Ever tried to find a girl from POF?

Of course tube sites make money. I have limited the length and number of new videos daily on my tube, and it makes me a tidy little profit every month after hosting ... very little work and it builds itself with a trickle of feeder traffic.

Am toying with selling it in the buy/sell forum, and doubt I would have had the offers I have if tubes weren't making anything.

Of course anyone with a brain knows illegal tubes with 30 min videos aren't exactly going to sell as well as more limited tubes, but hey thats just common sense.

Ever try to find a real girl on the adult dating sites?
Fuck I am not even talking about the down right fraudulent advertising that dating sites perform either. Which will eventually get some of these sites into a legal shithole soon. Especially since you mentioned when economy gets rough people seek relationships, also when economy gets rough people and lawyers get greedy/desperate and the dating sites are sitting ducks with their current ads, fake emails, profiles, etc.

So you do not agree with the thread but agree that tube sites can make money, however did not state if they made you more or less money per click than other stuff.

What kind of bandwidth deals are these larger tubes getting?

I would say I make around the same as I do .... or did on tgp traffic. The bonus is its so easy to grow tube sites, whereas growing a TGP nowadays is a major pain in the ass.

if there was no such thing as any kind ofn"free" porn the vast majority of surfers would still not be paying for porn.

Have porn shop suffered loss of customers since the internet? sure. If there wasn't any internet would they be getting as many customers in their shops as there are people surfing for porn? No. Not even close.

if the local McDonald's gave out a coupon for a free Big Mac good for durring a 1 week period. The number of Big Macs that McDonald's made durring that week is going to be more than it was the week before or the week after. I thinkw e would all agree if that McDonald's though that 100% or even 50% of those that got a free big Mac were going to PAY for one the next week we would think they were stupid. The fact is McDonald's didn't LOSE any customers the next week it's just the vast majority of those geting their free Big Mac were never going to be customers in he first place. But maybe just maybe by giving out those free Big Macs, McDonald's gained a few new customers and perhaps those that didn't become new customers managed to order fires and a coke with their free Big Mac so McDonald's made money off them anyways.

I could understand giving away 4 minutes, but the whole clip?
Theres a site I like now and want to join, but they give so much away in their tour that I jack off to their tour and dont join the site.
they give away like 3 minute scene with full cum shot right in the samples. I get off on that all the time and never pay.

You would say, or you have actual data?
So are you saying you make the same amount of cash with the same amount of traffic on your tube as you did with your tgp?

I have met literally hundreds of girls off dating sites, never off of POF. 90% of the girls on POF use POF more like Myspace, a social networking site. POF is a one of a kind, like the Hun. I dont think this model is easily duplicated. IDK there are many people trying to we will see. Thing is on a dating site if a chick emails you that you have just got to have your gonna pay to be able to read or reply to her email.

Hard data from my tubes and tgps.

I can't speak for everyone, but in my case the quality of traffic is roughly the same. I made sure to limit video length and only list around 20 vids a day. I admit that I have been getting out of the tgp game as I saw the tgp ship start to sink, so some of my tgp data is dated.

Will you teach me how to make my chicks do anal squirts?

Squirting from her pussy while getting fucked in the ass. LOL. It's quite common with girls that like anal.

Then how would they get it? If their is *NO* free porn they are going to have to pay to get it.

Porn shops have to deal with the lack of privacy. So of course porn shops will never see the numbers the Porn sites see.

But if their was no internet the Porn shops and theaters would be a lot busier today.

(also include *NO* PPV or OnDemand porn as it's another source for porn aside from the shops and theaters)

Once you eat a Big Mac it is gone. If you want another one and your coupon says "Limit 1 per customer" you have no choice but to buy another one.

A porn video is not digestible and will not rot it can last forever.

Also McDonalds doesn't JUST sell BigMacs they also sell many other food products. That people purchase while getting a Free Big Mac... and often those Free Big Macs *ONLY* come with the purchase of something else they sell..

I don't think i've ever seen a McDonalds coupon that gave a Free Sandwich without the purchase of another food item.

McDonalds would not give a customer a coupon that gives them an unlimited amount of FREE Big Macs or French Fries..

Yes McDonald still has the McFish and McNuggets but their most popular items the BigMac and Fries are their best sellers.

So they would be losing sales, profits, etc they normally had by GIVING AWAY their most popular items..

Everyone agrees with you that by giving out a bit for free it encourages people to come and pay for more.. Hence the success of TGP/MGP/Free Sites..

:2 cents:

how can anyone say tubes brings in good sales when the industry has been fucking eroding out from under us for the past 2 years.
Plenty of people who were making $500 a day are struggling to make $100/day now

Let me compare a MGP to McDonalds...

It's like McDonalds giving you 1/4 of a Big Mac, no fries and no pop and hoping that you are still hungry or thirsty and enjoyed it soo much that you are willing to pay for the rest of it.

But a Tube site gives you a Quarter pounder but no Big Mac, No Fries or Pop.. Which.. Most people don't care about because they really just wanted a Burger and they are satisfied with that..

and on that note... I'm going to McDicks..

Yeah I'm hungry now too, havent had Mcd in months

The world as a whole has been eroding for the past 2 years... not just porn on the internet. Sure there were already problems generating within the porn industry before the economic decline, but it was only a matter of time, you just need to move on and adapt, simple as that. Nothing stays the same forever.

Here is what I know...

Myself and every friend (and I do have a few) I have spoken to in depth about the issue all stopped buying porn once we found where to get it for free.

While I do agree that people are collectors, I can't say that the majority of them are unless they are fixed on a certain models. If they collect from the niche in general, the full length clips should provide them everything they need to collect a ton of free content. The general surfer is surfing with his cock in his hand looking for something that will get him off. I know because I'm one of those guys.

With that said, my kind may just be a small percent and what Choker says is true. I also agree with him that most surfers can not save a FLV clip. If he is unable to get off on a full length FLV, or 100s of them... then I don't know where he would turn to, though my guess is another tube.

I can only base my opinion on my personal experience and those who have shared the same experience with me.

Just like back in the old days of porn shops. Most people just simply didn't go to them even though they may have wanted to view porn. If there wasn't any free porn and no way to get it at all on the internet without paying for it, to think that any more than 5% of surfers( if that ) who look for porn would pay for it is ludacris. People would simply do without

Sure but not a 1 for 1 ratio. You can't say for every 100 people looking at porn on the internet that's 100 more customers for the porn shops.


the point is many people are only getting the Big Mac because its free, they have no interest in ever PAYING for one.


And goes stale just as fast. Why are so mnay new pornos being made? Why do people demand new content from the same girls or demand new girls? Is there a point in a girl being in 500 scenes? Isn't one scene good enough? It's some dick in her pussy or ass. Isn't it all the same? So why make more? Why aren't guys satisfied with watching the same scene over and over again? Pretty much there had been enough porn content made by 1994 to last any guy a lifetime. So why make more?


And you can't upsell other stuff on a tube site?

Actually they have. I've used them and it's not really germain to my point.


Yet they still do it form time to time? Hmmm.

and when TPGS/MGP/Free sites came out the same people used the tube argument for them too. Funny how TGPs are ok now but when they were new they were the death of people paying for porn because they gave away to much content.

The fact is the just about every tube site has their movies recorded at around a 400-500 kbps bit rate which frankly sucks. Just because something is free doesn't mean it's good. just like my free Big Mac analogy. Trying to play a scene on my 22 inch monitor sucks let alone trying to play it on a huge HDTV. Some people are in fact willing to pay for higher quality. And perhaps that's the type of customers you should be worried about instead of trying to force freeloaders to become purchasers which will never happen.

The reason for this is extremely simple, and one of the main basis for marketing.

The longer a user sits on a page, the more likely he/she is to click something.

How does this exactly work?

When John is sitting on ExampleTube.com watching a video, he is more likely to see your AD/Link and click it if he was on the page for 10 minutes, as oppose to 2 minutes. Because in 10 minutes the odds of him engaging with whatever links/ADs are on the page, are much higher than 2 minutes. Actually, the longer John sits on the page beyond any specific minute, the odds almost double up on the next minute for CTR.

There is a deeper science to this stuff, but that's the basics of it. It will help you understand the solid reason on why 10 minutes is better than 2 minutes.

I know a lot of you will not bother to click this link to learn the truth about how tubes REALLY make money, but here it is...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KW18GGGKJQM

It's more complicated than you think!

Amen! Finally ...

I watched most of the video and now I know how.

http://i42.tinypic.com/281wx90.jpg

it still amazes me how a bunch of money-hungry people can look at a real, (and a potential), renewing revenue pool in the BILLIONS annually - (and the full amount of that money can be accessed easily) - and through hard work devising intricate cunning plans and methodologies they get to extract only MILLIONS for a few - and thousands for others.

This isn't about whether or not tubes make money - of course some will, all forms of marketing will make money for some. Every damn one of them - for some.

This is all about too much accumulated free porn. This is about ways of marketing that maximize revenue - not just 'gonna get me some'

Most industries are concerned with maximizing the amount that they can get from their real and potential revenue pools.

but not this industry

the only types of people that actually NEED to increase the amount of free porn are: 1) traffic sellers - the tactic turns most of the traffic to garbage - but it is traffic - and thats what they sell, so the more the merrier. 2) people who sell to different products (cams, dating, pills, toys, etc...), cause they don't care if they rape the paysite industry - its not what they derive their income from. Program owners don't need to give it away - and their legal tubes are nothing more than the same tours they always had - a glimpse of THEIR scenes to garner interest.

tubes, torrents, free porn, password sharing, tgp, mgp, rapidshare and all the rest of the chiken-little scary things (including card slamming) will allways make money for some.

but the amount of money that could be made, and potentially be made, thru a 'very-little-for-free' marketing model, practiced by all, is staggering.

and no one would even have to 'work hard' at it.

I think it was BVF that once posted "I get mine, the rest of you can burn in hell' (sorry if it wasn't you BVF) This is now the prevelant attitude sweeping this industry. (apologies to those that do not subscribe to this philosiphy)

So I give up.

In the past if I liked a sites tour I always paid for memberships, throughout my life - but no more. I even have a paysite of my own - not even going to bother opening it until you all rape yourselves to death - or get smart about all this. Got myself a demonoid and empornium account and none of you are ever going to get any of my money again. And i I am immune to your ads.

I am now officially a Gideonite - he is now my god and I shall not refute his wisdom. The entire internet is now 'timeshifted' for me.

I no longer feel a need to be one of the idiots that actually pays for it (you know, to support the industry or anything stupid like that...)

Keep on rockin' out the free stuff for me everyone, for I have seen the light. and i don't need dating, cams, pills, toys, or paysite memberships - and if i did it would not be your ads that got me there - I'd go straight to the source. (i know how to clean my cookies very well, thank you)

Long Live The Tubes!!!!

If you're not in the business of producing content and in the business of selling traffic, then of course you love tubes. Tubes attract all the surfers. However, they're a nightmare for content producers to police.

i put zero free content on my sites and yet i still get sales. crazy stuff.

yeah right?

Imagine if you gave all of your content away for free instead?

Your sales would shoot through the roof!

This is the last I'm going to say about this in any thread, because it's not a good idea to educate your competition, but people did help me out when I was coming up so from time to time I pay that forward.

If you don't own a tube, then you can only speculate as to what they make. You really have no idea what they make and what they make it on, unless you're doing it.

Those of you who think they give too much away and that's bad for business may be right, but you're not going to be able to compete with them for the eyeballs unless you offer a similar product.

Just ask picpost and toplist owners how much money they make from those sites today, the ones who refused to evolve to the link list and then the TGP. (yes I know those older top sites are still around, but they're tiny now in terms of traffic, there was a time when they were the biggest porn sites on the net)

Even those of you who think doing SEO will keep you from having to give away content to get visitors better think again. The search engines are figuring out that people searching for free porn, actually want to see free porn, not a page with a bunch of links to paid porn.
Bounce rate is the future of SEO, IMHO, and building a sticky site is going to be the way to climb up in the SERPS.

Google knows it has to return relevant results in order to keep end users happy, so when someone searches for "big tits video" google is going to give them pages with big tits videos, not a page with a bunch of text about big tits videos or a page with alot of inbound links with the anchor text "big tits video".

Alot of people screamed and yelled and cried about TGP's and how they were ruining biz, giving away the store....and let's not go off on a tangent about how this is different and TGP's weren't that bad.....the point I'm making here is that no amount of bitching stopped the proliferation of TGP's (remember TGP2?)....the link lists never regained their prominence....the people who complained and cried foul missed out....the people who saw the writing on the wall and adapted are the ones who prospered.

Today is no different.

the bad voices of these industry are abusing their power once again..
full length makes more money my ass

It may not make any sense, but if you click this link you will see the Retarded Llama...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=X5GmH4FFSDk

No kidding!

if u don't understand what I've written then fine. i am not here to argue with anyone.
Bad advice is simply bad advice.. If anything at all; choker is just looking to get more people to open tubes, so he can sell traffic. At least thats what i seem to have picked up in this hopeless ass thread. Why even bother.. go fuck yourself bitch

Hey man, calm down. I wasn't arguing with you, I was simply referencing the Retarded Llama video. Don't let the llama get you down dude.

Tube sites make no money..

People didn't/don't go to porn shops because of the stigma..

Basically what you are saying is no matter what the scenario is only ??% of the surfers will pay for porn whether it is free or not.

The people who are atm Free Porn Enthusiasts would just never look at porn?

That is really hard to believe..

Definitely not 1to1.. The porn shops and the movie theaters have to deal with lack of privacy and negative stigma..

People also don't like having porn in the house as someone can easily find it.. And its still considered taboo to own porn..

Since internet porn has become popular they have seen a decrease in business... Magazine sales and DVD sales have done nothing but drop..

This is not opinion it's fact..

Do they have no interest in paying for a BigMac because they know if they wait a month McDonalds will run a promo and get one for free?

Do they have no interest in paying for a BigMac because they don't enjoy it all that much?

Do they have no interest in paying for a BigMac because they can't afford it?

Why?

Are you 100% positive they will NEVER give in to temptation?

You can't assume these things..

The reason soo much porn is produced is for many different reasons...

Guys do get bored fast. But...

You can't eat a big mac more than once.

And if the guy/girl has to they will watch the same video over and over and over and over. Even if they don't have to.. They might just like it..


The Illegal Tube Site is not McDonalds the Paysite is McDonalds and the paysite sells it's porn content, it's crosssales and it's upsells..

If people aren't going to the paysite the paysite isn't selling it's content, upsells or crosssales..

McDonalds does those coupons to get people into THEIR restaurant to buy THEIR products or THEIR upsells.

Programs give a little bit of their free content to TGPs/Legal Tubes to get people to go to THEIR paysite so they can sell THEIR products..

Illegal tube sites give away free content to get people to their site to buy products from a variety of companies.

But not necessarily the product of the company that is having their product given away for free..

It'd be like 7eleven stores stealing and then giving away free McDonalds (not coupons) to get people to come in and buy Magazines, Gum, Cigarettes.. and maybe they might want more McDonalds' products that the 7eleven store doesn't have so they will go to McDonalds to get it... *IF* they know it is a McDonalds product and know where a McDonalds is located..

But the majority of people are happy with the McDonalds' products from the 7eleven store or may never know it is a McDonalds product... so they will never go to a McDonalds.. And McDonalds will never be able to sell it's products..

Illegal tube sites are similar to legal tube sites in that sometimes the free content benefits the right sponsor and some times it doesn't..

But on a legal tube site the sponsor has a better chance of benefiting from giving away their free content..

So that would be like McDonalds giving 7eleven stores a very small sample of it's food to give away to it's customers with a flyer attached.

They may on the RARE occasion offer a free sandwich deal.. But they don't run it for 365 days a year, every year, with no limit on how many times a customer can use the coupon.

TGPs and MGPs followed rules set by programs.

I have a lot of Surfers that don't even realize TGPs are promotion.. They think it's just cool webmasters putting up free porn.. And they are satisfied with all the free galleries never needing to sign up to a paysite..

I personally believe TGPs to be a problem.. It's the amount of free content on them that makes them the problem... A surfer really can get off every day by just visiting their favorite TGP/MGP..

Just like all tube sites legal or illegal..

Most people don't need a Kobe beef burger they are very happy with the McDonalds burger..

People HAVE to eat. They aren't going to starve because the food isn't free.. Or because it's not Gourmet..





It's almost 4am I don't know if any of that made sense. :1orglaugh

the programs followed the rules set by the tgps...

Full lenght my ass! What big sponsors give away full length on purpose Choker? Cause if your statement is true than there must be others knowing this right?

Sounds a bit crazy. Like saying "show the entire picture set for free and you'll get better conversions". Or "surfers think the site has 20 second clips only" when they click from a MGP gallery. They join because they want to see more of those pics, or more of the vids. Not because they have free access to the full content already.

Sad but very true. :2 cents:
I've started several discussion threads on my community messageboards, as well as (like many others) spent way too much time trolling everything from YouTube to rapidshare to PornBB type sites........and all of it is crystal clear to me. Even in a small niche that took longer than most to be penetrated by the tubes and sharing sites......the people who are freeloaders just aren't going to buy in any great numbers anymore. Period.
They may occasionally buy a clip they can't find anywhere else for a few bucks, but that's about it. Paysites? VOD? Forget about it.
I've heard long justifications from them - people who I don't know, people who used to be customers but haven't bought anything in a year or two, people who I've known personally for 20 years. It doesn't matter what rational arguments are brought to the table.
Even without sponsors stoking the fire (and in my niche, the sponsors are NOT cooperating with the illegal tubes, etc.), there are too many places for people to find the stuff they need to jerk off to - and there are too many people willing to upload it...to put the genie back in the bottle.
Finding alternative methods of selling more material to the people who still want high-quality stuff, or finding alternative upsells - is the only answer.
I still can't quantify how much of the the downturn I've seen is due to the increase in tubes, sharing sites, etc --- and how much is due to the economy. My gut feel is that it's about 50-50. But if the recession lasts a long time, many of those people who cancelled their memberships or cut back on their VOD purchases for economic reasons (and I've heard from/talked to many of them)...will find the free sources out of economic necessity (they may stop spending in a recession, but they aren't going to stop whacking off), and good luck bringing them back when the economy improves.
I'm off on a 3-day retreat later this week to strategize - because IMO the economic collapse has accelerated the decline in most of our previously successful business models.
I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only one rethinking a lot of basic assumptions that have worked for a long, long time. :2 cents:

:warning Keep making sense and youre gonna get banned. :warning

go to burger king buy something from the menu
flip over the reciept
they have a phone number to call within 48 hours of purchase
if you do answer a simple survey and you get a free code that give you free whopper when you come in next time.

so the tube model is not as crazy as you think it is.

The "masterminds" in this business are hellbent on turning $1 million dollars into $1000 dollars. Which doesn't matter if it's not your million and $1000 is considered profit, by whatever means.

Choker has his own obvious agenda that will cause many to lose $$$. Unless you're stupid enough to think he's giving the magical key to riches out of the kindness of his heart :winkwink:

This statement is absurd. The Genie is already out of the bottle my friend, nobody can put it back in.

well yes and no, the genie is out of the bottle
but what you are saying has the effect of creating customers for your product/services

The fact is that turning content into a traffic source would solve the problem too
it however would create competitors who could significantly undercut your prices for feeder traffic.

Obviously you are not advocating that solution :winkwink::winkwink:

BTW i am not accusing you of doing anything wrong, the fact the solutions you see are going to be colored by your expertise.

How so?

a TGP couldn't use whatever content at whatever lengths they wanted or the Program would ban or suspend that affiliate..

Content has *always* been the traffic source the problem is NOW it is actually taking traffic away from the source supplying the content and giving it to someone else.

Legit TGP,MGP,Tube sites are a great source of promotion and traffic generation nobody will argue with you on that.

It has just gotten to a point where it is becoming a problem.

There are circle jerk tube sites just like there are/were circle jerk tgps/mgps. The quality of thier traffic is not a threat to my business. My core buinsess is large programs that know what is going on with tube sites and are adapting thier business models. Truth is my tube network is stagnant right now because i have not updated the content in many months, but I am doing that as we speak. I don't need sponsor content I have plenty of my own. By the way those clicks under the full length movies? These movies I have license to they are not the sponsors, yet I linked to the sponsor with something like "Click here to download this full length movie". Imagine if it was the sponsors movie, conversions would have been way way better. Bottom line I'm trying to get people to wake up and see is that sex has been used to market other products for many many years. There are other products that we can use porn to sell. There will still be a demand for content. What we need are more products to sell on adult sites, wake up and realize that we cant sell sex for too much longer, so why not use sex to sell other products? Hell if you promote dating sites your already doing this anyway.

This is exactly right. Before TGP's, nobody offered console free versions of their tours. Today, everyone does.

There are alot of other good examples of how TGP's drove the marketplace.


TGP's could do whatever they wanted. All program owners care about is $$$. If you send sales, that's all they care about.

The only thing limiting the amount of free content in the past was the cost of bandwidth.

There was always someone out there trying to make 100 picture galleries or give away huge ass movie files....and they didn't make it, not because the sponsor banned them, but because they couldn't afford their bandwidth bill or got kicked off their free host.

You people act as if sponsors warmly embraced TGP's from the beginning and now these evil tubes have come along and fucked things up for everyone.

Not true.

TGP's were just as hated when they first started as tubes are today. The only real difference was that in hating the TGP's, you were hating the owner PLUS the 300 submitters of the galleries he listed each day.

Today you get to focus all that hate on one person, the tube owner, so people get that much more worked up about it. :2 cents:

that not making content a traffic source, that is making content the revenue generating capacity of an external traffic source.

selling your content in the context that it build traffic to be used however you want is turning your content into a traffic source.

look at cokes deal with american idol, it doesn't matter weather the episode is sold on dvd, given away for on tv , or stolen using bit torrent, the traffic value for coke only gets better the more the content is distributed.

Abundance not scarcity is the value proposition for content that is turned into a traffic source.

oh i agree with you but you are making the same mistake as OZ is, your confusing content as a traffic draw, with content as a traffic source. The two are closely related however this is a difference.

See the coke example above.

soon all your tubes will be replaced with tubes who film their own exclusive full length videos! adapt or die!

they don't make enough money to do that