Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 16068237)

lets stop pretending this industry makes any effort to protect its content. it doesn't.

and you know what? there are many solutions for that and has been for a long time. and there are also legal and technical solutions for finding your food in your box being sold and for stopping it almost instantly.

Originally Posted by spider_x (Post 16069630)

France has already implemented such measures. Making it illegal to download illegal web stuff. Obviously a HUGE blow to ummm hmmmmm fucking PRIVACY and CIVIL LIBERTIES. So by thinking you're protecting your own content you go and step all over the consumer's shoes. This makes for two extremes. Protectionism vs. Revenue. There will always be revenue, but the worst killer to revenue would be protectionism measures. It's been said before DRM has failed. And governments who enforce such Draconian bullshit are basically shooting themselves in the foot as well as their economy. Just look at what George Bush did to America. Example: Making internet gambling illegal. That's no different from halting a filesharing site. The net MUST remain neutral. One side is getting scared, whimpering in the corner and asking for an even BIGGER buttfucking from the govt. while the other side embraces freedom and adaptation. The key to this crisis is cooperation among this webmaster community as a whole. These threads need to stop criticizing each other. There is a solution if EVERYONE (paysite owners, tgp owners, tube owners, affiliates,etc.) works together to fight an even bigger monster. ADAPT OR DIE. If you keep fighting against each other the BIGGEST asshole, BIG BROTHER, is going to take away porn altogether. Don't let the BIG BROTHER win at all costs. Whatever form XXX assumes over the years, do not criticize it. Let it weather every storm. XXX faced the dot xxx extension and WON. How many countless battles has it won and survived? The war isn't over my friends and the fate of porn rests in each of your hands....
VIVE LA RESISTANCE!

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 16070416)

Some good points.



To shoot content profitably you had to be good and have more markets than just the Internet. Without magazine sales we would ever of got to the size we were. They funded most of the boy girl ad girl girl shoots we did. Shooting 4 or more girls for the Internet is simply not profitable without magazine sales. Add the $4,000 we earn from magazines and it is. Which is why so few content providers will have these scenes. Some do, but not enough. Members love them, girls love doing them and they sell and convert.



To shoot good content you need certain things. A knowledge of the niche, experience handling models, budget and time. Too much content is shot to fill a slot in a site or on a shelf. The blame is simple to place, sponsors do not spend enough on content. The good shooters in the business are there, but not working for the money offered.

Plus being a good photographer does not make you a good pornographer. I'm a good pornographer and crap photographer. Seen some great single shots from boring sets and perfectly shot boring porn videos.



The industry started a lie and spun it out of all control. Non exclusive was saturated. It was told over and over again until all the affiliates believed it and the industry has suffered.

If it was saturated it would of meant it was sold over and over again and for photographers would of been very profitable. But so many of these shooters were unable to make a living shooting for a content store or even for brokering they moved to shooting custom for low prices or got out completely. If non exclusive is saturated in a members area it means the site is successful signing members and keeps buying more and more from the same suppliers. You can't saturate a product that does not sell. Unless you buy a blow out 20 others bought and give it to affiliates. Then it's saturated on TGPs.

So the money that could be spent by content providers shooting for themselves was limited and that hurt members area. Led to people who could not shoot pointing cameras at naked people. Not porn that sells.

Anyone who thinks shooting with a HD camera is a solution is IMO a fool or trying to push a fact that counts nothing to the porn consumers. For many niches HD is very wrong.

To get good sales you have to have something good to sell.

Originally Posted by harvey (Post 16067367)

I posted this here



Not too much to say on my side, I admit it. I was tired and really amazed/outraged on some things that were said in that thread. 6 pages of CRYING AND NONSENSE and still growing. 6 pages which contains data and people trying to justify data (I mean like in OBJECTIVE NUMBERS) with absurd perceptions about why objectivity is subjective, or in other words, why "reality isn't happening"!

Well, guess what: IT'S HAPPENING. Hide your head in the sand if you want and get fucked in the ass in the process. But pretty, pretty, pretty please: STOP CRYING! If you chose to DO NOTHING, you're free to do it, just don't complain because you don't want to face reality.

If you didn't stop to think yet, start right now. Be creative, think outside the box. If you need help, get it. If you gotta pay for it, PAY IT (it will be less than what you already lost for sure, and much less than all what you will lose). If you need to take a weekend with other webmasters to the sole purpose of discussing strategies and/or network, DO IT.

Now, if you think the adult content delivery is limited to what you were doing for the last 15 years... well, you're so totally wrong and off base it's not even funny. Magazines are disappearing, and so will you if you persist on the same path. If you think the word marketing means "buy beers and post at GFY", well... you're getting what you deserve. Things have changed, like it or not.

If you took a big uppercut in your jaw, it's pretty understandable if you take some time to get yourself together. But after that, stand up and fight or run your way home, but pretty, pretty, pretty please: JUST STOP CRYING!!!!

Originally Posted by harvey (Post 16072467)

I know many people uses to slam you on points I think they're quite valid. And these are quite valid points. I know nothing about selling content to magazines, but I assume that's a good aditional income. However, that applies to content (mainly), and even though content is key, the perception of what content is is one of the main factors to get out of the loop.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 16075088)

Originally Posted by mrfrisky (Post 16067416)

Sig spottin.

Btw people should really try and use the wird illegal tubes instead of tubes in general.

And: im still convinced "my kinda tube setup" is biting little chunks oug of the illigal tubes traffic. Lot of sponsors already notuced it and are already cooperating with us.

Said it long time ago, either act up or...

No offense to anyone, but its still funny im gettibg attacked by some instead of being supportef for sticking my neck out ;)

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 16067621)

Tube sites killed Michael Jackson

:(

Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 16075140)

So true nig.

So true....

Originally Posted by harvey (Post 16067904)

hmmm.... regarding to this post I'd simply say "welcome to capitalism, it started around 1780" and that would be enough.

But let's be more specific. What you're saying was been told 1 zillion times in internet's adult business (as well as mainstream). Some history to put things in context:

I started a site in 1997 (sex-o-pedia) which was the direct antecedent of Freeones. Back in that time, they were a few of us, mostly what you could call "link lists". (a side note: in the "6 pages never ending tube yadda yadda" thread someone shown Freeones is one of the sites that didn't lose to tubes, or at least not much. That's because that concept is still great, however it takes a lot of work to do it. But there's another hint for you all)

Then top lists faced and everybody started crying and tearing their hairs (while a few ones started their own top lists). Top lists didn't make any harm, but then came TGP.

With TGPs, everybody starting crying again, this time much louder. At that time, a few of us created the TGP2 concept, for which I run the webmaster's central point (tgp2.net). The idea was that by listing only galleries with 5 clickable thumbs people would want to buy memberships. Everything fine in theory, however, once surfers saw TGPs listing no content they simply went to regular TGPs, and TGP2 failed miserably.

By the same time appeared the "Circle Jerks". No content at all, just "circle jerking" surfers betwee sites until they eventually would get tired and hopefully sign up with a pay site. They got LOADS of traffic. Of course, crap traffic, but still loads. And they disappeared. Some turned into CJ/TGP hybrids and disappeared or turned into full TGP.

Then file sharing... and the same story.

Now, it's tubes... and the same story.

It has been EXACTLY THE SAME SINCE THE BEGINNING. AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE LIKE THAT.

The common thing about this is... TRAFFIC. If you have the traffic, you make the rules.

With tubes, there are some scenarios that could happen. For sure, they'll get increasingly more traffic and kill most paysites in the meanwhile. That's why you see mostly webcams and dating sponsors in tube sites: because that's something they can't offer. Paysites as they're now, with the same business model than in 1997 (believe me, they didn't change a damn thing with a few honorable exceptions), are meant to disappear in its majority. One of the reasons is there are too many paysites for the market (wow....) and those that will survive are those willing to offer something different. I made a post explaining some things on content some time ago based on research. Some people heard, some people disbelief, some people laughed. The same that happened in the 6 pages tube thread: if you show evidence, most people will try to fool around evidence and deny it even if it's biting their own asses. However, although the key is in content, there are many many MANY ways to offer value added services tubes can't offer... for now.

So we get to another tube scenario: the "premium" access. Most tube sites are doing it right now for a small fee (around 10 bucks). Now, with tube sites getting 2 million uniques a day, if they convert 0.1% of that traffic that means $600,000 a month. OK, since most of the traffic is regular visitors, make it only 100,000. I think they'll be able to pay 10, 20 or 30 servers if they want. And form there, everything is gravy.

However, when a new technology shows up, most people gets used to it. So, why pay for the great image quality of the "premium access" when you can see videos with lower quality for free and still wank to those? This is the failure scenario for tubes, they're creating the same technology adequation for surfers that in turn will kill them. Those sites will get increasingly more traffic and they source venues will decrease in an exponential curve (when not directly disappear). So, at some point, they'll have shitloads of traffic and nowhere to direct it, at least places that will pay for it. Then the real "Tube Wars" will start and they will try to kill each other.

I don't have a crystal ball, I'm just telling what always happened and applying a tiny bit of logic.

So, they'll get to a point where they have lots of traffic and a few of them are surviving at this point... and then comes the next scenario: create their own networks of paysites, cam sites, dating sites, whatever. They've all the traffic for free already, and they'll be in a position where they could simply "pull the plug" and start selling like they never did.

Who is going to compete with that? Believe me, none of you, unless you change. Not now, you must change.... yesterday. A week ago. A month ago. You're already late and all your crying and whining didn't help at all, otherwise... you wouldn't be crying!!!!

So, what I said in the first post: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 16075520)

IMO some of the shooters ignored the Net at their peril and now suffering.