It may not make any sense, but if you click this link you will see the Retarded Llama...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=X5GmH4FFSDk

No kidding!

if u don't understand what I've written then fine. i am not here to argue with anyone.
Bad advice is simply bad advice.. If anything at all; choker is just looking to get more people to open tubes, so he can sell traffic. At least thats what i seem to have picked up in this hopeless ass thread. Why even bother.. go fuck yourself bitch

Hey man, calm down. I wasn't arguing with you, I was simply referencing the Retarded Llama video. Don't let the llama get you down dude.

Tube sites make no money..

People didn't/don't go to porn shops because of the stigma..

Basically what you are saying is no matter what the scenario is only ??% of the surfers will pay for porn whether it is free or not.

The people who are atm Free Porn Enthusiasts would just never look at porn?

That is really hard to believe..

Definitely not 1to1.. The porn shops and the movie theaters have to deal with lack of privacy and negative stigma..

People also don't like having porn in the house as someone can easily find it.. And its still considered taboo to own porn..

Since internet porn has become popular they have seen a decrease in business... Magazine sales and DVD sales have done nothing but drop..

This is not opinion it's fact..

Do they have no interest in paying for a BigMac because they know if they wait a month McDonalds will run a promo and get one for free?

Do they have no interest in paying for a BigMac because they don't enjoy it all that much?

Do they have no interest in paying for a BigMac because they can't afford it?

Why?

Are you 100% positive they will NEVER give in to temptation?

You can't assume these things..

The reason soo much porn is produced is for many different reasons...

Guys do get bored fast. But...

You can't eat a big mac more than once.

And if the guy/girl has to they will watch the same video over and over and over and over. Even if they don't have to.. They might just like it..


The Illegal Tube Site is not McDonalds the Paysite is McDonalds and the paysite sells it's porn content, it's crosssales and it's upsells..

If people aren't going to the paysite the paysite isn't selling it's content, upsells or crosssales..

McDonalds does those coupons to get people into THEIR restaurant to buy THEIR products or THEIR upsells.

Programs give a little bit of their free content to TGPs/Legal Tubes to get people to go to THEIR paysite so they can sell THEIR products..

Illegal tube sites give away free content to get people to their site to buy products from a variety of companies.

But not necessarily the product of the company that is having their product given away for free..

It'd be like 7eleven stores stealing and then giving away free McDonalds (not coupons) to get people to come in and buy Magazines, Gum, Cigarettes.. and maybe they might want more McDonalds' products that the 7eleven store doesn't have so they will go to McDonalds to get it... *IF* they know it is a McDonalds product and know where a McDonalds is located..

But the majority of people are happy with the McDonalds' products from the 7eleven store or may never know it is a McDonalds product... so they will never go to a McDonalds.. And McDonalds will never be able to sell it's products..

Illegal tube sites are similar to legal tube sites in that sometimes the free content benefits the right sponsor and some times it doesn't..

But on a legal tube site the sponsor has a better chance of benefiting from giving away their free content..

So that would be like McDonalds giving 7eleven stores a very small sample of it's food to give away to it's customers with a flyer attached.

They may on the RARE occasion offer a free sandwich deal.. But they don't run it for 365 days a year, every year, with no limit on how many times a customer can use the coupon.

TGPs and MGPs followed rules set by programs.

I have a lot of Surfers that don't even realize TGPs are promotion.. They think it's just cool webmasters putting up free porn.. And they are satisfied with all the free galleries never needing to sign up to a paysite..

I personally believe TGPs to be a problem.. It's the amount of free content on them that makes them the problem... A surfer really can get off every day by just visiting their favorite TGP/MGP..

Just like all tube sites legal or illegal..

Most people don't need a Kobe beef burger they are very happy with the McDonalds burger..

People HAVE to eat. They aren't going to starve because the food isn't free.. Or because it's not Gourmet..





It's almost 4am I don't know if any of that made sense. :1orglaugh

the programs followed the rules set by the tgps...

Full lenght my ass! What big sponsors give away full length on purpose Choker? Cause if your statement is true than there must be others knowing this right?

Sounds a bit crazy. Like saying "show the entire picture set for free and you'll get better conversions". Or "surfers think the site has 20 second clips only" when they click from a MGP gallery. They join because they want to see more of those pics, or more of the vids. Not because they have free access to the full content already.

Sad but very true. :2 cents:
I've started several discussion threads on my community messageboards, as well as (like many others) spent way too much time trolling everything from YouTube to rapidshare to PornBB type sites........and all of it is crystal clear to me. Even in a small niche that took longer than most to be penetrated by the tubes and sharing sites......the people who are freeloaders just aren't going to buy in any great numbers anymore. Period.
They may occasionally buy a clip they can't find anywhere else for a few bucks, but that's about it. Paysites? VOD? Forget about it.
I've heard long justifications from them - people who I don't know, people who used to be customers but haven't bought anything in a year or two, people who I've known personally for 20 years. It doesn't matter what rational arguments are brought to the table.
Even without sponsors stoking the fire (and in my niche, the sponsors are NOT cooperating with the illegal tubes, etc.), there are too many places for people to find the stuff they need to jerk off to - and there are too many people willing to upload it...to put the genie back in the bottle.
Finding alternative methods of selling more material to the people who still want high-quality stuff, or finding alternative upsells - is the only answer.
I still can't quantify how much of the the downturn I've seen is due to the increase in tubes, sharing sites, etc --- and how much is due to the economy. My gut feel is that it's about 50-50. But if the recession lasts a long time, many of those people who cancelled their memberships or cut back on their VOD purchases for economic reasons (and I've heard from/talked to many of them)...will find the free sources out of economic necessity (they may stop spending in a recession, but they aren't going to stop whacking off), and good luck bringing them back when the economy improves.
I'm off on a 3-day retreat later this week to strategize - because IMO the economic collapse has accelerated the decline in most of our previously successful business models.
I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only one rethinking a lot of basic assumptions that have worked for a long, long time. :2 cents:

:warning Keep making sense and youre gonna get banned. :warning

go to burger king buy something from the menu
flip over the reciept
they have a phone number to call within 48 hours of purchase
if you do answer a simple survey and you get a free code that give you free whopper when you come in next time.

so the tube model is not as crazy as you think it is.

The "masterminds" in this business are hellbent on turning $1 million dollars into $1000 dollars. Which doesn't matter if it's not your million and $1000 is considered profit, by whatever means.

Choker has his own obvious agenda that will cause many to lose $$$. Unless you're stupid enough to think he's giving the magical key to riches out of the kindness of his heart :winkwink:

This statement is absurd. The Genie is already out of the bottle my friend, nobody can put it back in.

well yes and no, the genie is out of the bottle
but what you are saying has the effect of creating customers for your product/services

The fact is that turning content into a traffic source would solve the problem too
it however would create competitors who could significantly undercut your prices for feeder traffic.

Obviously you are not advocating that solution :winkwink::winkwink:

BTW i am not accusing you of doing anything wrong, the fact the solutions you see are going to be colored by your expertise.

How so?

a TGP couldn't use whatever content at whatever lengths they wanted or the Program would ban or suspend that affiliate..

Content has *always* been the traffic source the problem is NOW it is actually taking traffic away from the source supplying the content and giving it to someone else.

Legit TGP,MGP,Tube sites are a great source of promotion and traffic generation nobody will argue with you on that.

It has just gotten to a point where it is becoming a problem.

There are circle jerk tube sites just like there are/were circle jerk tgps/mgps. The quality of thier traffic is not a threat to my business. My core buinsess is large programs that know what is going on with tube sites and are adapting thier business models. Truth is my tube network is stagnant right now because i have not updated the content in many months, but I am doing that as we speak. I don't need sponsor content I have plenty of my own. By the way those clicks under the full length movies? These movies I have license to they are not the sponsors, yet I linked to the sponsor with something like "Click here to download this full length movie". Imagine if it was the sponsors movie, conversions would have been way way better. Bottom line I'm trying to get people to wake up and see is that sex has been used to market other products for many many years. There are other products that we can use porn to sell. There will still be a demand for content. What we need are more products to sell on adult sites, wake up and realize that we cant sell sex for too much longer, so why not use sex to sell other products? Hell if you promote dating sites your already doing this anyway.

This is exactly right. Before TGP's, nobody offered console free versions of their tours. Today, everyone does.

There are alot of other good examples of how TGP's drove the marketplace.


TGP's could do whatever they wanted. All program owners care about is $$$. If you send sales, that's all they care about.

The only thing limiting the amount of free content in the past was the cost of bandwidth.

There was always someone out there trying to make 100 picture galleries or give away huge ass movie files....and they didn't make it, not because the sponsor banned them, but because they couldn't afford their bandwidth bill or got kicked off their free host.

You people act as if sponsors warmly embraced TGP's from the beginning and now these evil tubes have come along and fucked things up for everyone.

Not true.

TGP's were just as hated when they first started as tubes are today. The only real difference was that in hating the TGP's, you were hating the owner PLUS the 300 submitters of the galleries he listed each day.

Today you get to focus all that hate on one person, the tube owner, so people get that much more worked up about it. :2 cents:

that not making content a traffic source, that is making content the revenue generating capacity of an external traffic source.

selling your content in the context that it build traffic to be used however you want is turning your content into a traffic source.

look at cokes deal with american idol, it doesn't matter weather the episode is sold on dvd, given away for on tv , or stolen using bit torrent, the traffic value for coke only gets better the more the content is distributed.

Abundance not scarcity is the value proposition for content that is turned into a traffic source.

oh i agree with you but you are making the same mistake as OZ is, your confusing content as a traffic draw, with content as a traffic source. The two are closely related however this is a difference.

See the coke example above.

soon all your tubes will be replaced with tubes who film their own exclusive full length videos! adapt or die!

they don't make enough money to do that

how do you know how much they make? do you own a tube?

100 full length videos

no, i don't own any tgp's either, but i know how much money they make, same with link lists, i know how much they make and i don't own one of those either

don't be an idiot

i sale thongs

Your observations is not really news, is it?

With or without tubes, if you have ratio 1:500 it means that 499 people are not spending their money. With twice as many surfers, because of the growing number of surfers, and ratio becomes 1:1000, its still the last 1 I'm interested in, and its always been like that. With or without tubes...

Even though the comment you were responding to was made in jest and obviously went over your head.....how on earth would you know how much money they make?

Please share with us how you've stumbled upon this information.

makes more sense to give away free dating and cam sites and upsell paysite memberships

Oh well please enlighten us so that we don't have to be idiots any longer.

Please tell us how much money tgps, link lists, and tube sites make.

I'm waiting with baited breath.

okay then

it's not rocket science

So what you are suggesting is that we get lifestyles condoms or a sex toy company or something like that to pay the cost of content production in exchange for product placement?

That's essentially what Coke's deal with American Idol is right? Product placement.

If I'm missing something please fill me in.

why should i enlighten you and open myself for more critisism? fuck off

fact is tube sites don't make enough money to have all exclusive content and never will

it's not possible

sure...

problem is you can't steal free dating and cam shows

Then it should be no problem whatsoever for you to share the information with us.

I'm still waiting. Holding my breath. Please enlighten me.

i thought were discussing legal tube sites here with full length vids ?

Sure BV, I get it.

How does that foot taste?

Barefootsies might pay for some vids of you right now, and he won't put them on tubes I promise.

buy an add spot and figure it out yourself :2 cents:

fuck off man, keep supporting the cause

[crickets/]

Exactly! The larger tube sites of today offer THOUSANDS of videos, filmed in THOUSANDS of locations, starring THOUSANDS of actors and actresses. Who can afford to accomplish this themselves?

Tubes MAY eventually clean up their act with regards to illegal content, but no single tube owner will ever have the means to populate exclusively.

I can see the largest fish buying out smaller fish, so eventually Company X will offer a tube site that contains many libraries of smaller fish, but in the end Company X will still have to sell something to pay the bills.