time.

When called a "mental midget", I do tend to react negatively; but you are right, I should have kept it on a personal level and not involve your business.

so 8 years after the fact, have all the Al-Qaeda been caught? can't we "nail them to the wall" or "skin them alive"?

Post of the year. :thumbsup

It wouldn't be hard to pull that off... It's not like anyone was watching.. I wouldn't say it went perfect. I don't think all those groups or people did this, I think people in the right power suppressed information, making it so nobody was looking.

It's not a question to dodge, it's a question you can't answer because with an answer people would be going to prison.

[QUOTE=Pleasurepays;15778234]all completely impossible... yet you call others sheep for not believing something so totally moronic and implausible.

I take the side of repeating History... that has already repeated.

What did I say about the pentagon?

You're a Bomb/Explosive Expert? Oh.. Maybe you want to lookup what Thermite is.

And anyway, I don't think it was demo'ed.. Way fucking easier ways to take shit down.

In relation to the article posted on this Topic - It would be what created the heat, that melted everything...

Try reading what I have written and not what some others are talking about. However, 'sheep' would be targeted to those who don't think our Gov didn't play a hand in this, simply because you can't see facts that tell you otherwise. And I would be correct in my statement based on, like I said above, History.

Well... I can't fly a plane and I'm not really an engineer, but I am trained in counter terrorism to an extreme, national security, well SRT - it was my job, and I have just a tiny bit of knowledge in EOD, but I'm no expert.

But I have seen Thermite first hand, and a few tons (1 bathtub = 1 ton) of that shit is one hellish amount of fire and heat, and it doesn't really burn out so much it just goes and.. goes, no amount of water will put it out. And you don't need a charge for it, I don't even think you need anything but... fire and it goes off.


Anyway... even if no Thermite was found.. other things, still don't add up.. But my point isn't all that, it's that if you don't think the Gov had a hand in it... You Are A Sheep! Simple as that.

here's something funny. a few months ago i was a show on the Discovery about a family that does demolition work and they were setting up the explosives when they discovered a huge support beam. they were trying to figure out how to set the explosive so it would cut it to prevent it from becoming a cantilever.

as they were measuring it one of the guys said "i haven't seen a beam like this since the twin towers". at first i didn't think anything of it but after i started thinking about i wondered how he would know the twin towers have supports like that.

maybe it was a coincidence or maybe they just studied the building drawings but i thought it was strange.

No biggie, Sir Hershie. Beer time!

my bad, it was a series on NatGeo called "Blow Down".

here's an interesting fact about 9/11.

everyone already knows they hauled away the evidence within days of the attack. well, they sold the evidence to china for $120/ton. this is less than the going rate of $160/ton.

so the evidence from the largest crime scene in US history wasn't even worthy of the standard price yet it was removed at astonishing speed and each truck was specially equipped with a GPS device so they could be closely monitored.

very interesting

wow


12 pages

Pretty fucking pathetic how you keep bumping your own thread.

But that you're pretty fucking pathetic is nothing new. Stupid fuck.