You don't even know what the fuck you are talking about... so why don't you just shut the fuck up and let grown men talk.

My main source is the Washington Examiner:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-49208987.html

But since you are likely to refuse to rely on any media source which is not firmly in Obama's pocket how about Politico?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories...232_Page2.html

Anyway I understand that your modus operandi is to degenerate all sources and ignore all facts which don't support your underlying assumption that Obama is a great and transformative force for hope and change so I expect your response to be as condescending and ridiculous as usual.

Anyway I find it pointless to argue with someone who bends all the facts to support their preconceived underlying assumptions. It gives me a headache. :disgust

The goal, is to make the prices of energy "necessarily skyrocket" to use Obama's words.

that will happen in a recession and happen with NO VIABLE ALTERNATIVE.

and guess which socio-economic group spends the greater % of their income on gas, electricity and energy? the poor and middle class. you know.. that engine of the economy who your boys have been saying needs all the breaks they can get because when they succeed, the economy succeeds?


How about this for a single piece of legislation???? Clintons Luxury Tax was repealed because everyone in their zeal to make "rich people pay their fair share" didn't stop to think about what it means to make condo sales, boat sales, plane sales and jewlery sales plummet... costing countless middle class jobs.

By Jim Tankersley
June 27, 2009
Reporting from Washington -- The sweeping energy and global warming bill passed by the House on Friday was as complicated as it was contentious. The measure started the day at 1,200 pages -- and that was before lawmakers adopted a 300-page amendment.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,7695457.story

Notice the date Einstein?

once again, 25% of the bill being put to a vote before anyone could even read it. No different than the "stimulus bill" except no one got to read that whole thing in its entirety before voting on it.

You fucking idiots are trying to tell everyone how informed you are in a weak attempt to undermine anyone's opinion on the issue and want people to believe you basically sat down and basically read the legislative equivalent of Tolstoy's War and Peace because you care?

Really?

You're lying.

And at least i'm honest in my arguments... with myself and with others. I have my views and i don't need to fabricate facts or lie about who and what i am and what i believe in to make a point.

:2 cents:

What are you talking about? I get my endless supply of electricity from my living room wall. :Oh crap

Opinion does not equal fact...

First of all... I look at all types of news sources... not just liberal ones. If you look at opencongress.org you will see that the majority of the users are conservatives. I read quite a few right wing new sources. Those "manager amendments" aren't secret pages... I watched him go on about that shit on c-span and everything he read is in the changes section on opencongress.org. The funny thing to me is that you believe that shit.

I read the bill. Not only that... I listened to the hearings and debate about it on c-span. So whatever... it's just like the stupid motherfuckers that said there was $30M to protect a mouse during the stimulus bill debate. 99% of the shit they say is bullshit.You say I am bending facts... but that isn't the truth... the people who are bending the facts are the GOP.

No you are not honest... you are just repeating what the media is saying (which is a parroting of the GOP talking points)... I showed you the bill and all of the changes that were made to it... if you can't discern the truth of the matter that is your problem. You would just rather believe the same people that have been lying to you for years over reading the facts for yourself like I do.

according to nation-x.... making your energy costs "skyrocket" isn't really going to hurt you or the economy at all. apparently, neither is the fact that all companies are going to pass these new expenses to you when you buy consumer goods.

Anyway... I am done arguing with you stupid motherfuckers over a GOP talking point. As I posted earlier in the thread... it doesn't matter if I show you the facts... you will just continue to believe the bullshit that the GOP is feeding you just like all of the rest of the sheep that are always posting crap like this. You GFY conservatives are funny to me... because the same motherfuckers that you agree with are the motherfuckers that would put you out of business in a heartbeat... you make me fucking sick. Just because I support this agenda doesn't mean I am a "Obamabot" or whatever you motherfuckers want to call me. There are plenty of issues I don't agree with Obama on... this just isn't one of them.

No... I am saying that isn't going to happen. Why? The bill was changed from it's original form and they are going to give away the Carbon credits instead of charging for them for the first number of years. Mark my words... your bill is not going to "skyrocket".

Fact... Obama himself said energy costs will skyrocket as a direct result of this bill. that in itself is more than enough to form an opinion on... discounting all the news i've read and ALSO watching CSPAN as the House Minority Leader read the last minute 300 pages to everyone just so people would know what they were voting on.

Odd... how anyone who has a different view than you is just brainwashed and uninformed. How convenient. Not surprisingly, it means you really don't have to think for yourself and you can eliminate any critical thinking from the equation since your own opinions become gospel and those who disagree with you are quickly labeled as idiots and heretics, brainwashed by the media.
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Some of us are worried more about an overbearing government than cost. :2 cents:

I am not worried... I will get the last laugh because none of the shit you are saying will happen. :2 cents:

uhmm... you mean "none of the shit OBAMA is saying"??

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I can understand that... but I will never agree that "free market" is the answer. We can disagree on that point. Free market has led to advancement of the "New World Order".

Debating with you is like debating with my cat. It's a waste of time because you both have displayed the lack of ability to understand basic english.

Yea we understand......... anyone who does not mindlessly parrot your Huffpo generated wisdom is a brainwashed sheeple. You endlessly rant about how you have shown people the "facts" and they are stubbornly refusing to accept them........ but we have not yet gotten to the point where unsupported declarations made by starry eyed leftists can be considered objective facts. Maybe Obama can fix that too. :upsidedow

FACT: Obama specifically said energy costs will skyrocket as a direct result of this bill

Can you refute that?

What are you trying to "debate"?

I am talking about the massive economic costs of this bill to the economy and to an economy that is in recession and to poor and middle class people. Obama agrees with me. You don't. Yet you are claiming to agree with the bill... but you say i'm not making sense.

The illusion of free market is what the "NWO" is all about. We have not had a free market in the US for well over 100 years.

I agree... not since the Industrial Revolution when 90%+ of the people became enslaved by employment. :2 cents:

I watched the video and I know what he said there... but that clip doesn't show the complete context of what he said and we both know that he is long winded. You are correct, I agree with the bill because I think it spurns reinvestment in domestic production and will lead us into this century with a goal and purpose. There will be costs in the short term but I think that those are investments that will bear fruit over the long term. If we continue to just talk about freeing ourselves from foreign energy we will achieve nothing. I can't claim to understand every word in the bill... but I got the huge gist of it and it does what it says it does. It creates alot of opportunity for entrepreneurs and investors who invest in domestic energy production and puts a price on doing things the old way. It also provides a reasonable length of time for it's mandates to take effect which guarantees growth in the new energy economy over the next 11 years and provides ample time for existing companies to retrofit. It also creates a market of carbon credits that will earn billions for companies that bank those credits. A smart CEO (of an existing excessive carbon emitting corporation) will invest in these credit banking companies and offset the cost of the retrofit. Look at the us-cap.org site (this isn't a liberal or conservative website) which I posted about here and you will see that the the backers of this bill are NOT all liberals. This bill has wide support among businesses. Just because the Chamber of Commerce is against it doesn't mean much. That organization has been right wing for years and typically follows the crowd.

The bottom line is this... I think the bill is a good idea. You don't but you base all of your arguments on the GOP talking points (that get repeated a million times by every conservative news source on the planet) instead of actually doing the research to decide for yourself. I always tell you that this is what I do but you never believe me. That is your problem not mine.

Listen... I check everybody... I don't believe all of the shit that Democrats say either... I check for myself. It just so happens that the majority of the time the GOP uses bullshit and lies to support their positions instead of just using common sense and facts. I can prove it... and I did with the "300 pages added" lie that you keep repeating. The 300 pages they are referring to are the markup that you can plainly see if you look at the changes to the bill as posted on opencongress.org... pure and simple.

I am sitting here wondering why you keep talking about Huffington Post when I haven't used that blog as a news source in any of our discussion here. You also say that I made "unsupported declarations" which is just stupid really... because I posted EXACTLY how to verify what I am saying but you would rather believe a talking point then investigate for yourself because that is what you seem to be good at.

Where is this change we can believe in?

No kidding.
I like you, but your ideologies are inane.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I like you too and respect your opinion... and I am not going to argue with you either. The beautiful thing about this country is that everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. The other thing about our country for my entire life is that no matter what... it didn't really matter what I thought anyway because it wouldn't make a difference and the whole thing is a sham... anyway. I just know I would like it to not be the way it is has been and I am willing to give a new plan a chance with hope that it works. The whole thing is really beyond me anyway and everyone that posts on this board... none of us have power to change it if we are divided.

Good question! I'd like an answer to this as well.

I can proudly say I was one of the few Americans that wrote and called his Congressman daily to get him to oppose this bill. Sadly, my calls and letters were forgotten come time for the final vote. Did I mention we only lost by 8 fucking votes? 7, for a tie, but good ol' Biden would have come in and fixed that right up :Oh crap:Oh crap

But for those that give a damn about things around you that affect you, I salute you! :thumbsup:thumbsup

Wall Street Journal > Dow Jones & Company > News Corporation > Rupert Murdoch


nough said

Obama is smarter than every webmaster on this board including myself. Very intelligent and compasionate. Let the man do his job, he has a plan and its bigger than we can comprehend. So chill the fuck out. Its gonna be tought to undo the fuck up GW created, but Obama is gonna do his best Im sure.

You just proved he is smarter than you. :2 cents:

All this bill is, is a Government sanctioned ENRON style ponzi scheme. It doesn't really matter what these fools pass anymore there will be loads of past and present political figures facing lynch mobs before it's all over. That is unless they get lucky and some break off and start turning on the others to save their own ass before it gets to that point.

obama thanks...

Not as much as we did when you reelected Bush now that got 80% of the world laughing.

okaaaaay

i love that the guy can tell people point blank.. that in the middle of the worst recession since the depression (his well used words)... that in the middle of accelerating the national debt in a way that's never been done before... in the middle of trying to take over the health care system in another multi-trillion dollar debacle with no way to pay for it... that in the middle of giving almost a trillion dollars to failing companies... the guy can come out and say "Oh, by the way, we are going to cause the cost of energy to sky rocket" and people are so very cool with that.

its like no one understands basic math. how do you think food is grown and transported? how do you think ANYTHING happens in the universe? it requires energy. energy is an expense. the cost of everything you buy is about to go up significantly at a time when the economy is totally fucked, when people are losing their homes, when people are losing jobs and so on ... but that's totally cool. its not just the cost of gas. it means a plane ticket doubles. it means your milk goes up. it means your petro chemical made triple anal jack hawk 9000 anal jackhammer gets more expensive. (well.. thats for nation-x specifically)

I can't imagine living in a more retarded time on this planet.

Republicans ran away completely with spending. So the response after bitching about that for 8 years?????? Is what? ANyone? The response is to put them to fucking shame in a way that defies any sense of reason and break new ground in the irresponsible spending of money that doesn't exist WHILE begging China to PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep buying our debt.

in some respects its a bit interesting... we are definitely witnessing the birth of the Idiocracy.

We know and care more about Michael Jackson and where his doctor is than whether or not North Korea is actually going to fire a missile towards Hawaii or how many people this week were butchered in Iran for actually wanting democracy. Thank God American Idol and Dancing with the Stars isn't in the final weeks right now... 1/2 the world could be waging nuclear war without anyone's knowledge... and its probably just a matter of time until that happens.

Obama is a well spoken retard, just accept this fact!!!
The only difference between Obama and Bush is that Obama knows how to deliver a speech.

Will the real Puppet Master please stand up?


PS: Fuck you to doctor worm, nation-dork, directretard, the"dumb"doc

PS: Obama is a dumb mother fucker who knows how to deliver a speech to a bunch of dumb fuck who hated the previous guy so much that they became blind.
PS: Obama is the ultimate product of the best marketing campaign ever!!!
PS: Obama is the biggest piece of lying shit ever to make it to the White House

PS: Fuck you to all haters

Easy... This bill was all over the media. When MJ died, It was 24/7 MJ and this bill dropped below the radar and no one was really reporting on it.

And now, Obama wants to tax your health care benefits. We are screwed in ways we have never known.

Baaahhhh!
http://www.treah.com/wp-content/uplo...open-small.jpg

Didn't the US invent nuclear technology?

To be fair in the "Republican versus Democrat" argument, McCain was advocating healthcare taxes last year and Obama said no. Now he is tossing around the idea "since he now knows more", as he put it. The truth is you always learn more about a situation as time goes on and modifying your position after you learn of new facts would logically make sense... it's just kind of funny that he actually admitted that the first time around he didn't know what he was talking about, politicians never do that. Of course on the flip side you have to ask, why did you have such a strong opinion about something you knew nothing about?

So you are saying that Obama was talking out of his ass during the election acting as if he "knew" all the facts, then once in the White house its ok with all that voted for him that he was 100% wrong. :winkwink: